600 free test on androgel...possible?

[ecdysone]

My doc told me today he has a patient using Androgel who has a test = 1700 and free test of 600 [Quest] and that it would be a good starting therapy for me.

I told him that unless his patient was eating the Androgel those kind of levels it would be impossible and I would bet he's supplementing with something else.

Has anyone heard of/seen levels anywhere near those as a possibility?

 

[cjw2021]

Could be possible. Gel didn't do much for me though. And the aromatase enzyme is high on the skin.

 

[MeatHead96]

I know some do well on androgel but that does sound high to me. On testim my levels went from 268 to 89 for total test and I felt like shit. Gels suck ass.

 

[randy841]

Never did much for me at all. Even at 2 packets daily at age 25-26 for TRT.

 

[funkymonk]

5gms of 1% gel gave me about 1000ng/pl on LabCorp

Of course, that was:
-1 hour after application
-before I was shut down

Not sure how Quest ranges compare, but unless there test on the skin that the needle goes through for the draw, I don't see how that's happening

If you want Cyp instead of gel, just say you want it for insurance/cost purposes.

 

[DeusMalo]

My doc told me today he has a patient using Androgel who has a test = 1700 and free test of 600 [Quest] and that it would be a good starting therapy for me.

Right - seems that would be very rare. The inserts that come with androgel don't make claims anywhere near that (even at the very upper end they participants in their study are half that). Never heard of such a claim either.

Without taking a ton of space copy/pasting from the androgel insert (it's on their site), at 5g/day, average total test is 555 and at 10mg, average total test is 713. But you don't know baselines, nor estrogen or general sense of how study participants feel.

How about some real world experience with transdermals...

I was on 4 patches of androderm/day (through my GP) and that didn't budge my test levels. So his brilliant idea was move to 10G of androgel daily and my test dropped lower than my checking account. Then I moved to compounded t cyp cream (200mg then 400mg per application), it was better but still didn't do much for me even if I rubbed on my sac... tingled a bit though, was kinda fun.

Even if it would have helped my test, it wasn't worth it. The androderm irritated the fuck out of my skin (as it does about 70% of people who use it) and the androgel I was worried about it rubbing off on my wife/daughter - doc and packaging gave stern warnings about this. Then there was the fact I sweat a lot in general, had to reapply after working out or showering, etc etc - I imagine you know where I'm going with this. Crap - it was a pain in the ass dealing with applying the stuff, standing around 5 minutes waiting for it to dry, etc. Every friggin day. Really doc? You want me to do this rather than just a weekly injection that is quicker than one application of androgel?

I would have saved a lot of time, frustration and money if we just started with t cyp injections.

Tell your doc you want an injection - much more convenient and MUCH more reliable. Once/week rather than daily application. It's much cheaper (I was paying $100 for 10ml of 200mg sandoz t cyp). Much easier to fine tune. Not quite there yet? Move from 100 to 125. Still not there, let's pop it to 150. Too much, back it to 110 and you're done.

 

[DeusMalo]

Oops, almost forgot - I didn't really start feeling good with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) until I talked to Chip and got on a proper Maximus protocol. Been friggin sailing - I'll never look back.

So if your doc doesn't see the light, call my bro Chip.

All hail Maximus!!!

 

[cjw2021]

I'm telling you gel always fails because it converts to estrogen over time more than DHT, thereby canceling out its positive effects for negative ones. It is a silent killer, not so silent if you look at people's labs showing a 200 T level on it.

 

[ecdysone]

I'm telling you gel always fails because it converts to estrogen over time more than DHT

I hear that alot, but it's really hard to find any good clinical studies that prove it. The other problem is that many people's experience was with lower concentrations of test gels/creams spread over a relatively large skin surface area. Then there's the fact that visceral fat contains a higher concentration of aromatase enzymes so the % body fat of the user is important when making comparisons.

I'm thinking that the newer, more concentrated (2% test) transdermal systems applied over a smaller skin area (underarms) might produce completely different long-term results.

 

[funkymonk]

I personally would NOT apply the gel near sweat-prone areas like the armpits. Hormonal cream residue running down my sides? No thanks.

FWIW, my e2 to test wasn't that much different on the gel than the Cyp. I'm about 15% bf now and was 30%+ as a kid (about 10-7 years ago).

Still, having gone to Cyp from the Gel, I couldn't imagine going back ever. The convenience factor is just so much better for me weekly vs. daily.

 

[UserAt204]

I agree with CJ and the other guys. Gel sucks. Docs like to try to start with this but it simply is ineffective and a waste of test powder to make it. Tell your doc you don't want to mess with cream when you could do two simple injects a week and feel normal again. If not find a new doc or start your own testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) program but best option is inject LE test or call chip.

 

[Natehayes]

I was up to 8 pumps a day on the Androgel and did not see much change in my T levels. They went from around 200 to slightly over 300. I think everyone reacts differently, but it seems more people have bad to mediocre results than good results.