A few questions about a cycle

[george585]

Hello!
I hope someone can help me with my questions.
I am 23 yo 5'10'' 167lbs 9.5% bf I have been lifting weights for at least 2 years and never used Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) before.
My goal is gain mass. I also want to emphasize that this is my first and likely be LAST cycle, as I do not really want to use Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for long.

The cycle: Boldenone, Winstrol, Parabolan, and some Test. for 4-6 weeks, then Gonadotropin, Proviron, Clomid for 2-3 weeks as post cycle therapy (pct). Dosage will be medium to low.

Questions considering my current state, this particular cycle, excersising 4-5 times a week and proper diet and supplementation:
1. Is this a more or less a safe cycle in terms of side effects? Are "bitch tits" for instance likely?
2. What sort of gain and sustainable gain should I expect to get (with testo and without it - still not sure if I will take test despite recommendations for first cycle)?
3. Will you recommend taking creatine, HMB, and CLA during cycle, or protein, gainer, bcaas and zma is enough?
4. Provided that I excesise afterwards, maintain proper diet, sleep, etc., and considering I will not take Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) again how much (%) will I be able to retain?
5. Finally I have heard that taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) will prevent you from gaining mass/improving performance naturally in the future. Given this cycle, does it mean that after I finish it, the only way for me to add more mass would be to do another one, or with proper workout and diet given enough time I would be able to gain mass even without taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) again?
Thank you.
George

PS
I have read all the beginner FAQ posts here, and since I could not find answers I decided to post questions here.

 

[ran_azrad]

i even didn't read your post the the end...
imo stay out from aas
or at least do some more research...
ive done 3 cycle before n' didnt use the staff you wanna use.
your to skinny to take Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) at first try to get some more real mass...
you cannot say that this is wiil be your first n' last cycle, after you get some juice you will never wanna stop...
fisrt cycle is only test...
stay off from drugs for now...

 

[george585]

i even didn't read your post the the end...
imo stay out from aas
or at least do some more research...
ive done 3 cycle before n' didnt use the staff you wanna use.
your to skinny to take Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) at first try to get some more real mass...
you cannot say that this is wiil be your first n' last cycle, after you get some juice you will never wanna stop...
fisrt cycle is only test...
stay off from drugs for now...

Thank you for your reply, but if I will stay off from AAS, provided I can gain more mass easily w/o them, then I will not need to use Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) at all, because I do not want to be huge. All I want is to ultimately (within 1-2 years) gain around 20-22 lbs, not more. My intention with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) was that they would get me around 8-10 lbs from first cycle, and the other 10 get naturally or using the 2nd cycle, but then stop taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) after that and simply maintain gains.
I am quite concious about the results I want to achieve.

 

[dead800]

You can do what you what as far as weight gain on your own, you dont need to use anything but eat and train hard.

 

[george585]

You can do what you what as far as weight gain on your own, you dont need to use anything but eat and train hard.

Well, I am hard gainer and towards the end of my potential, that's why I opted for AAS.

And please, I do not want to offend anyone, but can somebody just give their opinion on the questions I asked instead of telling me not to use AAS. Thank you.

 

[dead800]

If you are a your highest level without using you will have to stay on or fall below that point.Say you are 165-170 in 2years there is no way you cant get up to 190 or so.Man you are 23 years old that can be done.If you go on you are still going to have to eat your ass off .You cant build something out of nothing.Dont worry about getting to big it is alot harder than it looks.Everybody has a set point and to stay well above that takes a long time a many cycles.You are 23 use your age now and wait awhile.I dont think you are at your limit.If you make your mind up you are a hardgainner then you cant get there.The term hardgainner is bull,it is a cop out.You may have to eat alot more than others thats life man.This my not be the answer you want but at your age and weight you dont need them to gain 20 or so pounds in 1-2years.Based on the cycle info it is to short and you need to give amounts.Not using test very bad idea.Repost cycle in detail.

 

[george585]

If you are a your highest level without using you will have to stay on or fall below that point.Say you are 165-170 in 2years there is no way you cant get up to 190 or so.Man you are 23 years old that can be done.If you go on you are still going to have to eat your ass off .You cant build something out of nothing.Dont worry about getting to big it is alot harder than it looks.Everybody has a set point and to stay well above that takes a long time a many cycles.You are 23 use your age now and wait awhile.I dont think you are at your limit.If you make your mind up you are a hardgainner then you cant get there.The term hardgainner is bull,it is a cop out.You may have to eat alot more than others thats life man.This my not be the answer you want but at your age and weight you dont need them to gain 20 or so pounds in 1-2years.Based on the cycle info it is to short and you need to give amounts.Not using test very bad idea.Repost cycle in detail.

Thank you for detailed response. Well my main post was that I do not want to go past 190lbs regardless of how and what I use to get there. My idea of using mild Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) was to give myself a push in that direction say to 175, and then do the rest 10-15lbs naturally over the following years (if I can, and if not do a 2nd cycle). Past that 190 mark I do not want to go. So I am not afarid of getting big, it's just that I will not be inclined to continue using Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) to get bigger - that's what you kind of warned against.

Unfrunately I cannot give cycle amounts yet because my instructor did not give them, to me yet, but they will be slightly less than medium. If you could comment on the individual drugs themseleves as well as the results and sustainability of those, and possibly side effects of these specific drugs and whether the post cycle therapy (pct) I outlined is enough, then I will greatly appreciate it.

PS
I don;t quite get why you are the second person who tries to discourage me from using AAS.

 

[dead800]

The reason why is I am 41yrs old and have been using for over 20yrs.That by its self does not make me a expert by any means.I have been around and have seen alot.I am 5'10 235 around 10-12% bodyfat.What you want to do does not take going on a cycle its overkill.Do your own research and come up with what you what to do not what some guy tells you to do.I hate doing this I would rather you put the work in first.Run 400 test cyp or ent weeks 1-12 ,dbol 30mg weeks 1-5. Eat your ass off train hard but smart and you will like the results.I will say this wont be your last cycle.

 

[george585]

The reason why is I am 41yrs old and have been using for over 20yrs.That by its self does not make me a expert by any means.I have been around and have seen alot.I am 5'10 235 around 10-12% bodyfat.What you want to do does not take going on a cycle its overkill.Do your own research and come up with what you what to do not what some guy tells you to do.I hate doing this I would rather you put the work in first.Run 400 test cyp or ent weeks 1-12 ,dbol 30mg weeks 1-5. Eat your ass off train hard but smart and you will like the results.I will say this wont be your last cycle.

I see. But the problem is that these will not be mild then, I mean the side effects of something like dbol would be more pronounced than the side effects of those in my stack...

 

[CaptainAwesome]

just do 500mg/week of test enanthate. theres no need to complicate things.

it wont be your last cycle.

ill give a little more detail.

if you eat plenty and lift 4-5 days a week you can gain a good 30 pounds. after you finish the cycle you will quickly drop the water weight and slowly lose the rest of the weight over time. its not going to change your natural ability to grow or anything but naturally you probably cant maintain what you gain. the harder you work and more you eat the longer you will be able to cling to gains.

 

[george585]

just do 500mg/week of test enanthate. theres no need to complicate things.

it wont be your last cycle.

ill give a little more detail.

if you eat plenty and lift 4-5 days a week you can gain a good 30 pounds. after you finish the cycle you will quickly drop the water weight and slowly lose the rest of the weight over time. its not going to change your natural ability to grow or anything but naturally you probably cant maintain what you gain. the harder you work and more you eat the longer you will be able to cling to gains.

Thank you very much for your response.
I have a few questions though:
1) The idea behind using Winstrol and Boldenone for instance was that they are not as hard inm terms of side effects as test. Now are you saying that I will gain very little if I use just them and thus they are a complete waste?
2) Whay are you saying it will not be my last cycle?
3) "4-5 days a week you can gain a good 30 pounds." - that you mean with 500mg/week of test enanthate?
4) So then, if as you say, over time one will always go to the weight he started with (all cycle gains will be lost) unless supported by continuing with AAS, then there is no point in doing cycle just once? And why would you eventually lose all 100% of your gains if you continue eating and excersising and properly supplementing? Shouldn;t you be able to keep aroun 50% of your gains "forver"?
Thanks.

 

[CaptainAwesome]

Thank you very much for your response.
I have a few questions though:
1) The idea behind using Winstrol and Boldenone for instance was that they are not as hard inm terms of side effects as test. Now are you saying that I will gain very little if I use just them and thus they are a complete waste?
2) Whay are you saying it will not be my last cycle?
3) "4-5 days a week you can gain a good 30 pounds." - that you mean with 500mg/week of test enanthate?
4) So then, if as you say, over time one will always go to the weight he started with (all cycle gains will be lost) unless supported by continuing with AAS, then there is no point in doing cycle just once? And why would you eventually lose all 100% of your gains if you continue eating and excersising and properly supplementing? Shouldn;t you be able to keep aroun 50% of your gains "forver"?
Thanks.

1. your overall mass gains will be less. if you do only Winstrol (winny) & eq you will probably gain some decent weight and harden up and look good. 500mg of test shouldnt give you much more than bloating as far as sides. just make sure to have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) handy and do post cycle therapy (pct).

2. because you are going to be able to change your body in a few months more than you can do in years naturally. its pretty enjoyable.

3. yeah, 500mg/ week can help build mass and its just 1 shot a week.

4. i know lots of people talk about keeping gains. my opinion is that anything you gain on cycle will be lost until you go on your next cycle. the only thing keeping it is your diet and hard work, if you keep that at a high level then you may not fall to your previous weight but thats about how hard you work not what type of gear you use.

 

[dead800]

When you get to a weight well above your own natural level it will take steroids to stay there.You dont fall into this group,you could do this without them.500 test for 12 weeks would be fine.Your sides on this will not be bad.I would not run any anti e's but some people would,I dont feel you need them at this dose,with the dbol added in maybe.

 

[george585]

1. your overall mass gains will be less. if you do only Winstrol (winny) & eq you will probably gain some decent weight and harden up and look good. 500mg of test shouldnt give you much more than bloating as far as sides. just make sure to have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) handy and do post cycle therapy (pct).

2. because you are going to be able to change your body in a few months more than you can do in years naturally. its pretty enjoyable.

3. yeah, 500mg/ week can help build mass and its just 1 shot a week.

4. i know lots of people talk about keeping gains. my opinion is that anything you gain on cycle will be lost until you go on your next cycle. the only thing keeping it is your diet and hard work, if you keep that at a high level then you may not fall to your previous weight but thats about how hard you work not what type of gear you use.

Thank you very much for clarifying these issue for me. Now I have a better pictures, but then
- Sure those fast gains are nice, but I am not going to compete I just simply want to attain certain level in terms of weight and bf% and that level is not very far away, with that respect 1 or 2 cycles should be plenty..
I have to more questions though:
1) So if I were to use the drugs above W/O test, as you say I will "gain some decent weight and harden up and look good" but less than if I do test as well. But then what's wrong with "gaining some decent weight and hardening up and looking good"?
2) I know that it depends on various factors... But I am sort of trying to understand if it's that bad in terms of retaining the gains... You say that any on-cycle gains will be lost unless followed up by another cycle. And you also say that if I excersise and eat well I should be able to retain some of the gains even without continuing Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use. Did I understand you correctly? And how much % of gains do you think, if I do a cycle w/o test or with small amounts of it, I will be able to retain?
Thank you.

 

[george585]

When you get to a weight well above your own natural level it will take steroids to stay there.You dont fall into this group,you could do this without them.500 test for 12 weeks would be fine.Your sides on this will not be bad.I would not run any anti e's but some people would,I dont feel you need them at this dose,with the dbol added in maybe.

Well I prefer to play on really safe side, taking minimal risk. I don't want "bitch tits"! So even though Aromatase inhibitor (AI) may diminish results slightly, I will take it anyways.

 

[dead800]

Anti e's can be hard on your lipid profile but if you want run very low dose adex.I will say this you can be big or you can be cut but both will require drugs.Most guys over 200 plus and that are pretty lean are on.I feel that answers your question about not keeping gains.It takes years and lots of cycles to go well above your natural limit.I dont go real high but I stay on low dose test all the time but I am 41 not 23.I still feel you can get where you want with out it.

 

[dead800]

Look being safe is good but this is not going to kill you.If this is the route you want to take run 500 test 12weeks and do pct.I know you are trying to be safe but relax.Just run that and see where you are in 12weeks.Dont make it so hard.

 

[george585]

Look being safe is good but this is not going to kill you.If this is the route you want to take run 500 test 12weeks and do pct.I know you are trying to be safe but relax.Just run that and see where you are in 12weeks.Dont make it so hard.

Well, I sure know it aint gonna kill me, but I don;t want to experiment with myself that way either. I just want to use Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) once to gain some quality mass that I will be able to retain, that's all. I don;t want to go heavy. I do get that if you take test vs if you dont, you will get bigger gains though.

 

[george585]

Anti e's can be hard on your lipid profile but if you want run very low dose adex.I will say this you can be big or you can be cut but both will require drugs.Most guys over 200 plus and that are pretty lean are on.I feel that answers your question about not keeping gains.It takes years and lots of cycles to go well above your natural limit.I dont go real high but I stay on low dose test all the time but I am 41 not 23.I still feel you can get where you want with out it.

I would like to think so but the question is - how do you know you have not reached your potential? And what, provided good nutrition, supplementation, escersise and sleep, the average monthly gain should be? I feel like that I am pretty close to reaching the limit, and even if I don;t the bottom line for me is:
1. Will one-time taking of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) do something irreversable?
2. Will I be able to maintain 50% of the gains?
3. And finally will I be able to continue growqing naturally after my cycle is over?

If the answer to these is favorable, then I am all for taking them, once. The problem is I don;t know the answer to these questions and was trying to find out them here...

 

[dead800]

I would like to think so but the question is - how do you know you have not reached your potential? And what, provided good nutrition, supplementation, escersise and sleep, the average monthly gain should be? I feel like that I am pretty close to reaching the limit, and even if I don;t the bottom line for me is:
1. Will one-time taking of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) do something irreversable?
2. Will I be able to maintain 50% of the gains?
3. And finally will I be able to continue growqing naturally after my cycle is over?

If the answer to these is favorable, then I am all for taking them, once. The problem is I don;t know the answer to these questions and was trying to find out them here...

Question 1) Yes you will want to do them again.In terms of health NO.2)First cycle no it will take time to build muscle and keep it.3)YES,I am only speaking about you because you are not at your natural limit trust me .If you want to find out just do it,very hard to tell you what you will keep after 1 cycle.I will say you will be bigger than before unless you do something really wrong.This is not rocket science