a question about diet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rodstar]

ok guys
so i ve trying to do some research about diet and i have this question that been popping in my head for some time.
now we all know the the tdee is the number of calories needed / used based on ur daily activity , age and gender.
if u consume this number , you will not gain or lose weight.

the question is if ur tdee is 2000 calories for example and u had all your calories from fats or carbs for example with almost zero proteins, how your body will react? u will lose muscle i assume?? may be your bodyfat will raise and lbm will decrease and stay on the same weight?

please please .. i am not saying i am doing this or ever planning on doing this , i am just trying to understand the mechanism of the body and how iifym works for example.

thnx

 

[Rodstar]

Anyone?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

The simple answer is yes - if protein intake is REALLY low (less than 30g per day) then even at maintenance you may lose some muscle over a long period of time (months not weeks).

Your body is breaking down and synthesizing protein every day, it resynthesizes around 97% of the protein it breaks down.
So you need to make up for the 3% through your diet, this equates to around 30g.
If your training hard then you'll probably need more protein than this since the breakdown rate will be slightly higher.

I should mention that its almost impossible to eat a zero protein diet since carbs & fats do contain small numbers of protein - unless your eating pure table sugar all day.

Your bodyfat mass wont increase, but your bf% will due to lower lbm.

Its more complicated than this but I dont think you want me to be too specific as to how all this happens

 

[Rida5d]

The simple answer is yes - if protein intake is REALLY low (less than 30g per day) then even at maintenance you may lose some muscle over a long period of time (months not weeks).

Your body is breaking down and synthesizing protein every day, it resynthesizes around 97% of the protein it breaks down.
So you need to make up for the 3% through your diet, this equates to around 30g.

I should mention that its almost impossible to eat a zero protein diet since carbs & fats do contain small numbers of protein - unless your eating pure table sugar all day.

Your bodyfat mass wont increase, but your bf% will due to lower lbm.

Its more complicated than this but I dont think you want me to be too specific as to how all this happens

Actually I was waiting for u in specific to see your opinion about the subject , you and 3j as u come from two different schools.

I'm sorry I'm putting my nose into the thread
Is there any difference in a calorie coming from brown rice and sugar or white bread!
I'm asking cuz I know if I ll set my micros , shall I care much about the type of carbs I eat to fill my daily intake?

 

[Rodstar]

The simple answer is yes - if protein intake is REALLY low (less than 30g per day) then even at maintenance you may lose some muscle over a long period of time (months not weeks).

Your body is breaking down and synthesizing protein every day, it resynthesizes around 97% of the protein it breaks down.
So you need to make up for the 3% through your diet, this equates to around 30g.
If your training hard then you'll probably need more protein than this since the breakdown rate will be slightly higher.

I should mention that its almost impossible to eat a zero protein diet since carbs & fats do contain small numbers of protein - unless your eating pure table sugar all day.

Your bodyfat mass wont increase, but your bf% will due to lower lbm.

Its more complicated than this but I dont think you want me to be too specific as to how all this happens

Thnx for the reply , I ll be happy if u can go in details , if u don't mind..

 

[3J]

we are not two different schools of thought on this matter.. he is 100% right.. there are going to be nutritional deficiencies for someone who does not eat protein.. mimicking the diet of a vegan from the looks of it in this situation...

Actually I was waiting for u in specific to see your opinion about the subject , you and 3j as u come from two different schools.

I'm sorry I'm putting my nose into the thread
Is there any difference in a calorie coming from brown rice and sugar or white bread!
I'm asking cuz I know if I ll set my micros , shall I care much about the type of carbs I eat to fill my daily intake?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Is there any difference in a calorie coming from brown rice and sugar or white bread!
I'm asking cuz I know if I ll set my micros , shall I care much about the type of carbs I eat to fill my daily intake?

In terms of building muscle/losing fat - their is no difference as long as you dont take it to the extreme (pure sugar for all your carb intake, only veggies for carbs, etc).

I should add that food like white bread, white pasta, white potatoes (aka fries) are all the BEST choices to replenish muscle glycogen - important for fat loss & training performance.
Yet most guys who eat "clean" avoid all of the white versions since they're not as healthy as brown.

Healthy choices DO NOT equal more muscle/less fat.
I believe your carb choices should be things you enjoy eating & therefore can be part of your diet permanently - not a bunch of stuff you don't really like but are clean choices (this is a recipe for long term failure).

Thnx for the reply , I ll be happy if u can go in details , if u don't mind..

Your body is able to produce all of the non-essential amino acids naturally by utilizing the glucose > atp interaction.
The missing 3% concerns essential amino acids - your body cannot naturally produce these so some form of protein intake is required (again 30g or so if your not training, more of you are).

Now because you'll be consuming plenty of carbs, your body won't start burning any muscle because the preferred energy sources are carbs>fat>protein - in that order.

The problem over the long term is due to the lack of essential aminos from your diet + intense resistance training.
Eventually the amino acids required to repair your muscles after a workout are no longer available. If this continues for months on end, then your body wont have the "tools" necessary to repair your muscles - so you lose it.

Dont mix this up with the "muscle turns to fat" nonsense, that never happens.

Hope this makes sense to you.

 

[Rida5d]

Well, both of u gonna kick my ass for this..
For a strange reason this (iifym) isn't working for me , may be I'm doing something wrong or not calculating my calories accurately.
I myself will stick to the brown rice and chicken breast and steak
For those who had success with iifym , lucky you.. I ll stick to the 3j usual menu.

 

[3J]

im not a fan of iifym... macro timing is important where i come from lol

 

[Rida5d]

im not a fan of iifym... macro timing is important where i come from lol

When u guys are around , it's difficult for a person like me to add anything to such threads ..

Could it be that some people are more sensitive to insulin spikes than other people?
That's the only explanation I have , all I know that I fucked up with iifym and had amazing success with you when we kept it healthy.

I'm not promoting any one here even I'd be honored to .. I'm just sharing my own experience.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

When u guys are around , it's difficult for a person like me to add anything to such threads ..

Could it be that some people are more sensitive to insulin spikes than other people?
That's the only explanation I have , all I know that I fucked up with iifym and had amazing success with you when we kept it healthy.

I'm not promoting any one here even I'd be honored to .. I'm just sharing my own experience.

Lol I'm assuming your referring to our level of knowledge puts people off saying things in case they're wrong?

When you say you fucked up, do you mean you gained/maintained weight?
That's completely down to miscalculating your calories dude, nothing to do with IIFYM.

Insulin resistance/sensitivity plays a part in how many carbs you can cut with - if your resistant then keto type diets work best, if your sensitivity is good then you can have high carbs & still lose fat at a good level.
BUT this is all based on how many carbs, NOT the source of carbs since this becomes close to irrelevant for someone eat less than 100g carbs per day & mixing it with proteins/fats.

For example, I need to limit my carbs drastically when cutting to single digits because I am slightly insulin resistant - but I still follow IIFYM.
On the other hand I have clients who can get shredddd eating 400g carbs per day because their insulin sensitivity is good - but they still follow IIFYM.

If you think your insulin resistant then simply lower the carbs in IIFYM to solve the problem.
I have nothing against clean/healthy eating, but science has come along so much that its factually wrong to say than clean beats IIFYM for fat loss when calories & macros are controlled.

 

[Rida5d]

Lol I'm assuming your referring to our level of knowledge puts people off saying things in case they're wrong?


exactly lool
When you say you fucked up, do you mean you gained/maintained weight?
That's completely down to miscalculating your calories dude, nothing to do with IIFYM.

I gained weight , and you can sit on my love handles and get a snack

Insulin resistance/sensitivtity plays a part in how many carbs you can cut with - if your resistabt then keto type doets work best, if your sensitivity is good then you can have high carbs & still lose fat at a good level.
BUT this is all based on how many carbs, NOT the source of carbs since this becomes close to irrelevant for someone eat less than 100g carbs per day.

here u are right , I had my run with 3j and I looked the best at 100 gm of carbs daily

For example, I need to limit my carbs drastically when cutting to single digits because I am slightly insulin resistant - but I still follow IIFYM.
On the other hand I have clients who can get shredddd eating 400g carbs per day because their insulin sensitivity is good - but they still follow IIFYM.

If you think your insulin resistant then simply lower the carbs in IIFYM to solve the problem.
I have nothing against clean/healthy eating, but science has come along so much that its factually wrong to say than clean beats IIFYM for fat loss when calories & macros are controlled.

thank a lot brother

 

[Rodstar]

I appreciate your responses.
Cheers everyone ..

 

[3J]

Lol I'm assuming your referring to our level of knowledge puts people off saying things in case they're wrong?

When you say you fucked up, do you mean you gained/maintained weight?
That's completely down to miscalculating your calories dude, nothing to do with IIFYM.

Insulin resistance/sensitivity plays a part in how many carbs you can cut with - if your resistant then keto type diets work best, if your sensitivity is good then you can have high carbs & still lose fat at a good level.
BUT this is all based on how many carbs, NOT the source of carbs since this becomes close to irrelevant for someone eat less than 100g carbs per day & mixing it with proteins/fats.

For example, I need to limit my carbs drastically when cutting to single digits because I am slightly insulin resistant - but I still follow IIFYM.
On the other hand I have clients who can get shredddd eating 400g carbs per day because their insulin sensitivity is good - but they still follow IIFYM.

If you think your insulin resistant then simply lower the carbs in IIFYM to solve the problem.
I have nothing against clean/healthy eating, but science has come along so much that its factually wrong to say than clean beats IIFYM for fat loss when calories & macros are controlled.

where i a do agree with rip.. it does have something to do with total carbs.. he and i have different philosophies here.. i do believe the source of carbs play an impact on outcome..

if you truly are very resistant than yes, keto will work better.. there is no doubt about that..

remember, there are many philosophies of dieting.. and the only one thats wrong is the one that specifically doesn't work for you..

 

[Therealkozmo]

Slow digesting carbs vs fast digesting carbs. Ime source of carbs does matter

 

[Rida5d]

Slow digesting carbs vs fast digesting carbs. Ime source of carbs does matter

Zilla won't agree , 3j will like this

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Slow digesting carbs vs fast digesting carbs. Ime source of carbs does matter

No such thing as slow/fast digesting when carbs are combined with protein/veggies/fats - all of which will slow down the digestion of carbs no matter the source.

Example: people don't crash after eating white bread despite it being digested pretty quickly because its most always combined with a source of meat/veggies/fats ie sandwiches.

People do tend to crash after eating cookies/gummy bears/donuts because they combine it with nothing.

Fast vs slow digestion/low vs high gi only matters if you have a weird habit of eating carbs alone on a regular basis


Edit: if your referring to the source of carbs being relevant to insulin resistance while dieting, then that's also incorrect.
I can eat 100g of gummy bears or 100g brown wholegrain rice & still feel like shit afterwards (yes I've tried both) - if you don't react well to carbs then simply changing the source is an exercise in failure.

 

[Therealkozmo]

While I agree with most of you what you said I will let 3j finish. I like to know as much as possible but I won't claim to be an expert.

I'll say this it is reccomended to consume simple sugars/carbs after a workout for insulin spike. I have never heard to consume broccoli for that effect

 

[3J]

Lol... That's funny..

Rip does make a decent point.. Mixing your carbs in with fats especially will slow down your digestion.. But to say that they is no difference between simple glucose and long chained complex carbs just doesn't make sense to me.. However you look at it it takes longer to break down complex carbs than simple ones... This is from my experience and my clients who medal regularly.. I have always used complex carbs and seen issues with simple carbs when I have tried it with clients... There are some. Clients who do perfectly fine on simpler carbs I'm not debating that but it's not for everyone... Two very different schools of thought is all it is.. Again there are many forms of dieting.. The right one is the one that works for you... Im a whole foods and "clean foods" type of guy.. That's my philosophy

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Well said

The only difference between me & 3J's approach is literally clean vs iifym & cardio.
Everything else we agree on - 2 guys who have trained many elite athletes with different approaches that BOTH work.


Kozmo: come on man, you know better than to give me that postworkout insulin brocrap - "oh shit its 15mins past my workout, better get some waxy maize in my system or I won't make any gains".

FYI I could post bunch of science to conclusively prove my point, but the weekend is coming & I don't want to go all geek mode on you guys