AI and Divanil (3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran)

[Paul090]

I hope not to be in the wrong section.
I have a problem: I've read that increasing free testosterone, total testosterone should decrease.
This phenomenon should check with the Divanil (substance extracted from the root of nettle, able to increase the amount of free testosterone, by binding to 'SHBG).
In your opinion, why is that? It is due to the rise in estrogen? Is there a way to prevent the decline of total testosterone?
I was thinking of using the Divanil with an AI.
Should avoid a rise in estrogen, and thus promote the natural production of testosterone.
Is that correct?

 

[halfwit]

Let's clear something up here shall we?

Total testosterone: ALL the testosterone floating around in your body. This includes bound/unbound/biologically available testosterone.
Free testosterone: The portion of testosterone that is not bound by anything. This includes SHBG and Albumin.
Bio-Available testosterone: Includes free testosterone and testosterone that is bound by albumin (proteins in the blood).

Now that we've cleared that up, how can increasing the free testosterone influence the total at all if total already includes free? Sure, decreasing the amount of testosterone that is converted to estrogen can increase it, but we're not talking large values of test being spared here either. ESPECIALLY not with some wonder herb OTC supplement.

Save your money, and just buy food/creatine. If you want to cycle prohormones, I'd keep doing research and see what you can come up with. As I'm one of the AAS guys on the forum, I'm not quite as up to speed on what the PH market looks like - but I'm sure there are quite a few that still peruse these forums that do; and can answer any questions about PH/DS products.

My .02c

 

[SicVic]

I think what hes talking about is a supplement that lowers SHBG and Frees up Testosterone. Like it gets you more free test. I don't think its an actual prohormone that shuts you down. More along the lines sort of like Proviron.

 

[halfwit]

I think what hes talking about is a supplement that lowers SHBG and Frees up Testosterone. Like it gets you more free test. I don't think its an actual prohormone that shuts you down. More along the lines sort of like Proviron.

Except proviron does suppress your HPTA haha. ANY AI can lower your E2 and bring up free/total test. I just don't think it's worth the potential sides like lipid impacts/crushing E2/etc. Heck, broccoli can do this as can zinc. No sense in spending money on OTC stuff when looking for PED's in my humble opinion.

 

[Paul090]

SicVic right! That's what I meant ...

I know that, but from what I read, in the analysis it was found a decrease in total testosterone, while free testosterone increase.
From what I understand, the increase in free testosterone resulted in a higher conversion of f. testosterone into estrogen, which have reduced endogenous testosterone production.
There was a slight suppression of testosterone production, while the share of free testosterone is increased due to the Divanil.

What I want to know is, the suppression in the production of testosterone, it is ONLY due to the increase of estrogen?

If increasing the free testosterone (maintaining unchanged the total testosterone levels), and estrogen remain the same as before, there is a decrease in production? This is what I want to know.

What do you think?

 

[SicVic]

Isn't too much free test bad for you? Or the more the merrier, I haven't really researched
that since my first blood test.

 

[SicVic]

SicVic right! That's what I meant ...

I know that, but from what I read, in the analysis it was found a decrease in total testosterone, while free testosterone increase.
From what I understand, the increase in free testosterone resulted in a higher conversion of f. testosterone into estrogen, which have reduced endogenous testosterone production.
There was a slight suppression of testosterone production, while the share of free testosterone is increased due to the Divanil.

What I want to know is, the suppression in the production of testosterone, it is ONLY due to the increase of estrogen?

If increasing the free testosterone (maintaining unchanged the total testosterone levels), and estrogen remain the same as before, there is a decrease in production? This is what I want to know.

What do you think?

No any exdogenous hormones (ie. Testosterone, Androgens, Prohormones etc...) at a usefull amount will shut down endogonus testosterone production. High estrogen makes it worse, but its your pituitary that senses the amount of exdogonus shit commin in so its like "fuck it, why bust my ass makin this shit when its already comming in I dont need to, Or like holy shit this motherfuckers gonna turn into He-Man, I better stop making this hormone. Gotta regulate this shit" and so on and so on.

 

[MMA732]

yes, also if u do use an ai just space out dosing, do not use daily and keep the dose to a minimum

 

[halfwit]

SicVic right! That's what I meant ...

I know that, but from what I read, in the analysis it was found a decrease in total testosterone, while free testosterone increase.
From what I understand, the increase in free testosterone resulted in a higher conversion of f. testosterone into estrogen, which have reduced endogenous testosterone production.
There was a slight suppression of testosterone production, while the share of free testosterone is increased due to the Divanil.

What I want to know is, the suppression in the production of testosterone, it is ONLY due to the increase of estrogen?

If increasing the free testosterone (maintaining unchanged the total testosterone levels), and estrogen remain the same as before, there is a decrease in production? This is what I want to know.

What do you think?

My understanding is that it is the free testosterone that is subject to conversion by the aromatase (CP450 chain) enzyme, so I don't understand how total testosterone (as it includes free) can be diminished by inhibiting this process of aromatization. It is true that if you increase estrogen, you will suppress your testosterone by means of the negative feedback loop as this is intended by the HPTA. (LH is reduced, which tells the Leydig cells to produce less testosterone.)

If your free test increases, and E2 remains the same - there cannot be a suppression as your feedback loop won't react without an increase of estradiol. Honestly, I don't see the point of this unless you have a very low Free:Total ratio due to an absurdly high SHBG or pituitary issue. But that's just my opinion.

My .02c

 

[Paul090]

Ok, now everything is clear.
There is one thing I want to know if the free testosterone goes beyond the values, there should be a slight suppression?

As AI think I buy the white button mushroom extract. It is said that should not cause HPTA sides ((2S) -2 - (3,4-dihydroxyphenyl)-7-hydroxy-2 ,3-dihydrochromen-4-one and 2 - (3,4-dihydroxyphenyl) - 5 ,7-dihydroxy-4-chromenone)
Divanil 1600 mg and 600 mg of AI (every 8 hours, ie 200-200-200).
With a low level of estrogen, I have also been an increase in the production of testosterone.