AI Unnecessary?

[Methodology]

So I was over on Steroid.com forums earlier, and there was numerous threads open that said that aromatase inhibitors will actually hinder your gains on any test cycle, I know all of the users want all the newbies to be safe, but this is the kind of information that needs to go out as well, its good to have on-hand for gyno, bloating, and other associated side effects, but if you don't have any sides or aren't at risk of gyno, then what is the sense at hammering first timers for not having them, like if your prone to gyno I could understand, but if I'm looking at even a couple pounds of extra muscle post post cycle therapy (pct), this is a pretty huge deal. From what I read, the users that didn't have symptons, and didn't use AIs because of it, had gained much much more mass than with an AI.

 

[halfwit]

So I was over on Steroid.com forums earlier, and there was numerous threads open that said that aromatase inhibitors will actually hinder your gains on any test cycle, I know all of the users want all the newbies to be safe, but this is the kind of information that needs to go out as well, its good to have on-hand for gyno, bloating, and other associated side effects, but if you don't have any sides or aren't at risk of gyno, then what is the sense at hammering first timers for not having them, like if your prone to gyno I could understand, but if I'm looking at even a couple pounds of extra muscle post post cycle therapy (pct), this is a pretty huge deal. From what I read, the users that didn't have symptons, and didn't use AIs because of it, had gained much much more mass than with an AI.

I use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) even though I'm not gyno prone because high levels of estradiol causes far, far more than just gynecomastia. It elevates blood pressure, decreases mental acuity, can aggravate the prostate, cause acne flareup, cause emotional distress, cause fatigue as well as a ton of other lesser known problems (It's a known carcinogen btw). While we DO need some estrogen to maintain healthy bones and support proper function, I take little stock from guys that gauge mass based on weight. (Since aromatization causes water weight.)

I won't begrudge anyone that doesn't take an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but I won't feel sorry for them either when they do have problems related to high E2. It just seems asinine to me to allow something that can wreck havoc on your body because you might gain an extra pound of body mass over the course of a cycle, but that's just my opinion.

My .02c

 

[kaname]

I think you're a bit confused. Firstly you will lose more of your gains post cycle by not running an A.I. as a lot of the weight will be water gains. Also things such as higher bp will occur by not running an A.I., which can lead to a host of other problems which are a lot worst than gyno. Lastly (more to mention here but I just don't have the inclination to go into more detail,) but lastly no a couple more pounds for most isn't a huge deal unless a person is competing at a pro level, and as I said you will lose more during post cycle by not running an A.I.

This isn't something new it has been talked about here in depth. The information isn't hidden. And I'm curious to know how one knows they aren't at risk for the major sides until they find out that they are at risk, which by then it's too late, which is why we say "at least have the A.I., on hand."

I'm actually a bit disturbed that one would read info else where then come here and berate members for their recommendations, before completing the research. As it stands you read something then charged in here, without complete information.

edit: I see Vino went into a bit more detail about sides.

edit#2: And while I'm at it, key words in your post was "first timers." Most don't know the needle from the syringe (exaggerating), point being they need to go in as safe as possible, as they learn their body. Just like you start at a low dose of Adex for example and slowly increase as needed, you can also slowly decrease, until soon you see you are running a cycle without it...if that is what you choose to do. And lastly as I said this has been talked about plenty here. No one is hiding the information, which is where "research" comes into play.

 

[Methodology]

I think you're a bit confused. Firstly you will lose more of your gains post cycle by not running an A.I. as a lot of the weight will be water gains. Also things such as higher bp will occur by not running an A.I., which can lead to a host of other problems which are a lot worst than gyno. Lastly (more to mention here but I just don't have the inclination to go into more detail,) but lastly no a couple more pounds for most isn't a huge deal unless a person is competing at a pro level, and as I said you will lose more during post cycle by not running an A.I.

This isn't something new it has been talked about here in depth. The information isn't hidden. And I'm curious to know how one knows they aren't at risk for the major sides until they find out that they are at risk, which by then it's too late, which is why we say "at least have the A.I., on hand."

I'm actually a bit disturbed that one would read info else where then come here and berate members for their recommendations, before completing the research. As it stands you read something then charged in here, without complete information.

edit: I see Vino went into a bit more detail about sides.

Well I still take my adex, I'm not going to stop bc of an article. But I find it asinine to just assume your estrogen is high, I know it would go down a more costly route of continously keeping track of your bloodwork, if you knew what you were doing, I can see you benefiting from limited access to an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). As I have seen, this forum is fairly stern on knowledge and not jumping to conclusions on information. I wouldn't phase out Aromatase inhibitor (AI) experimentation though, I would personally find a sequence of dosing that works best for me, I'm sure the EOD thing can be open to interpretation, where E3 or E4 days could still have a reasonable effect while not tapering estrogen levels too far down.

 

[FerrariF50]

we don't take aspirin throughout the day in case we might get a headache

personally I wouldn't bother if you're not prone

its just another drug entering your system that could stress out your body

have some on hand though and be quick to use if you need it - good luck

 

[halfwit]

Well I still take my adex, I'm not going to stop bc of an article. But I find it asinine to just assume your estrogen is high, I know it would go down a more costly route of continously keeping track of your bloodwork, if you knew what you were doing, I can see you benefiting from limited access to an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). As I have seen, this forum is fairly stern on knowledge and not jumping to conclusions on information. I wouldn't phase out Aromatase inhibitor (AI) experimentation though, I would personally find a sequence of dosing that works best for me, I'm sure the EOD thing can be open to interpretation, where E3 or E4 days could still have a reasonable effect while not tapering estrogen levels too far down.

I think you're being reasonable and as long as you make informed decisions based on blood work on top of how you're feeling, you should be okay. The one major problem with the AAS scene is that it's full of folks trying to reinvent the wheel, sometimes making risky or just flat-out stupid decisions based on little scientific data. This is one of the reasons why I like 'ology, many of the posters here have TONS of real world experience and are always open to sharing their ideas/results.

I do agree with you that it's FAR easier to bring E2 levels down than to bring them back up once you've crushed them. As we're all different in how we react, it's pretty hard to make a blanket statement for everyone that reads this site. This is pretty much why the stickies are somewhat conservative in nature and always leave room for experimentation as you stated.

Happy Friday!

 

[SolomonGrundy]

we don't take aspirin throughout the day in case we might get a headache

personally I wouldn't bother if you're not prone

its just another drug entering your system that could stress out your body

have some on hand though and be quick to use if you need it - good luck

^ worst advice you can give someone on the use of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) meds ^

once you exceed normal levels your body will attempt to balance and convert the extra T you want freely circulation to help build muscle into Estrogen, using Aromatase inhibitor (AI) keeps the estrogen side effects away and the testosterone rations as we want them.

Always use Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when using AAS regardless of your Gyno sensitivity

 

[sadpanda]

made it through most of my first cycle without an AI

added some Dbol at the end got fucked with gyno loool

i still have a small amount left, but meh.

Now i will always run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just incase to control E2, not a large amount like for example, im doing 1mg Adex E4D

 

[SolomonGrundy]

made it through most of my first cycle without an AI

added some Dbol at the end got fucked with gyno loool

i still have a small amount left, but meh.

Now i will always run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just incase to control E2, not a large amount like for example, im doing 1mg Adex E4D

look up the half life and effectiveness in males for your meds, you're on a E roller coaster. lower more frequent dosing will establish better results

 

[Methodology]

I think you're being reasonable and as long as you make informed decisions based on blood work on top of how you're feeling, you should be okay. The one major problem with the AAS scene is that it's full of folks trying to reinvent the wheel, sometimes making risky or just flat-out stupid decisions based on little scientific data. This is one of the reasons why I like 'ology, many of the posters here have TONS of real world experience and are always open to sharing their ideas/results.

I do agree with you that it's FAR easier to bring E2 levels down than to bring them back up once you've crushed them. As we're all different in how we react, it's pretty hard to make a blanket statement for everyone that reads this site. This is pretty much why the stickies are somewhat conservative in nature and always leave room for experimentation as you stated.

Happy Friday!

I'm definitely going to just play it by ear, I'm not going to completely stop taking it, I paid for it, and have already started taking it, but it doesn't mean I need to have a continuous flow of it in my veins. I've had reasonably large amount of estrogens flowing without any real side effects when I was on progestrone/phytoestrogens for health reasons (its incredibly great for your prostate health), I was basically on a manual shutdown, and my sex drive was still through the roof, I've never experienced any unwanted fatty tissue buildups bc of my low BF% at the time, so its basically why I'm up for experimentation, I know my body can handle it, but someone might think they could too and it would just throw their hormones out of whack, so I'm def not recommending anyone follow in my footsteps, but if you have knowledge of what your doing, its totally possible.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

I'm definitely going to just play it by ear, I'm not going to completely stop taking it, I paid for it, and have already started taking it, but it doesn't mean I need to have a continuous flow of it in my veins. I've had reasonably large amount of estrogens flowing without any real side effects when I was on progestrone/phytoestrogens for health reasons (its incredibly great for your prostate health), I was basically on a manual shutdown, and my sex drive was still through the roof, I've never experienced any unwanted fatty tissue buildups bc of my low BF% at the time, so its basically why I'm up for experimentation, I know my body can handle it, but someone might think they could too and it would just throw their hormones out of whack, so I'm def not recommending anyone follow in my footsteps, but if you have knowledge of what your doing, its totally possible.

More E = less T

 

[FerrariF50]

we can run test and other steroids for years at a time without negative side effects

I've ran arimidex for few months at a time and my cum turned yellow

that's enough for me to run on an as needed basis.

running anti estrogens can surpress estrogen so much that when you come off estrogen levels sling-shot higher in a reactionary response and can cause side effects like acne and tits that you wouldn't of had otherwise

 

[Methodology]

More E = less T

Completely understandable, but I'm already on Dbol, regular Cialis/Vialis use, and the Test E is putting through the roof, I've felt quite ill for the past days though, after I took my Adex I started to feel queesy, I thought that I might be shutting down my estrogen honestly, I'll probably go back on regular next week when my Dbol is gone, since I won't have that extra boost till I start my Anavar (var) next month.

 

[juced_porkchop]

So I was over on Steroid.com forums earlier, and there was numerous threads open that said that aromatase inhibitors will actually hinder your gains on any test cycle, I know all of the users want all the newbies to be safe, but this is the kind of information that needs to go out as well, what the heck are you talking about? are you talking its good to have on-hand for gyno, bloating, and other associated side effects, but if you don't have any sides or aren't at risk of gyno, then what is the sense at hammering first timers for not having them, like if your prone to gyno I could understand, but if I'm looking at even a couple pounds of extra muscle post post cycle therapy (pct), this is a pretty huge deal. From what I read, the users that didn't have symptons, and didn't use AIs because of it, had gained much much more mass than with an AI.

BLOAT AND WATER IS NOT GAINS! it is STUPID NOT to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle., its NOT just about gyno ITS ABOUT HEALTH!
high estrogen is not healthy, raises risk of stroke and many other things.
Use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle FROM THE START, when using test amounts over Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) amounts.

you are wrong and I am over at steroid too, don't expect many to agree with you.
AI on cycle SERMS on hand in extreme cases to use with Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if needed or during raises of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to combat estrogen (while waiting for the added dose to take effect)

in summery: its not all about gains or gyno, Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle is ALWAYS optimal, just because you don't "feel" something wrong, doesn't mean there isnt a ticking time bomb in the inside. don't be vain..

 

[juced_porkchop]

Completely understandable, but I'm already on Dbol, regular Cialis/Vialis use, and the Test E is putting through the roof, I've felt quite ill for the past days though, after I took my Adex I started to feel queesy, I thought that I might be shutting down my estrogen honestly ?? there is no such thing as that, I'll probably go back on regular next week when my Dbol is gone, since I won't have that extra boost till I start my Anavar (var) next month.

AI on cycle is the way to go.

 

[juced_porkchop]

we can run test and other steroids for years at a time without negative side effects

I've ran arimidex for few months at a time and my cum turned yellow

that's enough for me to run on an as needed basis.

running anti estrogens can surpress estrogen so much that when you come off estrogen levels sling-shot higher in a reactionary response and can cause side effects like acne and tits that you wouldn't of had otherwise

all of the above in MY op, respectfully is BS..

your going into post cycle therapy (pct) when you stop Aromatase inhibitor (AI), what estrogen rebound? CUM? i would not base that on why to not use an AI...

 

[Brizza60]

What i always say its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[juced_porkchop]

I'm definitely going to just play it by ear, I'm not going to completely stop taking it, I paid for it, and have already started taking it, but it doesn't mean I need to have a continuous flow of it in my veins. I've had reasonably large amount of estrogens flowing without any real side effects when I was on progestrone/phytoestrogens for health reasons (its incredibly great for your prostate health), I was basically on a manual shutdown, and my sex drive was still through the roof, I've never experienced any unwanted fatty tissue buildups bc of my low BF% at the time, so its basically why I'm up for experimentation, I know my body can handle it, but someone might think they could too and it would just throw their hormones out of whack, so I'm def not recommending anyone follow in my footsteps, but if you have knowledge of what your doing, its totally possible.

unless you show me blood work on your 500mg test ew and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) proving your are ok in the E2 department I stick with my statements. there is no "playing by ear" there is alot that can go on that you WONT see or feel, doesnt mean its not hurting you man. be safe

 

[juced_porkchop]

^ worst advice you can give someone on the use of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) meds ^

once you exceed normal levels your body will attempt to balance and convert the extra T you want freely circulation to help build muscle into Estrogen, using Aromatase inhibitor (AI) keeps the estrogen side effects away and the testosterone rations as we want them.

Always use Aromatase inhibitor (AI) when using AAS regardless of your Gyno sensitivity

agreed!

 

[Methodology]

BLOAT AND WATER IS NOT GAINS! it is STUPID NOT to use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle., its NOT just about gyno ITS ABOUT HEALTH!
high estrogen is not healthy, raises risk of stroke and many other things.
Use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle FROM THE START, when using test amounts over Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) amounts.

you are wrong and I am over at steroid too, don't expect many to agree with you.
AI on cycle SERMS on hand in extreme cases to use with Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if needed or during raises of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose to combat estrogen (while waiting for the added dose to take effect)

in summery: its not all about gains or gyno, Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle is ALWAYS optimal, just because you don't "feel" something wrong, doesn't mean there isnt a ticking time bomb in the inside. don't be vain..

I'm not being vain or trying to argue, I just want to find a more moderate dose that doesn't make me feel like shit everytime I take it (is it supposed to make you feel like your gonna barf everytime you take it?), some people take as much as a 1mg, others .125, I'm just looking for what works for me, I'm not saying I'm going to stop taking it, and totally not advising anyone to do so either, pretty everywhere everyone says other things, this is the only forum I've noticed where a good defense makes a strong offense. Best way to get advice is to ask questions though and probe the ones that know what they are doing. I definitely know better than to go against the advice of a veteran.