Anti E's; Has This Issue Been Resolved???

Brett_Weir

New member
Yes, i hesitated to put this up.......However, i just read my threads i subscribed to and on two different ones this isssue directly or indirectly was being discussed...............I just don't feel it is settled or resolved..........If this is too simplistic or boring for you, than by all means please help clear up the question of anti-estrogen use..........It sure as hell is better than gyno or estrogen related fat deposits.......Yes, fat deposits don't be suprised because Testosterone aromatization will cause fat deposits on your body..............Everytime i say this somebody raises their eye-brows in disbelief......

Here is a write-up about the use of anti-estrogen Arimidex......I noticed it recommended several times this morning and it also can raise cholesterol levels........................As BigBiceps mentions...

My other question is can Nolvadex be a good alternative as an aromatase inhibitor, as opposed to Arimidex if you get elevated cholesterol levels with Arimidex?????

note: I think this is a good read because the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is not agreed upon either.......Any and all comments welcome, thanks.....


"I finally got a few days at home and wanted to pass along what I have learned from some of the best athletes and Doctors who work with athletes in the US.

Now, before the I went back to active duty Marine Corps, I was competing to get that IFBB card. And in my endeavors, I learned that if I was going to be a pro, I was going to have to stay "on" year-round. That's what I did. I stayed on for several years straight. I was looking massive, got up to 245 @ anywhere from 4-5% and felt great. I was winning shows and was even communicating regularly with several well known IFBB pro's.

Everything was in line until I got a routine physical which included labwork. The next day I get a call from my doc who said "man you need to get in here quick." As soon as I got there, they immediately drew more blood, and this time had it rushed to the local hospital for emergency testing. The results:
LDL WAAAAAAY over 200
HDL in the teens
Triglicerides beyond belief!

I was literally in the "worst best shape" of my life. I was facing a heart attack, stroke, arthersclerosis and heart disease. Not good news for the future.

At this point, I began some serious changes to my diet and Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) usage thanks to several TOP notch docs and an IFBB pro who I respect a great deal.

What did I do? Well, first off let me dispell the myth that all pro's use all year. That is simply not true. In fact, the pro I know cycles just like the rest of us. But, this guy has great genetics, and trains like a mad man. The rest of the pro's actually do stay on year-round. Again, not smart!

The Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) changes:
8 WEEKS ON = 8 WEEKS OFF!!!!!! No exceptions!
In the last week of the cycle 2,000IU Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was injected I.M 3 times per week for three weeks.
Also, 20mg Nolvadex is included for six weeks.
I know many will say "that's too much HCG." NOT!!! The doc I know who works with all these big names sometimes has to use upwards of 7,500 iu 3X week for 3 weeks, 40mg Nolvadex and 100mg Clomid as well. If it's really bad, factrell may be added.
Also, let's put this "it's too much HCG" into context. If you are on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), you only will get a 200mg shot of test cyp every two weeks. That is a clinical dose of test. What do we use? 1,000mg PER WEEK! So, let's shitcan the "it's too much HCG" theory.

The Diet change:
I don't know if you all know this or not, but carbs are most of the time the root of the fucked up lipids problem. (As well as Armidex, Femara and Winstrol) In fact, many guys I know eat tons of red meat with little carbs and have normal lipid panels. It is when you add in too many carbs that shit can go from bad to worse.
The 8 weeks off diet:
For 8 weeks you will need to considerably cut carbs down to around 60 per day while keeping your protein intake high and your GOOD fats intake moderate. I know, how am I going to grow like this? Guess what? YOU'RE NOT! Remember, you were "on" for 8 weeks to grow. Now, you're "off" for 8 weeks to recover. In bodybuilding, you are either building mass or cutting. There is no in between. Sorry.
Last, after 4-5 weeks of being "off" coupled by your new eating habits, your lipid panel should fall well within the normal range. I hope this helps. Please add to this thread any and all helpful information."

by BigBiceps......
(BigBiceps; Post-Cycle Recovery & Anti-Estrogen Problems)
 
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Good post and I agree there are still some questions in my mind about this subject especially after reading the threads this morning. I have not run anti-e or anti-a during my cycle but I am considering running somthing with my next cycle (just orderd l-dex). If anyone has an opinion or a better approach please post up.
 
saturn said:
Good post and I agree there are still some questions in my mind about this subject especially after reading the threads this morning. I have not run anti-e or anti-a during my cycle but I am considering running somthing with my next cycle (just orderd l-dex). If anyone has an opinion or a better approach please post up.

I read your post earlier......Maybe i am just paranoid but i think this is an important issue.......

I would like to run Arimidex during my cycle.....The problem is i get elevated cholesterol so i need an alternative...... The bro in the article was working on his IFBB card.......He went to the doctor and found he was almost a walking dead man......My question is Nolvadex good to run throughout if Arimidex is not your best option?????
 
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Good post Bro, I had problems with my cholesterol when using femara. So I'm going to go without anti-e on this to see how it goes.

JohnnyB
 
Brett_Weir said:
My other question is can Nolvadex be a good alternative as an aromatase inhibitor, as opposed to Arimidex if you get elevated cholesterol levels with Arimidex?????

Nolvadex isn't an aromitase inhibitor - it blocks the receptors. Yes, it can be used effectively as the only anti-estrogen and it may even aid in keeping cholestrol levels normal.

Also, enjoy that front you got from our androgenous new "friend".
 
The good post was made by BigBiceps...........Here are the things he contributes to causing his elevated cholesterol levels...(As well as Armidex, Femara and Winstrol).

Thanks JohnnyB.....Any other thoughts????? Any thoughts on Nolvadex for the long haul???
 
Re: Re: Anti E's; Has This Issue Been Resolved???

GreasyGreek said:
Nolvadex isn't an aromitase inhibitor - it blocks the receptors. Yes, it can be used effectively as the only anti-estrogen and it may even aid in keeping cholestrol levels normal.

Also, enjoy that front you got from our androgenous new "friend".

I knew it was an anti-estrogen similar to Clomid....and gyno preventative....You answerd my question??? Can it be used in place of Arimidex if you have elevated cholesterol from Arimidex??? Thanks.....
 
Nolva blocks the estrogen receptors, so you'll still have estrogen in your system and it will be elevated if your on AAS. So it well prevent gyno, but won't stop the production of estrogen.

I don't know much about proviron, I looking into it more. I've heard it not a good estrogen inhibitor, but there could be a possability of the combo of nolva and proviron doing the trick. I'll look into it more and let you know.

JohnnyB
 
nolv can be used to help the lipid profile, but as already stated it will not inhibit estrogen formation, therefor you'll still get bloated, estro fat patterns, etc... If you are on high doses of aromatizable gear, however, this warrants the use of a good AI, as nolvadex may very well not be strong enough to prevent gyno.
 
rj420 said:
nolv can be used to help the lipid profile, but as already stated it will not inhibit estrogen formation, therefor you'll still get bloated, estro fat patterns, etc... If you are on high doses of aromatizable gear, however, this warrants the use of a good Aromatase inhibitor (AI), as nolvadex may very well not be strong enough to prevent gyno.

Just for the sake of conversation.....What doses would warrant an AE like Arimidex......Keeping in mind all the factors like a screwed up Lipid profile........
 
Good info so far guys you already answeres some of the topics I was unclear about.
Keep the opinions coming.
 
One other question......Well two....What dosages of Testosterone and Eq. combination warrant Arimidex or Femera??? Secondly, would keeping the dose of Arimidex low help out the problem of elevated cholesterol levels, thanks.......
 
saturn said:
Good post and I agree there are still some questions in my mind about this subject especially after reading the threads this morning. I have not run anti-e or anti-a during my cycle but I am considering running somthing with my next cycle (just orderd l-dex). If anyone has an opinion or a better approach please post up.

Bump for a better approach or combination and what about Proviron?????
 
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One point I'd like to make is, I don't think Arimidex necessarily raises one's total cholesterol, it lowers the HDL, and leaves the LDL pretty well intact, which puts the ratio of good to bad out to lunch, so to speak.
 
Here is a pm that is so good i had to post....Thanks my man...

From rj420,
"I'd go with .25mg/adex/day. I bloat easily also. If that dosage doesn't do it, then up it to .5mg/day. Your cholesterol may be elevated during the cycle from the actual steroid and also from the lowering of estrogen levels. Once you come off they should return to normal. Just practice being healthy with other aspects to help offset the negative lipid effects. Don't eat a lot of saturated fats and keep carbs clean. Eat oatmeal daily (helps some), and maybe take 10mg/nolvadex throughout if you are really concerned. You should be okay. .25mg/day should be enough, as the test is all you really need to be concerned with. EQ, even at high doses aromatizes very little."

Keep them coming any fyi put it up.......
 
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the next generation anti estrogens ;ike arimidex , femara , etc. have become so common and cheap [ generics ] they are way overused every pimple faced kid doing 400 mg a week thinks he needs a mg of arimidex a day so he wont bloat or get gyno , a lot of us have gotten into this habit , every person is different but most of us could run a 600 mg test /600 mg eq cycle with no gyno and very little bloat but we pop the antis instead of just having nolvadex on hand for emergencies , personaly dbol is the only thing ive tried so far that bloated me enough to use arimidex and then i ran .5mg on mon/wed/fri only sure i had a small amount of bloat but i also have been able to keep my cholesterol below 150 , by just running the arimidex through the 6 weeks of orals my cholesterol has remained in check but my bloat has remained reasonable
 
These two studies were performed on men - Anastrozole was the aromatase inhibitor used.

from:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/7/2370

... eight males (aged 15–22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [13C]leucine and 42Ca/44Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex (1 mg ED)
...Anastrozole treatment was well tolerated by all subjects. Glucose and insulin concentrations remained unchanged during these studies, as did plasma lipid concentrations, blood chemistries, and cell blood counts...



from:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/2869


Fifteen eugonadal men over 65 yr were treated for 9 weeks with 2.0 mg/day of anastrozole, an aromatase inhibitor
... After 9 weeks of aromatase inhibition, total cholesterol decreased significantly by 7 ± 10% (P = 0.016), and HDL cholesterol decreased by 7 ± 9% (P = 0.013). Calculated LDL showed a small decrease that was not statistically significant ...


You should be more concerned about the effect of AS on plasma lipids.
 
Good info guys......A word to the wise...............Know what you are taking and why and some things may not be necessary but have Nolvadex on hand......I am coming back for a complete read, thanks......
 
Since some expressed interest in this.......I e-mailed a friend of mine.....VDC.....I decided to give it to you the way i receved it, so any fyi is appreciated:

Ideas yea I got some,,,Arimidex doesn't raise cholesterol
levels,,,Please
listen,,,Cholesterol is normally used to make any steroid the body
uses
(estrogen is a steroid also,,,but not an anabolic one),,,Because
elevated
androgen levels shut down production of Test and Ari stops the
aromatisation of Test then theres extra cholesterol left over,,,Bill
Roberts says Clomid helps with cholesterol levels,,,also Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) causes
Test to
form,,,so some Cholesterol will be used for that,,,So I'd recommend
doing
Clomid and Ari along with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for the length of the cycle,,,This
should
keep the cholesterol levels down and stop any water retention(the
cause of
bloat and High Blood Pressure),,,BTW I don't use Nolva, but I use Ari
and
HCG for the length of the cycle,,,How's that sound???VDC

by VDC.......
 
The above mentioned use of Clomid i have heard before but it might be impossible for some because the side effects would be unbearable.........
 
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