Anybody ever tried Test only cycles below 500mg/wk?

[Fred87]

Im seeing people suggesting not below 500mg/week for first cycles, and someone goes even higher..
Now, anybody tried Test cycles below 500mg a week?
Some people say the gains are legit @ 400 or even 300, from my experience I gained pretty damn well with just 250mg every 5th day.
Could it be that Im using pharma grade test or could it be you are gonna do well with low doses if you are a small dude?
Or some kind of affinity with drugs, dunno..
Whats your thoughts on this topic?

 

[MJF]

If you were being honest, do you think your low test cycle was more of a motivation to work harder and eat better? Or did you continue to do everything else the same and still made good gains?

I'm not saying you can't make gains on 400mg per week test, cause you can. Just curious about your effort before vs during your cycle.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/153723-300mg-vs-600mg-testosterone.html I read this sticky pretty thoroughly when deciding my dosages at first.

 

[tbonexl]

A lot of newbs either never trained before, don't eat properly, and/or never used gear. I've seen a lot of newbs get huge gains without gear by just eating right and having a dedicated training regimen. So in theory, you would think that you can gain with low dose cycles. Really you can. The problem is most want instant success and replace gear with poor diet and training. 12 weeks go by and they're happy with their not so impressive results. An older guy just posted a couple weeks ago about his 9 month transformation. He wasn't on high doses of anything and the pics don't lie. Guy is 47 I believe and has a really good physique.
The mainstream mentality these days is more is better. More gear, more training, more more more.. one member posted his 3 hr gym routine that most wouldn't do in two to three days of training. Overtraining for sure and with mostly machines. Probably has the mindset that he's on gear and training like it's a part time job will get the gains. Not so. You grow outside the gym. Nutrition and sleep is key to growth. Not grams of gear and hrs of training. You can have an almost half assed half hr workout and see gains provided your nutrition and sleep are in check. A lot of people over do it these days...

 

[Roush]

Im seeing people suggesting not below 500mg/week for first cycles, and someone goes even higher..
Now, anybody tried Test cycles below 500mg a week?
Some people say the gains are legit @ 400 or even 300, from my experience I gained pretty damn well with just 250mg every 5th day.
Could it be that Im using pharma grade test or could it be you are gonna do well with low doses if you are a small dude?
Or some kind of affinity with drugs, dunno..
Whats your thoughts on this topic?

Its gonna depend on the said persons natural testosterone levels. Say a guy has been training for a year, and diet is spot on, and he has a natural testosterone level of 950. Say he jumps on 300 mg a week of test for 12 weeks, his gains may be so so, because his test levels are not pushed that much higher then when he was natural (around double).

Now take a guy with the same info stats and diet, only he has a natural test level of 300 or so, well when he gets on 300 mg of gear he is now training with 7 times the amount of testosterone he has been used to. His gains will probably be pretty obvious in 12 weeks times.

so apart from newb gains, if we are talking gear only, a small amount of test for a first cycle for a guy with lower levels of natural testosterone can do wonders. Thats why it is a good idea to get baseline blood levels checked first before ever considering a cycle.

 

[carverelli]

A lot of variables to consider but the general consensus has to do with this: 300 mg/wk of test will shut you down just as fast as 500mg/wk will. Pct protocol will be identical do why not get the most out of your risk.(unless your on trt)

 

[bigben66]

Cycles should be progressive...

Yes, as a first cycle, 300mg of Test might get you reasonable gains if it coincides with a decent diet and good training.

But keep cycling at 300mg cycle after cycle, and I dare say you'd get less bang for your buck each time.

It's great that you are addressing AAS with caution - but if you are going to make the jump, you may as well use a dose that is going to get the job done!

 

[JimiThing]

I used to think 400-500mgs/week was good. Usually I would say if you had cyp (which used to primarily be dosed at 200mg/ml) do 400mg/week . If you had Enanthate do 500/week (due to the 250mg/ml dosage). I felt back in the day that either worked very well.
Now I never recommend below 500/week and I will tell you why. Back when I started all there was around was pharma gear - so it was either 100 legit or 100% fake and if you got amps you KNEW it was real. You see back then it was way to expensive and no one was making fake amps. So 400mgs of pharma cyp is by all means a fine first cycle where you can make phenomenal gains.
Well now a days with UGLS in the mix I would never recommend below 500mgs/week cause I have no idea the true dosage of what the person has. Now if I am working closely with someone and I DO know the gear they have personally and I know it is 100% legit dosage wise from personal experience I might get more flexible with dosage, but as a rule 500-600mgs/week i am comfortable recommending for a first cycle as honestly quite often that translates to an actual 400-500mgs/week!

 

[Ghost124]

side question: can anyone confirm that running 400mg of test per week vs 500 or 600 causes less water retention? and is it a big difference?

 

[tbonexl]

side question: can anyone confirm that running 400mg of test per week vs 500 or 600 causes less water retention? and is it a big difference?

Water retention is based off of diet and managing estrogen regardless of the dose...

 

[Roush]

side question: can anyone confirm that running 400mg of test per week vs 500 or 600 causes less water retention? and is it a big difference?

This idea is from "old school" AAS use, before the rise of AIs like arimidex (which is probably one of the best things to come to BBing in a long time). Running higher doses of Test, back in the day, meant more Aromatization and more estrogen and thus more water retention and bloat.
but now a days , we can run 1000 mg of test with a proper diet and AI protocol and have little issues with bloat compared to back then

 

[bigben66]

This idea is from "old school" AAS use, before the rise of AIs like arimidex (which is probably one of the best things to come to BBing in a long time). Running higher doses of Test, back in the day, meant more Aromatization and more estrogen and thus more water retention and bloat.
but now a days , we can run 1000 mg of test with a proper diet and AI protocol and have little issues with bloat compared to back then

Correct, nailed it!

My avatar pic was taken last May, I cut on 1g of Test and 500mg Deca... plus a couple of orals to tail the cycle off - I just managed estradiol with arimidex throughout.
Diet will dictate how the body looks more than any other factor.

 

[carverelli]

Correct, nailed it!

My avatar pic was taken last May, I cut on 1g of Test and 500mg Deca... plus a couple of orals to tail the cycle off - I just managed estradiol with arimidex throughout.
Diet will dictate how the body looks more than any other factor.

BB what was your height/weight at the end of your cut? Kudos for yur avi pic. You look great!

 

[tx045]

If you're going to sacrifice shutdown or possible damage to your hpta then you might as well go ahead and go w the 500mg/week. If 250mg/week will leave you shutdown also, you might as well do 500mg if you're going to get on.

 

[bigben66]

BB what was your height/weight at the end of your cut? Kudos for yur avi pic. You look great!

5ft 9" - 210lbs.

Cheers man!

 

[AverageMan]

I'm a month into my first cycle. I chose 400mg a week in order to test the waters and get dialed in with AI. I'm going for bloods tomorrow to see where my tt and e2 are at.

One factor folks are leaving out is size. If you are 6'5" and 300 lbs, 400mg a week isn't much. But a smaller guy (like me) say 5'8" and 165lbs will get a lot more pounch out of 400mg a week. I'm expecting a TT of around 3300 based on numbers from my trt.

 

[killchill]

I'm a month into my first cycle. I chose 400mg a week in order to test the waters and get dialed in with AI. I'm going for bloods tomorrow to see where my tt and e2 are at.

One factor folks are leaving out is size. If you are 6'5" and 300 lbs, 400mg a week isn't much. But a smaller guy (like me) say 5'8" and 165lbs will get a lot more pounch out of 400mg a week. I'm expecting a TT of around 3300 based on numbers from my trt.

3300 TT on 400mg that's sweet, hope your gear is dosed properly, seems to be a hit or miss even with reputable labs. I'm on 600mg and that barely puts me at 2000 TT(underdosed for sure )

 

[.Vision.]

I seen this earlier and decided to wait to everyone chimed in before I gave my humble opinion...

Testosterone only cycles possess a lot of benefits, a matter of fact I often advocate to utilize " testosterone only " for the first several cycles... even a well-seasoned individual can have much success utilizing a base only...

Testosterone only cycles are important for many reasons, individuals need to learn how their body reacts to certain dosages, its pivotal to understand your sensitivities by merely adjusting your dosages in either direction, and learning how you respond, especially to fluctuations, spikes and dips. What's also a key factor is finding out if you are in fact sensitive to elevated estrogen levels and if you possess the aromatase enzyme, and if you prone to receiving gyno... at the same time utilizing this simple protocol your body is going to respond differently to your nutrients, so it's equally crucial to learn and understand how your metabolism will actually change, from blood sugar levels, even sensitivity to sodium will vary and change, and simply adjusting your carbohydrates and calories in either direction can in fact yield dramatic results...

As we get older our bodies also respond differently, as our entire endocrine system and metabolism changes as well, as men age many can find and realize that they don't need to incorporate other compounds... of course this will differ between individuals and their goals...

If someone cannot grow off of testosterone and achieve desired results off of a base only, then that is a key indicator that something is wrong with their protocol, most likely there macros,training....

There is nothing wrong 300-500mgs only!

 

[Fred87]

Im assuming nutrition and training are spot on here.
We are not talking about noob gains or a change of diet, or gains that can be made naturally.
My nutrition, training and rest has been at the same level for ages before the cycle, I just upped the diet according on cycle guidelines.
Shut down wasnt a problem since I was on TRT way before.
I've had better results than what they had at 300mg on that 300vs600 study, deadlift went up to 3x bodyweight, legs exploded in size and strenght, etc.
0 sides, sex drive at insane levels.
Im not saying 300 or 400 mg is the way to go, but it worked wonder for me, so Im guessing why.
Maybe small dudes are fine with less I assume, or the pharma grade stuff, or as Roush said it might be my levels has been quite low before..

 

[Fred87]

Bit off topic but I personally think we dont need grams of stuff and 10 different compounds to look amazing.
I will always be strong on my decision to use as little as possible, train and eat and rest the best possible and give it time.
Guys like Steve Reeves built legendary phisyques with 20 times less drugs than what the average gym rat uses now, I know people on EVERYTHING and still they look far from that.
This is just my 2 cents