Can Cortizone give same side effect as an anobolic or androgenic compound?
- Thread starter Mr P
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Mad- scientist
Moderator
Dorian yates got a cortisone shot before the 1997 mr Olympia and he says that by taking that drug it almost made him loose the Olympia because it gave him water retention and he did not know that was a side effect. So I assume it would give you a better pump. He also says that it weakens tendons so you cant work out at 100% capacity while on it. He blames fucking up his tendons on the cortisone along with the water retention.
Mad- scientist
Moderator
I think one of the differences is probably the fact when you combine cortizone with testosterone it might have a reaction and make tendons weaker or give you more water retention. Than if you were to take either substance alone. Im pretty sure cortizone doesn't have any anabolic or androgenic properties. Also I just realized cortisone and cortizone are to different things. So I think you are talking about the cream I was thinking you were speaking of the injection. Sorry about that.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I think the issue with Cortisone may be that it has the ability to "mask" any tendon damage.
This is all hypothetical but, since cortisone can induce the "fight or flight response" it should in theory provide a better pump in the gym.
I don't think it causes tendons to weaken if used short term but, due to its ability to suppress the immune system, it can hide any damage done.
So usually when you train hard in the gym if you feel pain you tend to address it in some form right? The cortisone can hide the pain to an extent by suppressing the immune system so by the time you realise you've weakened your tendons its too late.
This might also explain why Dorian blamed the cortisone for weakening the tendons - his training weakened his tendons but because he didn't feel it like normal he couldn't address it.
This is all hypothetical but, since cortisone can induce the "fight or flight response" it should in theory provide a better pump in the gym.
I don't think it causes tendons to weaken if used short term but, due to its ability to suppress the immune system, it can hide any damage done.
So usually when you train hard in the gym if you feel pain you tend to address it in some form right? The cortisone can hide the pain to an extent by suppressing the immune system so by the time you realise you've weakened your tendons its too late.
This might also explain why Dorian blamed the cortisone for weakening the tendons - his training weakened his tendons but because he didn't feel it like normal he couldn't address it.
I think chronically it may and may have seen a reference to it. I'm not ready to be quoted on this lol but I will see if I can find the reference. In either case your point still stands, it can mask other issues leading to indirect damage.
Great post.
meatmonkey
New member
Cortisone is the anti-thesis to what "we" want. Sadly, with an injury, cortisone is the "go to" injection via MD's who were "educated" that way vs actually spending class room hours LEARNING what's optimal... And Mad-scientist, it doesn't give a "pump." It's PURELY catabolic, and I equate this injection with the Devil... Thirsty, bloated, and atrophy it is vs a simple compound called ibuprofen. Of course, it doesn't pay to prescribe OTC meds like ibuprofen these days. Only in this "FREE" country called America do we PUT UP WITH this nonsense...
meatmonkey
New member
Catabolic hormones are catabolic...
Mad- scientist
Moderator
Ive never used it I am just saying that if he is feeling a pump from taking it and it causes more water retention. That the water retention could possibly feel like a pump. I personally feel like water retention can simulate a pump like feeling. When you have blood flowing in your muscles and they are full of blood it feels different. But some times just when on a creatine cycle or a testosterone cycle I can feel the extra water weight in my arms making it feel like my skin is tighter and filling up the muscle.
Mad- scientist
Moderator
I know testosterone has other properties besides water retention that cause the pump feeling. But I still think water retention adds to the over all feeling of the pump while on a steroid.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I think the reference your looking for had something to do with tennis elbow? It showed that cortisone only had short term positive effects on tendons and was, ultimately, detrimental long term to tendon strength.
It's mentioned in this analysis also - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435934/pdf/10.1177_1941738112440957.pdf
Dreaded Pirate Roberts
Administrator
If you want to see the water retention effects of Cortisone go google Jerry Lewis.
And what exactly is wrong with a catabolic hormone?
Very well could be, it's been so long. Your thoughts are that acutely it's not damaging but chronically it MAY be damaging either directly or indirectly?
pikiki
New member
Cortisone shot can be use as the first step on a rehab program for athletes, that was the case of Ace starter from the Boston Red Sox during the 2008-2009 period. This can hide the pain like it was stated above but in the long run can cause side effects and even more permanent damage if abuse, just like any other steroid or drug. Not sure about that was Yates case but when use properly can help hide pain or on a rehab process for injuries.
Ethics versus morals?should athletes who use legal steroids be considered cheaters? - Yahoo Answers
This how other sports look at it.
Ethics versus morals?should athletes who use legal steroids be considered cheaters? - Yahoo Answers
This how other sports look at it.
Mprtz
New member
As others have said, Cortisone has effects that are very unlike (almost opposite) anabolic steroids.
They have anti-inflammatory effects that have more of a masking than a therapeutic effect on injuries.
They are often banned in sports not because they enhance performance, but because they can be abused to allow an athlete to compete while injured, ultimately detrimental to his health.
They have anti-inflammatory effects that have more of a masking than a therapeutic effect on injuries.
They are often banned in sports not because they enhance performance, but because they can be abused to allow an athlete to compete while injured, ultimately detrimental to his health.
This isn't directed at you but just in general:
Why is it the right to ban them for this reason (detrimental to health) when in order to compete at the highest level in any sport you have to out your health to the back seat anyway? An elite athlete has one goal and one goal only, to maximize his performance regardless of the cost. If he's willing to sacrifice his health, who are we to say otherwise (smoking and drinking is legal).
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I think by its nature cortisone is catabolic since it does decrease protein synthesis (it also works in other ways to cause muscle atrophy).
However, theoretically if you were to combine it with AAS and resistance training this would offset the catabolic effects. There is some evidence that backs this up but, unfortunately, it was in rats -
The catabolic effect of glucocorticoids on... [J Steroid Biochem. 1982] - PubMed - NCBI
That appears to be the case, yes.
As I stated above, if its used short term in combination with AAS & resistance training I can't see how it would prevent muscle hypertrophy.
Mr P
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look at me how jaked I am , you wich you look like me now see my pic homie lol
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