Coming off TRT vs Coming off Cycle

[Cosmoen]

Which one is harder to come off of and recover natural HPTA function?

1. 2 years of TRT, with testosterone in the normal range. Have been using HCG religiously all this time. 100mg/week test(i inject everyday) and 350iu hcg e3d
2. 2months of steroid use with testosterone at unnaturally high ranges.

I am 26 and my level before TRT was in the upper 400s. I got onto TRT due to low T symptoms which I think might have been due lifestyle habits. Now that I am healthy and in better shape, I am thinking whether I should come off TRT since I am still young and don't want to depend on TRT if I don't need it.

I hear about folks recovering from their first testosterone only cycle without much problem. I have never taken steroid so I don't know their effects. However, I have been on TRT for two years and I wonder if I am as equally shutdown at the steroid user or more shutdown. If they can recover from steroids, shouldn't I be able to recover as well?

I am still deciding whether I should come off and do a restart.

1. I feel good now, i think i am dialed in and i am afraid of messing with things and going into a post TRT depression with my test levels crashing and my hormones fluctuating.

2. On the other hand, why stay on TRT if I don't need it. Isn't natural always better and I don't have to worry about being tied to the needle? Also, my semen volume and texture has noticeably decreased, and I worry about future fertility. If I can get by naturally, why not?

Also, I don't feel much different between test levels in the 400-500(per-trt) and now in the 800-900 even when everything is dialed in. Is that normal? Only time I felt different is when levels went to the 1500range but then I had to dial it back down because it threw my other hormones out of balance.


I would appreciate it if you can share your experience if you have been through a similar situation, or what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Side note- something on the back of my mind, please don't flame me for this if do decide to come off trt, I am thinking of doing a 8 week blast of 400mg before I quit trt. I have never done a cycle before and I never planned to do one. However,since I am shutdown from TRT anyway and am going to lose strength during the restart phase, I was thinking of preparing for this by gaining as much strength as I can before I begin the restart protocol. Will being on a cycle dose make it harder to do a restart vs restarting right now based on my TRT dosage?

 

[Alpin]

I guess the question I have is WHO put you on TRT when your levels were in upper 400s as you say.
You weren't self treating were you?
What was your LH/FSH prior to going on TRT?

 

[Cosmoen]

I guess the question I have is WHO put you on TRT when your levels were in upper 400s as you say.
You weren't self treating were you?
What was your LH/FSH prior to going on TRT?

I started with an online clinic, then a local endo, and currently am on my own after moving. I do regular bloodwork on my own. This is actually anothe reason why I want to come off trt. This constant monitoring of my hormones is very time consuming, but I am getting better results than when I was under a physicians care.

Lh/FSh were in the lower normal ranges. Dont remember exact number but they didn't stand out as particularly low.

 

[theheat]

I'm surprised someone put you on TRT at your age...they could have tried HCG monotherapy first to see if you responded after two months. You could come off the TRT using HCG mono with something like 500 IUs 3x week for 2 months, or try 50mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex for a month then do BW a month later to see where your levels are at. From what I have heard, it's more difficult to recover from long term TRT (even with HCG) then it is a short (8 week) cycle. My Dr told me that if I went on TRT for a certain period of time, I would never be able to get back to my pre-TRT levels on my own. I was in a similar position with a total T in the 400s with low T symptoms, however I tried the monotherapy instead.

 

[Cosmoen]

What is the benefit of hcg monotherapy? The HPTA is still shut down and fertility is still not 100% without the body's production of FSH.

Hcg monotherapy is still a form of hormone replacement therapy, similar to trt.

I do believe I am secondary. I respond well to clomid.

I've seen folks using 2000iu EOD for 3-4 weeks for their restart. Why so high? Why not 500iu EOD for a month, which is closer to hcg monotherapy dosage.

I'm surprised someone put you on TRT at your age...they could have tried HCG monotherapy first to see if you responded after two months. You could come off the TRT using HCG mono with something like 500 IUs 3x week for 2 months, or try 50mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex for a month then do BW a month later to see where your levels are at. From what I have heard, it's more difficult to recover from long term TRT (even with HCG) then it is a short (8 week) cycle. My Dr told me that if I went on TRT for a certain period of time, I would never be able to get back to my pre-TRT levels on my own. I was in a similar position with a total T in the 400s with low T symptoms, however I tried the monotherapy instead.

 

[theheat]

It depends if you're primary or secondary. If you're primary, HCG may "jumpstart" your testicles and get them to produce more T, although you won't be able to sustain the exact same levels once you're off. If you're secondary, taking HCG will only take the place of your inadequate LH, and once you're off your levels will plummet back down. Long term HCG use can disrupt your HPTA by causing your hypothalamus to stop releasing gonadotropin releasing hormone, whereas Clomid and Nolvadex are SERMs that inhibit estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and cause your body to release GnRH. If Clomid/Nolvadex worked for you, then I would give it a try again and do BW in a month or two. I wouldn't use 2,000 IUs of HCG EOD for a restart, I would stick to 500 IUs EOD or 250 IUs ED. Anything over 1,000 IUs at once can spike E2 and possibly cause Leydig cell desensitization.

 

[Alpin]

It depends if you're primary or secondary. If you're primary, HCG may "jumpstart" your testicles and get them to produce more T, although you won't be able to sustain the exact same levels once you're off. If you're secondary, taking HCG will only take the place of your inadequate LH, and once you're off your levels will plummet back down. Long term HCG use can disrupt your HPTA by causing your hypothalamus to stop releasing gonadotropin releasing hormone, whereas Clomid and Nolvadex are SERMs that inhibit estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and cause your body to release GnRH. If Clomid/Nolvadex worked for you, then I would give it a try again and do BW in a month or two. I wouldn't use 2,000 IUs of HCG EOD for a restart, I would stick to 500 IUs EOD or 250 IUs ED. Anything over 1,000 IUs at once can spike E2 and possibly cause Leydig cell desensitization.

I got news for you......You need not be on long term to disrupt the HPTA. After a week or two your pituitary will konk out on the HCG mono.

 

[theheat]

I got news for you......You need not be on long term to disrupt the HPTA. After a week or two your pituitary will konk out on the HCG mono.

Would Clomid/Nolvadex bring it back after mono?

 

[Alpin]

Would Clomid/Nolvadex bring it back after mono?

Uh yeah....
When restarting it is common to use HCG until you hit at least 500 ng/dl TT then once you have confirmed by blood labs that the HCG has done it s job...

You wait 3-4 days after your last HCG shot then start clomid. Nolvadex is anecdotal as far as effectiveness in restarts is concerned. Clomid is what u want.