Could DHEA and Pregnenolone Increase My TT 300+ Points?

[Alpin]

Hi Austinite

 

[Austinite]

Hello

 

[Megatron28]

Bingo.

So now we know your cholesterol improvement is a player in this equation (Outstanding job there by the way). Better Cholesterol levels means healthier steroidogenesis. If you're not using Vitamin D, please do so.

Anyway, Pravastatin is a HMG CoA reductase inhibitor. A statin, if you will. They work, but they also lower intracellular cholesterol, which much testosterone conversion is dependant on. It was lowering your test conversion via P450cc pathway. Couple this with supplementation, better lipid profile and I think that's your answer.

ps. What brands you using?

Thanks for the kudos. I wish I could tell you what I did to improve my cholesterol numbers. It doesn't feel like I changed anything dramatically. I do have a question though. I thought my natural testosterone production was essentially shut down now that I am on TRT. I don't understand the role that cholesterol is playing now that I am on TRT. How do the statin and cholesterol come into play if my testosterone is coming from a needle?

I am taking Vitamin D. 10,000 iu's daily. That puts me at 88 on a range of 30-100.

I am taking MRM Micronized DHEA and Life Extension Pregnenolone. Both were obtained on Amazon.com.

 

[halfwit]

Honestly I thought DHEA couldn't convert to testosterone as that pathway is supposed to be shut off with exogenous test use. Pregnenolone is supposed to also work on different pathways if I recall correctly, working mostly with memory (sorry I don't remember the exact nature of how this works) abilities in the brain.

I've been taking DHEA and Pregnenolone for well over a year and haven't noticed a drastic change in my total test values. I'm wondering if you have lost a significant amount of body fat though, as that could effectively change how well you metabolize the testosterone you're taking; providing for a higher total test value. This would coincide with a higher free test value as well I suspect as your SHBG should also decline.

I wish I could offer more insight into this Mega as I know you always have some doozies due to your ability to discern actual events and their possible effects. I'm still reading up on thyroid vs estrogen to be honest from your last thread! Did you lower your test dose due to the potential difference in potency from the previous brand you were using? I believe you know to what I'm referring.

 

[Austinite]

Thanks for the kudos. I wish I could tell you what I did to improve my cholesterol numbers. It doesn't feel like I changed anything dramatically. I do have a question though. I thought my natural testosterone production was essentially shut down now that I am on TRT. I don't understand the role that cholesterol is playing now that I am on TRT. How do the statin and cholesterol come into play if my testosterone is coming from a needle?

I am taking Vitamin D. 10,000 iu's daily. That puts me at 88 on a range of 30-100.

I am taking MRM Micronized DHEA and Life Extension Pregnenolone. Both were obtained on Amazon.com.

Testosterone is not only produced at the testes. Although that is primary. Pituitary-secreted-LH is suppressed, so the testes do not produce. Cholesterol converts to steroids, without any help from pituitary.

Take hCG for example. You're injecting testosterone which halts production, yet hCG is capable of producing natural testosterone and increasing your serum. This is why hCG can be used instead of injecting testosterone twice weekly. You can inject testosterone once weekly, and and hCG will keep the balance by preventing a dip in serum. Without hCG, twice weekly testosterone injections are preferred.

When you have multiple sources of any hormone, it is compounded, not overridden. Look at estradiol, it does not discriminate locations. Serum estradiol is total.

 

[halfwit]

I was hoping you'd pop in and correct me as I wasn't too sure. What you say makes sense though. Great info Austinite.

 

[Austinite]

Honestly I thought DHEA couldn't convert to testosterone as that pathway is supposed to be shut off with exogenous test use. Pregnenolone is supposed to also work on different pathways if I recall correctly, working mostly with memory (sorry I don't remember the exact nature of how this works) abilities in the brain.

I've been taking DHEA and Pregnenolone for well over a year and haven't noticed a drastic change in my total test values. I'm wondering if you have lost a significant amount of body fat though, as that could effectively change how well you metabolize the testosterone you're taking; providing for a higher total test value. This would coincide with a higher free test value as well I suspect as your SHBG should also decline.

I wish I could offer more insight into this Mega as I know you always have some doozies due to your ability to discern actual events and their possible effects. I'm still reading up on thyroid vs estrogen to be honest from your last thread! Did you lower your test dose due to the potential difference in potency from the previous brand you were using? I believe you know to what I'm referring.

The difference is generally negligible. This is why I thought he might be hypersensitive in some area. Pregnenolone does work on different pathways as mentioned earlier, but those are branched off prior to conversion to DHEA. They don't work anywhere else, once in the bloodstream they only have one destination.

Pathways is never really shut off. That would in fact be detrimental.

 

[Megatron28]

Honestly I thought DHEA couldn't convert to testosterone as that pathway is supposed to be shut off with exogenous test use. Pregnenolone is supposed to also work on different pathways if I recall correctly, working mostly with memory (sorry I don't remember the exact nature of how this works) abilities in the brain.

I've been taking DHEA and Pregnenolone for well over a year and haven't noticed a drastic change in my total test values. I'm wondering if you have lost a significant amount of body fat though, as that could effectively change how well you metabolize the testosterone you're taking; providing for a higher total test value. This would coincide with a higher free test value as well I suspect as your SHBG should also decline.

I wish I could offer more insight into this Mega as I know you always have some doozies due to your ability to discern actual events and their possible effects. I'm still reading up on thyroid vs estrogen to be honest from your last thread! Did you lower your test dose due to the potential difference in potency from the previous brand you were using? I believe you know to what I'm referring.

I have lost 10 pounds since May -- hopefully fat. It is harder to tell you how much my body composition may have changed. Could that make this big of a difference in my TT?

I do know what you are referring to. I am using my Watson testosterone cypionate that I picked up at the pharmacy.

 

[Alpin]

I have lost 10 pounds since May -- hopefully fat. It is harder to tell you how much my body composition may have changed. Could that make this big of a difference in my TT?

I do know what you are referring to. I am using my Watson testosterone cypionate that I picked up at the pharmacy.

It's the T you're shooting. The stuff boosts metabolism.
I've lost 4 pound in a month on it.

 

[halfwit]

The difference is generally negligible. This is why I thought he might be hypersensitive in some area. Pregnenolone does work on different pathways as mentioned earlier, but those are branched off prior to conversion to DHEA. They don't work anywhere else, once in the bloodstream they only have one destination.

Pathways is never really shut off. That would in fact be detrimental.

Always benefit from your knowledge my good man. This community is definitely richer because of you.

I have lost 10 pounds since May -- hopefully fat. It is harder to tell you how much my body composition may have changed. Could that make this big of a difference in my TT?

I do know what you are referring to. I am using my Watson testosterone cypionate that I picked up at the pharmacy.

10lbs is also a good difference. I don't know if that is the cause, but I'd definitely put off that visit until it drops down a smidge.

 

[Alpin]

Testosterone is not only produced at the testes. Although that is primary. Pituitary-secreted-LH is suppressed, so the testes do not produce. Cholesterol converts to steroids, without any help from pituitary.

Take hCG for example. You're injecting testosterone which halts production, yet hCG is capable of producing natural testosterone and increasing your serum. This is why hCG can be used instead of injecting testosterone twice weekly. You can inject testosterone once weekly, and and hCG will keep the balance by preventing a dip in serum. Without hCG, twice weekly testosterone injections are preferred.

When you have multiple sources of any hormone, it is compounded, not overridden. Look at estradiol, it does not discriminate locations. Serum estradiol is total.

HCG raises endogenous T to some level!!!
More so in younger males with secondary hypogonadism.
It still works albeit at a smaller level in partial responders...HCG will still help you out 100 ng/dl or so
Not like T shots though.

 

[bigben34]

Megatron,
Just out of curiosity...How long have you been doing the 100mg of deca with your TRT?

 

[jomamma007]

Honestly, I couldn't see how DHEA and Preg supplementation could increase anything dramatically other then estrogen.
Even In a man not on TRT I've never seen such gains.
Could have to do with lowered CHOL levels, not sure. 200mgs puts me <1500 test levels hmmm.
10lbs isn't enough for such a huge change in hormone levels on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) IMO
I guess know you can save some test for a blast down the line , unless your doc goes loco with your new results.

Maybe that isn't 100% deca? You said you've noticed the increase in estrogen. Well for how long? Since starting DHEA and PREg, starting DECA???

I'd re-test in a month personally with the cheap-o female panel just for Total T levels.

 

[Megatron28]

Megatron,
Just out of curiosity...How long have you been doing the 100mg of deca with your TRT?

I did a blast and used it then for the first time. I kept using it afterwards at a low dose. I have been running Deca at 100mg with my TRT for about three months now.

 

[Megatron28]

Honestly, I couldn't see how DHEA and Preg supplementation could increase anything dramatically other then estrogen.
Even In a man not on TRT I've never seen such gains.
Could have to do with lowered CHOL levels, not sure. 200mgs puts me <1500 test levels hmmm.
10lbs isn't enough for such a huge change in hormone levels on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) IMO
I guess know you can save some test for a blast down the line , unless your doc goes loco with your new results.

Maybe that isn't 100% deca? You said you've noticed the increase in estrogen. Well for how long? Since starting DHEA and PREg, starting DECA???

I'd re-test in a month personally with the cheap-o female panel just for Total T levels.

200mg/week used to put me at just below 1200 TT -- so just inside the normal range.

From what everyone is saying, perhaps it is a combination of things (in no particular order):
1) Some fat loss and I have probably added some muscle.
2) Body composition change -- muscle to fat ratio.
3) Greatly improved lipid profile. Honestly I don't know how that happened. And surprisingly lipids are better when off the statin than on.
4) Impact of adding DHEA and Pregnenolone to my protocol.
5) I ran my first blast ever which ended three months ago. It is possible it "woke up" some receptors.

Not being 100% Deca is certainly a possibility. I don't think it is likely, but it is certainly possible.

This is actually my second set of labs in the last three month. I ran some on October 1st. So enough time for the blast to clear out of my system. Without going into all of the details, my key numbers were:

TT >1500 (348-1197)
Free T >73 (5-21)
Stupid LabCorp cuts them off.

Estradiol, Sensitive 54 (3-70) but we all know that isn't the ideal range
Prolactin 24 (3.5-19.4)

Cholesterol 141 (100-199)
Triglycerides 113 (0-149)
HDL 31 (40+)
LDL 87 (0-99)

Thyroid:
TSH 2.3 (0.5-4.5) again normal range is recommended one
T4 5.0 (4.5-12.0)
T3 Uptake 35 (24-39)
Free Thyroxine Index 1.8 (1.2-4.9)

IGF-1 163 (64-210)

So basically, labs came in similar to how they came back this week.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what I am thinking I need to do.

1) I already rescheduled my doctor appointment to late December. So now I have some time to sort things out.

2) I am going to keep taking the DHEA and Pregnenolone as advised.

3) I am going to lower my Test dose. Not sure exactly to what yet. I wish I knew how much over 1500 my TT is right now. I am thinking of going down to 120mg per week. Who know's I might even be able to go off the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) at that dose. I will still split the dose into two injections per week.

4) I am going to stop the Deca until I stabilize my levels again. Just one less variable to worry about. I can add it back in later and see what it does. Hopefully my joints will hold up until I can get dialed in again.

So the bad news is I get to dial myself in again. :-(

------------------------------------------------------------------

I would love everyone's input. Does this seem like a good plan of attack?

 

[jomamma007]

Plan sounds great,
if it ends up getting you off the Aromatase inhibitor (AI), then re-dialing yourself in is worth it.

 

[Alpin]

Mega,

I don't know if you are into bodybuilding or not....but these T levels would deliver dramatic results in the gym.

 

[Megatron28]

Mega,

I don't know if you are into bodybuilding or not....but these T levels would deliver dramatic results in the gym.

I am trying to lower my T. I'm not trying to run a cycle. I want to be in the normal range. But my previous dose doesn't do that anymore.

We don't hear too many guys talking about this in the TRT forum, do we?

 

[DreDay187]

200mg/week used to put me at just below 1200 TT -- so just inside the normal range.

From what everyone is saying, perhaps it is a combination of things (in no particular order):
1) Some fat loss and I have probably added some muscle.
2) Body composition change -- muscle to fat ratio.
3) Greatly improved lipid profile. Honestly I don't know how that happened. And surprisingly lipids are better when off the statin than on.
4) Impact of adding DHEA and Pregnenolone to my protocol.
5) I ran my first blast ever which ended three months ago. It is possible it "woke up" some receptors.

Not being 100% Deca is certainly a possibility. I don't think it is likely, but it is certainly possible.

This is actually my second set of labs in the last three month. I ran some on October 1st. So enough time for the blast to clear out of my system. Without going into all of the details, my key numbers were:

TT >1500 (348-1197)
Free T >73 (5-21)
Stupid LabCorp cuts them off.

Estradiol, Sensitive 54 (3-70) but we all know that isn't the ideal range
Prolactin 24 (3.5-19.4)

Cholesterol 141 (100-199)
Triglycerides 113 (0-149)
HDL 31 (40+)
LDL 87 (0-99)

Thyroid:
TSH 2.3 (0.5-4.5) again normal range is recommended one
T4 5.0 (4.5-12.0)
T3 Uptake 35 (24-39)
Free Thyroxine Index 1.8 (1.2-4.9)

IGF-1 163 (64-210)

So basically, labs came in similar to how they came back this week.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what I am thinking I need to do.

1) I already rescheduled my doctor appointment to late December. So now I have some time to sort things out.

2) I am going to keep taking the DHEA and Pregnenolone as advised.

3) I am going to lower my Test dose. Not sure exactly to what yet. I wish I knew how much over 1500 my TT is right now. I am thinking of going down to 120mg per week. Who know's I might even be able to go off the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) at that dose. I will still split the dose into two injections per week.

4) I am going to stop the Deca until I stabilize my levels again. Just one less variable to worry about. I can add it back in later and see what it does. Hopefully my joints will hold up until I can get dialed in again.

So the bad news is I get to dial myself in again. :-(

------------------------------------------------------------------

I would love everyone's input. Does this seem like a good plan of attack?

I would work at it backwards. You already know what your serum levels should be at given your typical TRT dose and unless you somehow got a weak lot from the pharmacy which is highly unlikely, your serum levels should be in that range without the DHEA, pregnenolone, and deca. After cutting them get a sensitive assay total testosterone test and slowly re-introduce the other compounds one by one and see which is boosting your test levels.

 

[Megatron28]

I would work at it backwards. You already know what your serum levels should be at given your typical TRT dose and unless you somehow got a weak lot from the pharmacy which is highly unlikely, your serum levels should be in that range without the DHEA, pregnenolone, and deca. After cutting them get a sensitive assay total testosterone test and slowly re-introduce the other compounds one by one and see which is boosting your test levels.

I suppose I have time to work it "backwards". I rescheduled to late December. This won't get my levels low enough though if I am metabolizing the testosterone differently now however.

Part of me just wants to get my levels in line for my doc and then figure out what is going on.