could use some help here. Please chime in

[Johny J]

If you look at the "Online journal", you will see i am doign an HST routine. I encourage you to take a look anyway. Tell me what you think.

I have gotten great results. However, it has been 2 months i am doing this routine and perhaps feel like changing to a typical volume training routine, just to keep things guessing.
thinking of doing a split like such...

day 1
chest: 8 working sets, one of those to failure
tri:4 sets, 1 to failure

day 2 off

day 3 back\bi
9-12 sets back, one or 2 of those 2 failure
bis: 2 sets

day 4 off

day 5 Shoulders\legs
9 sets or so for legs, 1 till failure
shoulders: 6 sets or so, one of those till failure.

plan on keeping the reps between 12-6, hitting the whole range on each workout.
My questions are this...
1. Do you think i should switch routines in the first place.
2. do you think that volume level is ok.
3. When doing the reps, should i pick a wieght and lets say stop at 6-12?
4. Is going to failure on 1 set per body part too much or too little. The reason i ask is i tend to go towards to much. I used to go every set to failure. Yes i got big, but it burns you out and always super sore.
5. on the lighter sets, that i dont go to failure, how do you do the set? Do you suggest going through the motion, or squeezing as hard as possible at the contraction point?

Mods and vets, please feel free to weigh in. I would really like some advice from guys who are on the large side or who have seen great gains. I dont want a 175lb kid\guy telling me what to switch up, no offense.

 

[inked1]

I dont want a 175lb kid\guy telling me what to switch up, no offense.

LMAO
sorry dude, I don't have an answer for you, only more questions.
what were your gains like on HST compared to other types of training? Is this the first time you have used HST?

I'm just using a real basic PL routine ( thanks to PB's thread) and enjoying liftin more than I have in ages.
good luck with your decision

 

[Johny J]

Yes, it is the first time i used HST.
My results were great, as i managed to gain around 12lbs or so while leaning out some.
However, it was after a couple month lay off, so it is hard to give HST all the credit.
But i will tell you this, i really liked it, and my results came beautifully and i think has been the best thing i have done so far.

However, when i previously used volume techniques, i went every set to failure. So i am sure i went above and beyond over training., now i want to see what happens if i try to implement a 3-4 day split, with proper rep ranges and failure, and load.

I started the above routine yesterday. Only took one of the sets i did for chest till failure, but i alternated between heavy sets and higher rep sets back and forth not taking them to failure.

 

[blackbeard]

hard to say how much volume is too much..everyone reacts differently
what about a DC style routine?

 

[Johny J]

done the DC thing sometime back. It seemed pretty cool.
However, it is just hard for me to stick with going to the gym so infrequently.
I was about 19-20 when i tried it though, so iw ill give it another go eventualy.

i am in this for the long run, so i am trying to figure out what works well for me.
so far i really like HST. will continue to use that one. Gonna see how volume training treats me, cause even while i was overtraining i still managed to grow well off it.
Will rotate in DC aain as well in the future.

Good to see ya BB.

 

[Mudge]

I added back and leg volume when I did the routine. I liked it, but wouldn't use it all the time. :shrug:

 

[pullinbig]

jj why dont you give a straight PLing routine a shot for a while and see where that takes you. i think youll be very surprised, esp with your strength base.

 

[Johny J]

jj why dont you give a straight PLing routine a shot for a while and see where that takes you. i think youll be very surprised, esp with your strength base.

i am always willing to try things.
my only hang up is this... i dont care about strength. size is all. if i am 260lbs at 6% and can only bench\squat\dl a total of 500lbs, so be it.

if this routine you speak of will build size the best, i would love it. I am gonna rotate in a couple different routines, trying everything out.
So far i like HST, and i feel i will like this volume routine. Perhaps your PL routine will be #3 that i put in the rotation.

got a link to it? so i can copy and paste it.

 

[inked1]

I think the basics of it appear around page 5 of the "do deadlift's thicken waist thread"
Dang mang, my pc's running so slow, i'll find it for ya later

 

[inked1]

found it, it was page 6

from PB
Here’s a generic one that is a good starting point. This is a mass building routine. Probably less volume than you are used too but very effective. 3 days per week because that’s all most folks can handle if they are training heavy. They key is forced/assisted reps. Painful but very effective if you really want to put on size. This does no include warm ups so that is up to you to make sure you are stretched and plenty warm before performing work sets. A work set is defined as a set that you just barely get all reps or need assistance on one or two reps. If you get all the reps fairly easily then it is a warm up and not a work set. Add abs and cardio on the days off to fit your needs.


Monday:
Squats 2 x 5
Box squats 2 x 4
Leg presses 2 x 5 (pick two of these pressing movements, alternate)
weighted abs 2 x 20
Calves (your choice of exercise) 2 x 10

Tuesday:
Wide grip flat bench 2 x 6
Decline medium grip bench 2 x 6
Weighted dips 2 x 10
Upright rows or side laterals 1 x 10

Thursday:
Dead lifts 2 x 5 (or a variation of)
Posterior core movement 2 x 10-20.
weighted abs 2x20
Bent over rows or some type of row 2 x 4-6
Reverse grip narrow grip pull downs 2 x 6-8
Standing wide grip curls 2 x 8-10

posterior core movements include reverse hypers, good mornings, hyper extensions (flat of 45°), seated GMs, sldl, rack pulls, pull thrus, glute ham raise, dimel deads, etc.....

Every one of these movements is a mass building exercise. These are the essential movements for putting on size. Rest and nutrition are just as important as lifting, neglect any one of the three and you will not grow. Juice or no juice all will grow with this routine or a similar one. Consistency is the key. Adding 5 lbs to the bar every other week equals 130lbs/year. Not bad considering many are moving the same weight year in year out. Strength gains are the key to growth, not other way around.

I hope this helpful to all who read it. I have designed many programs for a variety of athletes with varying needs. If you have special needs such as martial arts, football or gymnastics (to name a few) the program can be altered to accommodate these needs

 

[Johny J]

so everyone of those sets is pretty much to failure?
damn, i thought that was overkill. Hmm. Now i am confused as to how to aproach my lifts.

thanks inked for digging that up

 

[hornedfrogs07]

so everyone of those sets is pretty much to failure?
damn, i thought that was overkill. Hmm. Now i am confused as to how to aproach my lifts.

Sort of. Even though you've got relatively few sets outlined in your plan, there's even fewer in that PL routine, so.................well, I really don't know.

That routine worked pretty well for me over the past semester, just simply because I was in a maintenance mode due to schedule -- I was only able to get to the gym about 2 days per week ALL semester, and I was sleeping about 4-4.5 hours per night. Taking that into consideration then, I would consider the fact that my upper body lifts only dropped about 15-20lbs 1RM and my lower body lifts stayed relatively constant, to be a success. Granted, I don't know how well that routine will work with someone able to devote the full amount of time to it, and to get the proper rest and nutrition, because I absolutely was not able to do that for the past 3-4 months or so.

Never tried HST before, and the 5x5 worked wonders for me last year, but a 'normal' volume training routine has always done jack sh*t for me.

 

[Eze]

JohnnyJ, why not do a 3 day DC split

Day1: Chest/Delts/Tri

Day 2: Back Width/Back Thinkness/Bi/Forearms

Day 3:Calves/Hammies/Quads

 

[Johny J]

JohnnyJ, why not do a 3 day DC split

Day1: Chest/Delts/Tri

Day 2: Back Width/Back Thinkness/Bi/Forearms

Day 3:Calves/Hammies/Quads

i do believe that is gonna be next in rotation. in about 6-8 weeks, i will rock that.
I reall yneed to go over his concepts again. from what i remember, someitmes you do rest\pauses, others you dont, etc. need to look at how many excercises per body part\group. all that fun stuff.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I like going to the gym to much - I could never do 3 days / week.

I'd go crazy at home

 

[Eze]

You don't have to go 3 times per week.

Go EOD, then take more days off if you feel like you are not recovered enough.

I'm not trained by DC, so I don't want to give any DC advice. I have basically taken what I have read from him and made my own variation which fits my needs.

I have a very busy schedule for work, so I find this is the best way for me to get in all my workouts without missing a bodypart.

Alot of DC trainees do a 2 Day split, but I just found that it was too taxing on my body and I wasn't able to recover quick enough from it. With this split I find it is perfect for my needs.

Johnny, here are some DC Basics (taken from a post by jimpaul):

THIS PROGRAM IS FOR ADVANCED TRAINEES WITH AT LEAST THREE YEARS EXPERIENCE AND THE FOUNDER OF IT (DANTE) WISHES IT TO REMAIN THAT WAY.
IF YOU ARE JUST A BEGINNER TO WEIGHTLIFTING THEN PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS PROGRAM!


ALSO, BECAUSE WE PROGRESS SO RAPIDLY WITH THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHTS IN EXERCISES AND BECAUSE OF THE NEED TO SWITCH TO DIFFERENT EXERCISES, THIS PROGRAM SHOULD BE PERFORMED AT A WELL EQUIPPED GYM. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH EQUIPMENT/WEIGHTS AT HOME.



OKAY IN YOUR LOGBOOK WRITE IT UP THIS WAY =
NAME OF EXERCISE
LT= WEIGHTS X REPS / TT= WEIGHTS X REPS
THE LT STANDS FOR LAST TIME AND TT STANDS FOR THIS TIME


MAKE CHEST AND SHOULDERS PRESSES 11-15 RP


BENCH PRESS (Flat bar pressing) SHOULD BE KEPT AROUND 15-30 RP.


15-20 ON PULLDOWN MOVEMENTS REST PAUSED

BARBELL ROWS ARE A STRAIGHT SET OF 12, DON'T REST PAUSE QUADS OR BACK THICKNESS MOVEMENTS, EXCEPT FOR SAFE MOVEMENTS LIKE CABLE ROWS OR ONE HAND DB ROWS!!

CLOSE GRIP AND REVERSE GRIP PRESSES CAN BE REST PAUSED FOR 11-15, SKULLS GET 15-30 AND DIPS GET 15-20 REST PAUSED AND NO STATICS ON TRICEPS

DB PRESSES ARE DONE FOR 15-20 REST PAUSED

STIFFLEGGED DEADLIFTS ARE DONE LIKE THIS, SETS OF 6 ADDING 10 POUNDS TO EACH SIDE UNTIL WE REACH A SET WHERE WE CAN'T GET SIX REPS. THE NEXT TIME THIS EX. COMES UP, START YOUR WORK SETS ABOUT 40 POUNDS BELOW YOUR PREVIOUS BEST

BICEP BARBELL AND DB CURLS GET 15-20 REST PAUSED

PREACHER CURLS ARE REST PAUSED 11-15

12-20 ON ONE ARM REVERSE CABLE CURLS AND HAMMER CURLS

PINWHEEL CURLS ARE DONE FOR ONE STRAIGHT SET OF 10-12 REPS

CALVES GET A STRAIGHT FOR 12 AND THEN YOU CAN ADD WEIGHT NEXT TIME

FOR QUADS WORK UP ONLY TO TWO STRAIGHT SETS, ONE 4-8 AND ONE 20 REPPER (WIDOWMAKER)

THERE ARE REALLY NO RIGHT OR WRONG EXERCISES BUT, IT'S HIGHLY RECOMMENDED THAT YOU USE SOME SORT OF COMPOUND TYPE OF MOVEMENT. LIKE FRONT OR BACK PRESS ON A MACHINE OR BARBELL OR SMYTHE. BUT IF YOU DECIDE TO GO WITH A LESS COMPOUND MOVEMENT ANYWAYS, YOU'LL FIND OUT WHY IT WASN'T RECOMMENDED SOON ENOUGH.

HAMSTRINGS GET 20-30 ON CURLING MOVEMENTS REST PAUSED

SUMO HAM PRESSES GET 12-20 STRAIGHT SET

REGULAR DEADLIFTS, TRAPBAR DEADLIFTS AND RACK DEADLIFTS ARE DONE WITH TWO STRAIGHT SETS (AFTER WARMUPS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE) ONE SET IS 6-8 AND THE SECOND SET IS 3-4

WHEN IT COMES TO CERTAIN BACK EXERCISES, SUCH AS DEADLIFTS AND ROWS, THE SET ENDS WHEN THE SHOULDERS ROUND FORWARD

WARMUP APPROPRIATELY


BASIC EATING ADVICE IS HERE:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=7292

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=5722




ONLY DANTE AND INHUMAN KNOW THIS PROGRAM WELL ENOUGH TO TEACH IT TO OTHERS. THIS THREAD IS ONLY TO POINT OUT THE INFO THAT'S OUT THERE FOR THE ADVANCED TRAINEE "GENERAL PUBLIC"!
FOR TRAINING AND SPECIALIZED HELP CONTACT DANTE AT: DC@cyber-rights.net


SIDENOTE: IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTACT DANTE FOR HELP, PLEASE REMEMBER THIS IS AN ADVANCED PROGRAM FOR MASS AND IF HE IS ABLE TO TAKE YOU ON, TO DO EXACTLY AS THE MAN TELLS YOU TO DO.
http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=7414

 

[inked1]

good post easto

 

[Johny J]

hmm.

i tell you what, i dont know if i will ever find what i like.
the Dc shit looks good, but there are lots of questions i have about it, so i will have to read up.

as of now, i changed my split to look like this...
Chest\tri
back\bi
off
shoulders\legs
off
repeat.

So it seems 2 of those groups get hit 2wice a week. A kno wmany fo you are probably already sacreaming over training. However, we shall see. i am keeping it to about 9 sets for chest, 11 for back, 4 for arm muscles. 6 sets for shoulders.
only 2 or 3 sets till failure for the bigger muscles, 1 for the little ones.

I knda took a volume routine and bastardized it with HST. I figured i would use a little less volume, but hit it mor eoften.

Sound decent?

 

[Johny J]

JohnnyJ, why not do a 3 day DC split

Day1: Chest/Delts/Tri

Day 2: Back Width/Back Thinkness/Bi/Forearms

Day 3:Calves/Hammies/Quads

easto, do you just do one excercise for each of those groups? Like 1 set of chest, 1 set of delts, 1 set of tri's?
i am guessing there are warm ups. Now by warm ups, do you use a good amoutn of wqeight, like75% 1rm for 10 or so, or do you just lift a little till you feel ready to go.
That cant be right, it just seems like not doing anyhting,.

 

[Eze]

My warm ups are used to get blood to the muscles and to avoid injury. I will keep my warmups around 4-6 reps (the goal to warm the muscle, not to tire it out).

Then it comes to the working set. Usually I will hit failure around 8-10 reps (depends on the exercise I am doing). After tha I rack the weight and take a good 12-15 breaths. I will go again until failure, take my breaths, then one final time.

It's 1 rest/Pause set, but you get the benefit of basically 3 sets to failure.

Then on to the next exercise.

Johny, when I first started to read about DC I was weary. It went against everything flex magazine told me. But I got my best gains off this program (well, my version of it) and I am annihilated when I leave the gym.