Jimstigator
New member
Hey there,
Short intro - I have had major hormone crashes, all natural, over the course of my life. First was around 20 years old. Nolva fired me back up. Second was around 25, again, Nolva restart helped. This past one started 3 years ago, and here I still am battling. I now see one of the best TRT doctors available, but its just too pricey to talk to him as often as I would like, so here I am
I was recently started on TRT after a few years of failed low dose Clomid/Nolvadex restarts.
-Prior treatment leading up to TRT was .25mg adex 5 days a week and 5mg nolva daily. T/E were generally good. While this kept test up and my naturally high E down most of the time, I was unable to get off Nolva and crashed far too often for it to be sustainable.
-Initial TRT treatment 140mg test cyp weekly via 4 injections, 250iu HCG twice week, .25 adex 5 days a week.
I stopped taking Nolva the day I started TRT. After a few test injections, I added HCG 250iu twice a week, injected on two off days from test cyp. Almost immediately (4 days into treatment, day after my first HCG injection), my nipples went absolutely haywire (I am gyno prone). I had blood drawn the next day and sensitive estradiol was actually low at 9 (ref range 3-70). Test on the other hand was over 1200 (ref 348-1197) and climbing. Subsequent blood tests a week later showed test climbed to over 1500 while estrogen stayed beaten down too low with adex (13). Despite the low e readings on paper, nipples still went nuts.
Essentially, within about a week of starting TRT, my test climbed to 1500, and my nipples lost control.
To combat the nipple issues, I started Nolva again at 20mg a day, which I now believe didn't help since it also triggered LH to the testes, compounding the issue of gyno from the HCG.
My thought is that I started test cyp and HCG all at once, and my natural production was still pumping and high (total T = 600-800) from the Nolva, which overstimulated the hell out of my testes with LH and caused my test to rage. To make things worse, I tried to combat the HCG with more Nolva. When I take a break from the HCG, even for a few days, it seems like the nips started to feel better.
Does the following sound like a decent plan to get back on track? Again, I am assisted by an excellent Dr., I just can't afford to talk to him as often as I need to adjust things this early in the game and need some advice for at least the short term until we speak again. I can't handle the fire nipples anymore.
1) Stop HCG (250iu twice weekly)
2) Continue test cyp but at lower dose than I started, 100mg weekly, spread over 4 shots, and monitor blood every two weeks, looking to get t/e into line... something like 800/22.
3) Get off Nolva as the nipple/gyno subsides
4) Once completely off Nolva for at least 14 days, and test levels are steady from injections, consider HCG again.
5) Back off test dose a bit to allow room for the testosterone boost HCG will induce (I'm secondary)
6) Pray nipples hold off, else consider surgery. At this point I might just concede my nips are just too gyno prone. Even at a sensitive e of 9, I get major sensation.
The reality is I can deal with most side effects, but my gyno flares drive me crazy.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. My gut says I should have left HCG out until I was able to dial in the TRT, given my history of gyno and overall sensitivity to estrogen. Obviously the combo of both was very strong and caused my testosterone to skyrocket well beyond my body's limits. Somewhere I read Crisler actually has patients wait to start HCG for at least a month or two so test cyp doses can be dialed in.
Thanks,
Jim
Short intro - I have had major hormone crashes, all natural, over the course of my life. First was around 20 years old. Nolva fired me back up. Second was around 25, again, Nolva restart helped. This past one started 3 years ago, and here I still am battling. I now see one of the best TRT doctors available, but its just too pricey to talk to him as often as I would like, so here I am
I was recently started on TRT after a few years of failed low dose Clomid/Nolvadex restarts.
-Prior treatment leading up to TRT was .25mg adex 5 days a week and 5mg nolva daily. T/E were generally good. While this kept test up and my naturally high E down most of the time, I was unable to get off Nolva and crashed far too often for it to be sustainable.
-Initial TRT treatment 140mg test cyp weekly via 4 injections, 250iu HCG twice week, .25 adex 5 days a week.
I stopped taking Nolva the day I started TRT. After a few test injections, I added HCG 250iu twice a week, injected on two off days from test cyp. Almost immediately (4 days into treatment, day after my first HCG injection), my nipples went absolutely haywire (I am gyno prone). I had blood drawn the next day and sensitive estradiol was actually low at 9 (ref range 3-70). Test on the other hand was over 1200 (ref 348-1197) and climbing. Subsequent blood tests a week later showed test climbed to over 1500 while estrogen stayed beaten down too low with adex (13). Despite the low e readings on paper, nipples still went nuts.
Essentially, within about a week of starting TRT, my test climbed to 1500, and my nipples lost control.
To combat the nipple issues, I started Nolva again at 20mg a day, which I now believe didn't help since it also triggered LH to the testes, compounding the issue of gyno from the HCG.
My thought is that I started test cyp and HCG all at once, and my natural production was still pumping and high (total T = 600-800) from the Nolva, which overstimulated the hell out of my testes with LH and caused my test to rage. To make things worse, I tried to combat the HCG with more Nolva. When I take a break from the HCG, even for a few days, it seems like the nips started to feel better.
Does the following sound like a decent plan to get back on track? Again, I am assisted by an excellent Dr., I just can't afford to talk to him as often as I need to adjust things this early in the game and need some advice for at least the short term until we speak again. I can't handle the fire nipples anymore.
1) Stop HCG (250iu twice weekly)
2) Continue test cyp but at lower dose than I started, 100mg weekly, spread over 4 shots, and monitor blood every two weeks, looking to get t/e into line... something like 800/22.
3) Get off Nolva as the nipple/gyno subsides
4) Once completely off Nolva for at least 14 days, and test levels are steady from injections, consider HCG again.
5) Back off test dose a bit to allow room for the testosterone boost HCG will induce (I'm secondary)
6) Pray nipples hold off, else consider surgery. At this point I might just concede my nips are just too gyno prone. Even at a sensitive e of 9, I get major sensation.
The reality is I can deal with most side effects, but my gyno flares drive me crazy.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. My gut says I should have left HCG out until I was able to dial in the TRT, given my history of gyno and overall sensitivity to estrogen. Obviously the combo of both was very strong and caused my testosterone to skyrocket well beyond my body's limits. Somewhere I read Crisler actually has patients wait to start HCG for at least a month or two so test cyp doses can be dialed in.
Thanks,
Jim
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