End of TRT cycle, opinions and suggestions

[mikelaurey]

Hi to all guys!

First of all, I'm sorry for my English, so please excuse my typos!

I'm 31 years old and I do sports (boxe and body building) since I was young.
In the last 4-5 years, I experienced tiredness and low libido.
Since it was very strange (I got up tired every morning, even after 8 hours of sleep), I tried to check this situation with lots of doctors (cardiologists, neurologists, urologists), but they never find anything strange in me.
I spent lot of money in supplements (like maca, yohimbe, Tribulus terrestris and so on..) to try to get more energy, but nothing worked for me.

Few months ago, I did a visit to an andrologist and he said "all your symptons make me think about Low-testosterone, but it is not possible since you have muscles, beard and all the male features".
I did the blood tests anyway and I found out that I have low testosterone.

My doctor gave me testoviron 250mg, one injection each 20 days for three months.

After 5 days from the first inejction, everything changed! I gained my force again, my libido raised a lot and during all these three months I never experienced tiredness.

The doctor said me that it is better to don't take testosterone anymore since I could lose my fertility (I had my fertility test last year and it was very good!).
He suggested me to continue to live with low-testo levels since it is safer.

The problem is: I went to the doctor even because the sexual relation with my gf (future wife in few months) is not so good (without testosterone).
I had my last injection one month ago, and now I have again low-libido.

I would like to come back on my testo cyle, but I'm worried about the fertility.
I want to have children, obviously, I don't want to risk to become not fertile.

What are your suggestions about this?
I'm in Italy and doctors here are not familiar with these kind of drugs.

I would like to be on test for several years, but I'm scared about the conseguences.
It is possible to have children while on testo?
Or you need to stop the cycle, wait several months and then try it?

Thank you guys and sorry for my language!

 

[Milton]

Benvenuto! Did you ever get blood work done?

 

[Gainjin260]

If you have low test you shouldn't cycle TRT you should be on for life. That being said it can cause low/no sperm count. You can mitigate/reduce these side effects by using hcg at 250iu 2/wk, but that won't garuntee fertility.

My opinion: You should freeze sperm now and go back in TRT.

Many guys remain fertile while on TRT and many don't. Freezing sperm is a great insurance plan.

You also need to work on your TRT protocol. At minimum test should be taken once a week. Most guys split their weekly dose and inject twice a week. Normal doses are anywhere from 100-250mg split between two shots a week.

I'm surprised you didn't feel like crap by the 3rd week after your injection. If you have blood work please post it. What were your levels per-trt and while on TRT?

Welcome.

 

[mikelaurey]

Thank you guys for your answers.

I did the blood tests before to start the TRT cycle and these are the results:

Blood tests on september 2016:

Free testosterone: 17.10 pg/ml (10.00 - 50.00 for males)
Testosterone: 2.64 ng/ml (3.00 - 46.69 for males)
DHEAS: 609 microg/dl
Cortisol: 271 nmol/l (171 - 536 for males during morning)
DHT: 287 pg/ml (60 - 500 for males)
17-OH-progesterone: 1 ng/ml ( 1 - 5 for males)
TSH: 2.270 mIU/ml (0.270 - 4.200 for males)
FT3: 4.83 pmol/L (3.10 - 6.80 for males)
FSH: 2.45 Mu/ml
LH: 3.02
PRL: 8.79 (1.5 - 19 for males)
E2: 36 pg/ml
SHBG: 28 nmol/l (9 - 55 for males)

Testicle volume: 9.65 ml for the right testicle and 7.72 ml for the left testicle (test made on end of september 2016)

Unfortunately, I did not blood tests during the cycle.
The doctor said me that it I need to wait at least 2 months before take again the blood tests since now my testo level should be very low after the TRT.

I'm surprised you didn't feel like crap by the 3rd week after your injection.

Infact, I felt tired and with low libido after ten days after the injection.
In my opinion, I should have one injection each 10 days in order to avoid the "UP and DOWN" effect.
My doctor said that it is better to have 250 mg of testo each 20-30 days since it is more safe, but I do not agree with this.
By the way, I would like to be on testo since I felt very good during the last three months, but I'm worried about the fertility stuff.
Moreover, I should go to the hospital each time for the injection and this is time consuming (may be, testo tabs should be better?)

 

[SugarMouth]

TRT is not something you cycle. It's a lifetime commitment of externally adding testosterone instead of your body's natural production. Once you are on TRT your body will shut down and no longer make testosterone naturally and you will depend on your injections for that.

Injections should be done 1-3 times a week with 1 a week at minimum. You can add HCG to help retain fertility while on TRT.

 

[mikelaurey]

The problem is that when I did my blood test on november 2015, testosterone was at 4 ng/ml.

How can the testo level change in less than 12 months?

Moreover, is there any relation between low test and muscle growth?
Muscles should not grow when testo is low, is it true?
So why in my case, low testosterone only cause tiredness and low libido, but it do not interfere with my muscle growth?


Moreover, do you have any experience in testostorone pills (like Andriol, for example)?
I think it should be easier for me to take pills and not injections so I can avoid to meet a nurse each week.

Thank you, guys!

 

[IMT staff]

TRT cycle? No such thing.

 

[mikelaurey]

TRT cycle? No such thing.

Sorry guys, I would mean that the doctor said me to try a testosterone cycle for three months in order to check the situation and the improvements and then decide if go under TRT or not.

The doctor said that, sometimes, it can happen that the natural testosterone resets after a testo cycle..

 

[SugarMouth]

The doctor said that, sometimes, it can happen that the natural testosterone resets after a testo cycle..

You are kidding!?!?!

 

[mikelaurey]

You are kidding!?!?!

I'm serious, the doctor really said that!
I don't know what to do, now, since the effect of the last testo injection is finishing and I'm starting to feel sick again.

I can ask the doctor to prescribe me TRT, but I'm seriously worried about the fertily since I want to have kids and I've read on this forum that using HCG do not always work..

What kind of experience do you have? What are your suggestions?

 

[alphabravo]

Sorry guys, I would mean that the doctor said me to try a testosterone cycle for three months in order to check the situation and the improvements and then decide if go under TRT or not.

The doctor said that, sometimes, it can happen that the natural testosterone resets after a testo cycle..

After a SERM restart it's possible and works for some... was that what he was talking about?

If he thinks running test and stopping randomly can restart natural production then he needs to read some more, wouldn't surprise me as I've encountered some stupid docs myself... although I shouldn't say they're stupid because in all reality most are good in one area or another, but way to many docs think they understand TRT and are quick to use a terrible protocol. I have been kicked out of doctors offices after I educated them on TRT saying I'm an arrogant asshole and know it all, so many doctors refuse to be humble and admit I just don't know much about this area.

Keep in mind you can still be fertile with low T, the only real way to know your fertile is the testing. I agree with the folks above and think freezing is a good idea once you know your sperm is good to go then you can continue TRT happily. I've already had 3 kids so it wasn't a worry for me.

 

[IMT staff]

Its true that in rare cases testosterone treatment can help you regain adequate natural production. But not after 3 months the studies did it for a year (mostly, some were much longer than that).

On top of that it is only for a very specific type of hypogonadism called idiopathic hypogonadism.

In other words if you have the type of testosterone dysfunction that was associated with delayed onset puberty that may work.

Sounds like your doc knows very little about hypogonadism.

The criteria for the initial diagnosis of idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism were an age of at least 18 years, incomplete or absent puberty, a serum testosterone level less than 100 ng per deciliter (3.5 nmol per liter) in the presence of low or normal levels of gonadotropins, otherwise normal pituitary function, and normal hypothalamo pituitary imaging findings. The patients were studied either at the Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, or at Newcastle-upon-Tyne University Hospitals, Newcastle, United Kingdom. These studies were approved by the institutional human research committees, and all patients provided written informed consent.

Reversal of Idiopathic Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism can be congenital or acquired. Congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is divided into anosmic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (Kallmann syndrome) and congenital normosmic isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism). The incidence of congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is approximately 1-10:100,000 live births, and approximately 2/3 and 1/3 of cases are caused by Kallmann syndrome (KS) and idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, respectively.

Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism Revisited

 

[mikelaurey]

After a SERM restart it's possible and works for some... was that what he was talking about?

He just wanted to try a testoviron (slow acting testosterone enanthate) cycle for three months to see if the natural testosterone is able to restart by itself.

I already did my fertile test one or two years ago and my sperm analysis was pretty good.

Sounds like your doc knows very little about hypogonadism.

I think the doctor is a little bit confused since I have a very good muscle percentage (since i do bodybuilding), beard and all the male features and so he does not understand how I can have low-T.
May be something happened to my testicles during the last years.. even if my blood tests said that my testosterone was good one year ago.

Moreover, testosterone injections on buttock are difficult to do without the help of a nurse; i asked the doctor to take testosterone pills but he said that the effect is not as good as with the injections.

 

[Milton]

Sorry guys, I would mean that the doctor said me to try a testosterone cycle for three months in order to check the situation and the improvements and then decide if go under TRT or not.

The doctor said that, sometimes, it can happen that the natural testosterone resets after a testo cycle..

so did you tell your doc he was wrong about a trt cycle? TRT is for life.

 

[Milton]

The doctor said that, sometimes, it can happen that the natural testosterone resets after a testo cycle..

this is a blatant lie, I cannot wrap my head around your doc saying this to you other than he wants to fuck you up and take all your money with treatment.

 

[mikelaurey]

I will see my doctor in one month, since he said that we have to wait at leat two months after the last injection in order to check if testosterone is came back to its natural level (????).
He said me that he wants to try some natural methods like yohimbe or maca (???).. this is really crazy since I already tried them with no results.

Last year, I've been visited by another doctor and he said that I had no problems and he would not proceed with a testosterone therapy.

I really don't know what to do, I don't want to change this doctor too.. but I don't know who I have to trust since I don't want to lose my fertily for a doctor's error..

 

[alphabravo]

He just wanted to try a testoviron (slow acting testosterone enanthate) cycle for three months to see if the natural testosterone is able to restart by itself.

I already did my fertile test one or two years ago and my sperm analysis was pretty good.




I think the doctor is a little bit confused since I have a very good muscle percentage (since i do bodybuilding), beard and all the male features and so he does not understand how I can have low-T.
May be something happened to my testicles during the last years.. even if my blood tests said that my testosterone was good one year ago.

Moreover, testosterone injections on buttock are difficult to do without the help of a nurse; i asked the doctor to take testosterone pills but he said that the effect is not as good as with the injections.

Being fertile 1-2 years ago certainly doesn't mean you are now, even 3 months of T could of lowered your sperm count.

 

[SugarMouth]

I will see my doctor in one month, since he said that we have to wait at leat two months after the last injection in order to check if testosterone is came back to its natural level (????).

2 months after your last injection without post cycle therapy is not going to look good. I predict you show very low levels of testosterone when you pull labs at that point.

 

[mikelaurey]

I started to feel tired and sick from yesterday. In particular, today, It was terrible..
I don't know what to do for the moment since my andrologist doesn't seem to understand the situation.

 

[mikelaurey]

Hello again guys!

I did again my blood tests after about 8 months since my last testosterone injection (my doctor said me to only take three injections and the to stop).

This is my blood test:


Free testosterone: 10.1 pg/ml (15.00 - 50.00 for males) *LOW
Testosterone: 2.98 ng/ml (2.8 - 11 for males) *LOW
DHEAS: 248 microg/dl
Cortisol: 176 ng/ml (67 - 226 for males during morning)
DHT: 383 pg/ml (250 - 990 for males)
17-OH-progesterone: 1.11 ng/ml ( 0.5 - 2.1 for males)
TSH: 1.899 mIU/ml (0.270 - 4.200 for males)
FT3: 3.27 pg/ml (2.50 - 3.90 for males)
FSH: 3.60 Mu/ml
LH: 2.50 mIU/ml (1.5 - 10)
PRL: 8.70 ng/ml (2.64 - 13 for males)
E2: 30 pg/ml
SHBG: 33 nmol/l (10 - 73 for males)

Testicle volume: 9.65 ml for the right testicle and 7.72 ml for the left testicle (test made on end of september 2016)

Is it normal to have SHBG so high compared to my Testosterone?
If I use the formula: Concentration Testosterone = FT(free) + Alb-bound-T + [SHBG]-bound-T, if I suppose to have an average albumin conc. of 4.3 g/dL, I obtain Free Testosterone = 0.0588 ng/mL.
This value is different from what I get from my blood test (Free testosterone: 10.1 pg/ml), how is it possible?

I'm going to meet my doctor again, but I would like to receive some advices from you before to see him, so I will be able to ask him the correct questions.

Thank you!