First cycle - disappointed

[AverageMan]

I've been on TRT for over a year and am dialed in. My weekly TRT dose is 160mg cyp and 1mg adex split into E3.5D (so 80mg Cyp on Sun, wed).

I made a massive physique transformation going from low t (TT of 250) to my current TT on the above TRT dose is ~1100 as a trough (getting bloods day of pin but before pinning). E2 is right in range.

I'm 9 weeks into my first blast of 400mg test Cyp (pharma - not UGL) and just had labs done (day of pin but before pinning). everything is in range - E2, HCT, RBC, but my TT is only 1800.

Going from 160mg to 400mg / week of test cyp only raised my TT by 700 points? what gives?

Also, I've not noticed much (if any) difference in how I feel. Libido is good, but not out of control. strength is up a little (maybe 5-10 lbs max).

I'm 5'8' high 160's lbs. I was in the high 150's before starting the blast, so gainged about 10lbs. I did increase caloric intake 200-300 calories over maintenance. I lost a bunch of BF my dieting on TRT and dont want to gain it back my increasing calories too much.

Any thoughts on why TT is only 1800 on 400mg cyp / week?

 

[soldier74]

Give us your macro breakdown. Is protein intake where it needs to be. You prolly need more calories. U can up then some without worrying about getting fat as long as training is on point. Plus some what clean calories. If you want to bulk up ur going to gain a little fat..comes with the territory. That's why we cut.

 

[Megatron28]

1800ng/dl sounds about right for 400mg/week. See the attached results from a study.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

And I agree, it sounds like your diet could have been better if you were looking to bulk.

But why would you be disappointed in gaining 10 pounds? Let's say 7 of that is muscle. That is a lot in 9 weeks. Natty guys are often happy to put that much on in a year. How much were you expecting to gain on a 200 calorie surplus?

 

[BigSwolenPussy]

You gained 10 pounds in 9 weeks. What did you think you would gain? If your goal was to gain more weight, all you had to do is eat more.

 

[AverageMan]

Agree on the diet points. I have gained BF as my mid section is definitely softer, so I'm definitely in a caloric excess.

I'm on a carb cycling diet and have upped carbs while on cycle.

On a 5 day split (5 on 2 off). And cycle carbs. High on lift days and low on rest days

Marcos are 200/200/90. P/C/F

 

[oldmusclemike]

1800ng/dl sounds about right for 400mg/week. See the attached results from a study.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

And I agree, it sounds like your diet could have been better if you were looking to bulk.

But why would you be disappointed in gaining 10 pounds? Let's say 7 of that is muscle. That is a lot in 9 weeks. Natty guys are often happy to put that much on in a year. How much were you expecting to gain on a 200 calorie surplus?

Meg is right on here. You are trying to build LMM at least under a little fatty tissue. LOL This whole thing is a marathon, yea it takes time to build / grow muscle tissue. AAS does not do it. YOU do it with your diet and HARD ass training.... Hard training.

The AAS ONLY helps the synthesis. Depending on variables a man can only gain, build/ grow 15-20 lbs of LMM in ONE YEAR . Variables , age, history (time yrs) of training, number of cycles, past or present TRT and on.

Be patient, this process will take much longer then you think or want to believe

 

[Teutonic]

All good point s here AM.
400 is roughly double your trt.
9 weeks does not a re comp make -9 months does.
Think about it. The only thing I can do in 9 weeks is shred or shrink but that s my genetics.
Look at your whole life, your time on trt your lil blast of 9 week s and 10 pound s is about right. BRO--if 5 is LBM your killing me son. I can really give a more precise answer if I knew your life style and saw your body in a photo with a sock on. 1 sock.
What are your leg s like ? Back ? That s where the meat is not in the sock ur pec s or bi s. SatURDAY NIGHT muscle s get bigger when your whole body does.savvy ?
Run 600 for 16 weeks eat a bunch more, ( screw bloods people obsess over lil numbers. I ain t run an ai-ever) incorporate LOW INTENSITY AERO TO CHECK FAT AND THEN...post another avi.
My avi HAS ME AT 207; I m 212 now and it s a July photo..5 pounds IN 5 MONTH S and it s 60-40 fat . My grocery bill is 6-700 a month. I live alone.
Patience Luke....compound movements Danielson...food food food
.....eat rain rest roid s if you got em...
REPEAT

 

[soldier74]

All good point s here AM.
400 is roughly double your trt.
9 weeks does not a re comp make -9 months does.
Think about it. The only thing I can do in 9 weeks is shred or shrink but that s my genetics.
Look at your whole life, your time on trt your lil blast of 9 week s and 10 pound s is about right. BRO--if 5 is LBM your killing me son. I can really give a more precise answer if I knew your life style and saw your body in a photo with a sock on. 1 sock.
What are your leg s like ? Back ? That s where the meat is not in the sock ur pec s or bi s. SatURDAY NIGHT muscle s get bigger when your whole body does.savvy ?
Run 600 for 16 weeks eat a bunch more, ( screw bloods people obsess over lil numbers. I ain t run an ai-ever) incorporate LOW INTENSITY AERO TO CHECK FAT AND THEN...post another avi.
My avi HAS ME AT 207; I m 212 now and it s a July photo..5 pounds IN 5 MONTH S and it s 60-40 fat . My grocery bill is 6-700 a month. I live alone.
Patience Luke....compound movements Danielson...food food food
.....eat rain rest roid s if you got em...
REPEAT

Nice post T! At least the parts I could understand
Good to hear from ya ..again, finally.

 

[Therealkozmo]

All good point s here AM.
400 is roughly double your trt.
9 weeks does not a re comp make -9 months does.
Think about it. The only thing I can do in 9 weeks is shred or shrink but that s my genetics.
Look at your whole life, your time on trt your lil blast of 9 week s and 10 pound s is about right. BRO--if 5 is LBM your killing me son. I can really give a more precise answer if I knew your life style and saw your body in a photo with a sock on. 1 sock.
What are your leg s like ? Back ? That s where the meat is not in the sock ur pec s or bi s. SatURDAY NIGHT muscle s get bigger when your whole body does.savvy ?
Run 600 for 16 weeks eat a bunch more, ( screw bloods people obsess over lil numbers. I ain t run an ai-ever) incorporate LOW INTENSITY AERO TO CHECK FAT AND THEN...post another avi.
My avi HAS ME AT 207; I m 212 now and it s a July photo..5 pounds IN 5 MONTH S and it s 60-40 fat . My grocery bill is 6-700 a month. I live alone.
Patience Luke....compound movements Danielson...food food food
.....eat rain rest roid s if you got em...
REPEAT

never an ai wow. hows the prostate? any sides from not using ai's

 

[oldmusclemike]

never an ai wow. hows the prostate? any sides from not using ai's

Ya know back in the old days I didn't know anything about an AI. IN the beginning and when I was gaining greatly all I knew was stab my ass with Test and through in some Dbol eat and over train my ass off. Ha lol if that was possible at age 30-35. Hee hee over train...huh?

 

[Therealkozmo]

Ya know back in the old days I didn't know anything about an AI. IN the beginning and when I was gaining greatly all I knew was stab my ass with Test and through in some Dbol eat and over train my ass off. Ha lol if that was possible at age 30-35. Hee hee over train...huh?

YA no ai's in arnies day

 

[BigSwolenPussy]

Agree on the diet points. I have gained BF as my mid section is definitely softer, so I'm definitely in a caloric excess.

I'm on a carb cycling diet and have upped carbs while on cycle.

On a 5 day split (5 on 2 off). And cycle carbs. High on lift days and low on rest days

Marcos are 200/200/90. P/C/F

You are taking in 2400 calorie per day. That seems pretty low.

 

[BigSwolenPussy]

never an ai wow. hows the prostate? any sides from not using ai's

Truth be told, I only run them throughout during a cutting cycle. During all out bulking, I don't touch an AI unless the bloat gets too much to deal with otherwise.

 

[Roush]

your test went from 1100 ng/dl to 1800 ng/dl . thats not exactly a supra-physiological level. gains are going to be minimal , thats about enough test to keep you anti-catabolic when dieting. you can't expect a whole lot of mass gains out of that plus only being at a slight calorie surplus.
being on TRT your body is already accustomed to exogenous test (even possibly a bit 'de-sensitized' at this point) , all you did with this blast was elevate that a bit. so nothing dramatic is to be expected.

if your looking for more dramatic massing effects from a blast, then your going to need to run whatever dosage of test will get you to supra-physiological levels, 5000-10,000 ng/dl (not 1800). OR even better yet , from my own experience being on TRT for years , I find that blasting with other compounds works way better then trying to blast with just test (being I've been on test for years, high dosages don't seem to do a lot for me anymore other then cause negative sides).

you can just stay on your TRT dose , and blast another compound like NPP, Dbol, Tren, Ment, etc. and let those compounds do the work. can be a lot more effective then just trying to up your test.

also , as noted above by some of the guys , don't need to be super aggressive with your AI if making mass gains is your main goal , having some water retention and elevated estrogen can help with gains and strength for bulking

 

[Teutonic]

My mammary s were cut out in 87 so there s that AND I do not do crazy 1 gram of this one gram of that with enuff oral s to look like M and M s cycle s either.

The one time I did nolva my one eyes vision blurred so

We all got to find how we react to AAS how to use them to reach a goal and so forth. My goal is to stay where I am just leaner vs fuller at times; it s winter so I m eating any and everything and down here our local cuisine is awesome but awful for cut s.

 

[AverageMan]

your test went from 1100 ng/dl to 1800 ng/dl . thats not exactly a supra-physiological level. gains are going to be minimal , thats about enough test to keep you anti-catabolic when dieting. you can't expect a whole lot of mass gains out of that plus only being at a slight calorie surplus.
being on TRT your body is already accustomed to exogenous test (even possibly a bit 'de-sensitized' at this point) , all you did with this blast was elevate that a bit. so nothing dramatic is to be expected.

if your looking for more dramatic massing effects from a blast, then your going to need to run whatever dosage of test will get you to supra-physiological levels, 5000-10,000 ng/dl (not 1800). OR even better yet , from my own experience being on TRT for years , I find that blasting with other compounds works way better then trying to blast with just test (being I've been on test for years, high dosages don't seem to do a lot for me anymore other then cause negative sides).

you can just stay on your TRT dose , and blast another compound like NPP, Dbol, Tren, Ment, etc. and let those compounds do the work. can be a lot more effective then just trying to up your test.

also , as noted above by some of the guys , don't need to be super aggressive with your AI if making mass gains is your main goal , having some water retention and elevated estrogen can help with gains and strength for bulking

I was trying to be conservative and go the noob route with test only blast to see how body responds. I'm all about following the tried and true beaten path.

I did get a little agressive with AI and recently backed down a bit.

Overall I agree with the comments - eat more and train hard.

I lift hard for 1.5 hours 5x a week - reverse pyramid (3js approach).

Also do 1/2 hour of low intensity cardio for good health and warm up.

To your point, my next run will not be a test blast but rather something else (Deca, etc)

Agree that I shouldn't expect stellar results from an additional 700 TT either. Also I've already soaked up all the noob gains from the TRT run.

Appreciate all the feedback

 

[luckypaul]

There is nothing wrong with your test.being 1800 the day before your injection. If you had taken blood 30 hours after your injection it would probably have been closer to 4000.

 

[SJC]

That's why i don't shoot more than 250mg a week of test anymore. I add different compounds. Dbol, Drol, NPP, Tren. Honestly Test is so so to me as far as gains go.

Its also not linear when it comes to injecting more test. Doubling your test dose doesn't always mean you with double our total T.

 

[juced_porkchop]

1800ng/dl sounds about right for 400mg/week. See the attached results from a study.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

And I agree, it sounds like your diet could have been better if you were looking to bulk.

But why would you be disappointed in gaining 10 pounds? Let's say 7 of that is muscle. That is a lot in 9 weeks. Natty guys are often happy to put that much on in a year. How much were you expecting to gain on a 200 calorie surplus?

and many are happy with 10-15lb IN A YEAR even with aas, after training for many years but still. i would not complain with 10lb in 16 weeks let alone 9. maybe you just expect too much.

 

[Milton]

when do you plan on starting your next cycle?