First cycle - disappointed

[Therealkozmo]

your test went from 1100 ng/dl to 1800 ng/dl . thats not exactly a supra-physiological level. gains are going to be minimal , thats about enough test to keep you anti-catabolic when dieting. you can't expect a whole lot of mass gains out of that plus only being at a slight calorie surplus.
being on TRT your body is already accustomed to exogenous test (even possibly a bit 'de-sensitized' at this point) , all you did with this blast was elevate that a bit. so nothing dramatic is to be expected.

if your looking for more dramatic massing effects from a blast, then your going to need to run whatever dosage of test will get you to supra-physiological levels, 5000-10,000 ng/dl (not 1800). OR even better yet , from my own experience being on TRT for years , I find that blasting with other compounds works way better then trying to blast with just test (being I've been on test for years, high dosages don't seem to do a lot for me anymore other then cause negative sides).

you can just stay on your TRT dose , and blast another compound like NPP, Dbol, Tren, Ment, etc. and let those compounds do the work. can be a lot more effective then just trying to up your test.

also , as noted above by some of the guys , don't need to be super aggressive with your AI if making mass gains is your main goal , having some water retention and elevated estrogen can help with gains and strength for bulking

what evidence do you have that above 1200 is not supra-physiological

 

[Roush]

what evidence do you have that above 1200 is not supra-physiological

1200 is possible naturally .

definition of supra physiological .
""Indicating a dose that is larger or more potent than would occur naturally, as of a chemical agent that mimics a hormone. Of or relating to the physiological effects of such a dose.""

 

[oldmusclemike]

Quote from Roush :
also , as noted above by some of the guys , don't need to be super aggressive with your AI if making mass gains is your main goal , having some water retention and elevated estrogen can help with gains and strength for bulking

This is so true and note worthy...^^^^^^^^^

Sometime MASS moves MASS so get it ... the more you weight, and you lift can effect your strength gains ergo building more MM ... That was what we did a lot of in the old days. Just got fvckin as big as we could water and all. Strength got good and everything went up. Then we would cut AFTER we would BULK for LONG periods. None of this crap bulk and cut in one cycle... How much real MM are you gonna grow in 8 weeks and then to cut...Huh...?

 

[Therealkozmo]

1200 is possible naturally .

definition of supra physiological .
""Indicating a dose that is larger or more potent than would occur naturally, as of a chemical agent that mimics a hormone. Of or relating to the physiological effects of such a dose.""

I agree now is 1300 possible naturally. If so please direct me to the evidence

 

[SJC]

also , as noted above by some of the guys , don't need to be super aggressive with your AI if making mass gains is your main goal , having some water retention and elevated estrogen can help with gains and strength for bulking

This as well^ Estradiol is very androgenic. Although you don't want it to get out of hand it does help in the building of muscle.

 

[omgmike1]

1800ng/dl sounds about right for 400mg/week. See the attached results from a study.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

And I agree, it sounds like your diet could have been better if you were looking to bulk.

But why would you be disappointed in gaining 10 pounds? Let's say 7 of that is muscle. That is a lot in 9 weeks. Natty guys are often happy to put that much on in a year. How much were you expecting to gain on a 200 calorie surplus?

Any studys or general ideas for up to 750, 1g maybe? It isn't a rise in a steady rate is it?

 

[Roush]

I agree now is 1300 possible naturally. If so please direct me to the evidence

I'm sure we can all agree that 4,000 - 10,000 ng/dl is not possible naturally , so THAT is therefore a supraphysioligical dose, without debate or question.
1,300 can very well be possible naturally, so can 1350 , or maybe 1400 , who knows . but we do know 10,000 ngdl is not natural