First cycle in 14 years... test and var

[TheGame_620]

Hi everyone.


As stated in the title. After taking an extremely long break from AAS I am now semi prepared ( have gear) to start a cycle. I am now 38 yo. The last cycle I did was when I was about 24-25.
Back then I did a couple shows ... off season during my last cycle I was around 240-250 lbs at around 10 percent BF . I did quite a bit of aas during my early 20's. It was pretty much just one long cycle from age 19-24.
I stopped aas, and I also stopped going to they gym regularly. My physical shape has been up and down hill ever since. Ive had good years at the gym and complete off years.

Ive been hitting the gym regularly for the past year, and trying to get back into shape. I really want to cut up , as I am naturally a pretty big guy and dont need/want to bulk.
I am 5'11 and 225 at this time. Its hard for me to approximate Body fat percentage at my current age, but i have a 4 pack (15-18 percent maybe) if that helps get an idea.

This is what I plan to do.

600 mg test ethan / week for 12 weeks
50-60 mg anavar /day for 4-6 weeks ( have enough to go 6)
.
I also have nolvadex, and HCG as well as arimidex.
I plan to use the HCG at the end of the cycle along with the nolv. the arimidex I will keep on hand and use as needed .

I ordered
NAC
coq10
sloniacin
psyllium husk
fish oil
tudca
Whats everyone using nowdays for a multi viatamin?

What do you guys think?
Do I have all my bases covered?

PS

Its good to be back!!!

Thanks for the input!

 

[PapaNoel]

A lot have changed the last 14 years...
You dont need the var, it will be like your first cycle all over again.
You should use HCG throughout the cycle, not at the end and definitely not in pct.
For 600mg test e /wk you will need to run adex throughout and "not as needed" otherwise you'll be bloated as fuck.
Where is clomid ?
If you're at 18% bf you should drop that down to at least 13-15% before starting.

So yeh, go read the beginner sticky please.

 

[TheGame_620]

A lot have changed the last 14 years...
You dont need the var, it will be like your first cycle all over again.
You should use HCG throughout the cycle, not at the end and definitely not in pct.
For 600mg test e /wk you will need to run adex throughout and "not as needed" otherwise you'll be bloated as fuck.
Where is clomid ?
If you're at 18% bf you should drop that down to at least 13-15% before starting.

So yeh, go read the beginner sticky please.

Well as stated. I'm not really sure of my of my bf percentage. I might not be 18. I just know that as you get older your bf percentage goes up regardless of how you look.
Also I did have blood work done and my liver values as well as lipids are all good.

Some people say use Dex as needed. I know that if I start getting bloated or get itchy nips that I should start 1 mg Ed or EOD.
Clomid... Isn't the nolvadex just as good if not better than clomid?
I'll read the beginners section as you suggested and try to learn from that.
I'm not really certain on the hcg use and I've been reading about it and I know there's a sticky here so I'll read that as well however I do know hcg use is controversial.

But why do you say not to use the var?


Thanks.

 

[Body_weight02]

Most people run an AI like adex from the start of the cycle to avoid all the nasty sides of high E like the bloat or gyno symptoms you mentioned, basically stay on top of it before it becomes a problem. 1mg Ed or EOD is way too much, probably be closer to 1mg a week (0.5mg E3.5d)
HCG protocol is from start to 3 days prior to pct. I’ve seen dosages vary from person to person or forum to forum, but 500iu E3.5d I think is the consensus here.
There is a read here somewhere about why using both clomid and navaladex together is superior, but I know on some other forums they have info to the apposing.
I agree with Santa, read up cause things have changed a lot from 14 years ago. I personally wasn’t doing my gear then, but know several guys who were and what was basic cycling then is considered obsolete now.
All you can do is read up and draw your own best conclusion...good luck

 

[TheGame_620]

Most people run an AI like adex from the start of the cycle to avoid all the nasty sides of high E like the bloat or gyno symptoms you mentioned, basically stay on top of it before it becomes a problem. 1mg Ed or EOD is way too much, probably be closer to 1mg a week (0.5mg E3.5d)
HCG protocol is from start to 3 days prior to pct. I’ve seen dosages vary from person to person or forum to forum, but 500iu E3.5d I think is the consensus here.
There is a read here somewhere about why using both clomid and navaladex together is superior, but I know on some other forums they have info to the apposing.
I agree with Santa, read up cause things have changed a lot from 14 years ago. I personally wasn’t doing my gear then, but know several guys who were and what was basic cycling then is considered obsolete now.
All you can do is read up and draw your own best conclusion...good luck

Yeah, I've been reading and reading for a couple weeks now. There's just so much opposing information on the web . Which is why I thought I'd make an opening post.
I'll order some clomid. It's best to have it on hand anyways. I read on other forums that nolvadex was superior and that you shouldn't use clomid. I wish I just ordered it from the start.
As far as the Dex. I only meant 1 mg/ day as a Kickstarter if adverse side effects arose. And once the side effects ( bloat itchy nipples etc) went away to drop the dose.
But this is another controversial topic. Ive read many peoples posts that promote" only using AI when needed". Maybe that's an old school method?
I like your idea of 1 mg/ week.

The hcg sticky here is excellent, very informative and makes perfect sense. I do have 2 5000 iu kits. I'm going to order some slin needles and do the freezing method. So I should have more than enough hcg .


So what I've changed thus far is. I'm ordering clomid,. I'll take the arimidex starting the second week at 1 mg/ week( I figure the long ester of enanth that Dex is a waste in the first week, correct me if I'm wrong)
Hcg throughout the cycle instead of towards the end of the cycle

Thanks for your input!

 

[IMT]

Yeah, I've been reading and reading for a couple weeks now. There's just so much opposing information on the web . Which is why I thought I'd make an opening post.
I'll order some clomid. It's best to have it on hand anyways. I read on other forums that nolvadex was superior and that you shouldn't use clomid. I wish I just ordered it from the start.
As far as the Dex. I only meant 1 mg/ day as a Kickstarter if adverse side effects arose. And once the side effects ( bloat itchy nipples etc) went away to drop the dose.
But this is another controversial topic. Ive read many peoples posts that promote" only using AI when needed". Maybe that's an old school method?
I like your idea of 1 mg/ week.

The hcg sticky here is excellent, very informative and makes perfect sense. I do have 2 5000 iu kits. I'm going to order some slin needles and do the freezing method. So I should have more than enough hcg .


So what I've changed thus far is. I'm ordering clomid,. I'll take the arimidex starting the second week at 1 mg/ week( I figure the long ester of enanth that Dex is a waste in the first week, correct me if I'm wrong)
Hcg throughout the cycle instead of towards the end of the cycle

Thanks for your input!

Yes applying preventive tactiques like taking an Ai throughout your cycle instead of waiting for sides to show is better way to go.

 

[scorob777]

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. You'll find all kinds of conflicting info, which if you have a preconception can lead you astray - meaning you can find opinions on the web to back up any wacky theory.

Around here HCG is recommended from start up to start of PCT 250 E3.5d is a minimum and 500 is better if you can swing it. It will make you produce more testosterone, with knockon effect of more E2, so reinforces need to take AI from the start. Your plan of 1mg/d to kick it off if needed is not good, way too much. Better to take 0.25 EOD to start and keep it there until getting a blood test at around 7 or 8 weeks in to dial it in.

And for PCT ignore all the conflicting info, nolva and clomid together is the best. If you get the timing right you can cut your clomid dose to 50mg/d max and avoid problems some can have by taking 100 mg/d or higher, which is unnecessary.

 

[TheGame_620]

Thanks,

Yes I am going to do the dex from day one as you suggested. I kinda wish I had gotten aromisin instead but I guess ill do that next time. ( this is because originally I was planning on refraining from using the AI as long as I could.
and yes I get it . the HCG causes additional aromatization so that makes perfect sense that Ill need the AI right away.

Question? so you're saying to use 500 iu of HCG every 3.5 days for a total of 1000iu/week? I do have 10000 iu's so I can just about swing this... maybe start the first 2 weeks with 500 iu total.

I just ordered a blood test with lipids so that I can know my baseline before I start. Hope to go get the blood drawn today!

Thanks for the input

 

[PapaNoel]

500 iu HCG per week will be enough.
250iu along with your test e shots, twice per week will be good.

About adex. It only prevents new conversion and does not lower existing estrogen levels.
So there's really no point doing a "kick starter", that will most likely just throw everything off balance and spin you into a roller coaster. Can take weeks to stabilize.

Be consistent with everything throughout the cycle bro.

 

[TheGame_620]

500 iu HCG per week will be enough.
250iu along with your test e shots, twice per week will be good.

About adex. It only prevents new conversion and does not lower existing estrogen levels.
So there's really no point doing a "kick starter", that will most likely just throw everything off balance and spin you into a roller coaster. Can take weeks to stabilize.

Be consistent with everything throughout the cycle bro.

Thanks for clarifying the hcg dose. And yeah I didn't think of that about the dex. Dex is an AI so it can't help with existing high estrogen. It only helps with aromitization. So my original theory was double debunked. Would probably need to take nolvadex during cycle if high estrogen symptoms started occurring.

Anyways I'm already sold on using the Dex throughout the cycle as everyone has suggested.
I'm really happy that I took the time to check with you guys on this forum and that I've been set straight.
The research I did over the past 3-4 weeks had doing it all wrong. Ie not taking AI until symptoms arise, using hcg towards the end of the cycle and using only nolvadex for PCT.


Sidenote. Got my blood taken today so I should know my normal levels soon.

 

[MrDavid9000]

I never understood the whole Anastrozole vs Letrozole thing... I just keep letrozole on hand always, if you don’t need that much then quarter the tablet, and take as needed.... however, in my last few cycles I started taking my Ai two weeks prior before starting my cycle, I can’t remember where I read this article but the point of it was to take an Ai before you take hormone to bond to the estrogen receptor first so nothing else has a chance... I tried it and it did make a big difference.

 

[Nicky_eye_lids]

Was there even gear 14 years ago? lol. Just breaking balls brother! Good to have you here and learning how to do it right.
Looking good so far. When do you kick off this cycle? and good that you noted that Ai is to be used to prevent instead of getting rid of gyno.

 

[TheGame_620]

So an update..
Blood work shows my T levels were at 654... not sure if that's good or bad. but my assumption is that its middle of the road for a 38 year old. Maybe if I loose some weight(fat) my natural T levels could rise a bit.


I started my cycle at 600 test e /week; arimidex at .25 eod and hcg at 500/week.
I am holding off on the var for now. I might not use it at all.. or I might start it after week 7 after I get my mid cycle blood work. If all looks good on the blood work, and IF I feel that I actually need an extra boost then Ill run the var into week 12.


Right now I am VERY happy. I started my first pin last wednesday and I was feeling better pumps in the gym by Friday!. My workouts this week have been phenomenal and better than than they have been in years. I cant wait to see what week 5 is going to feel like!

 

[Body_weight02]

So an update..
Blood work shows my T levels were at 654... not sure if that's good or bad. but my assumption is that its middle of the road for a 38 year old. Maybe if I loose some weight(fat) my natural T levels could rise a bit.


I started my cycle at 600 test e /week; arimidex at .25 eod and hcg at 500/week.
I am holding off on the var for now. I might not use it at all.. or I might start it after week 7 after I get my mid cycle blood work. If all looks good on the blood work, and IF I feel that I actually need an extra boost then Ill run the var into week 12.


Right now I am VERY happy. I started my first pin last wednesday and I was feeling better pumps in the gym by Friday!. My workouts this week have been phenomenal and better than than they have been in years. I cant wait to see what week 5 is going to feel like!

T in the mid 600’s at 38 I’d say is above average...par for the course anyway.
Cycle looks good to me. Looks like you took the advice given.
You didn’t mention, but you’ll be advised to add clomid to your pct.

 

[Trevdog]

I don't agree with the claim that a lot has changed in 14 years and I've been on for 15 years and was a moderator of this board for quite a few years before and during the 15 years I've been on. There's really nothing wrong with your plan. Although I do prefer to take a small dose of aromasin all the time, I do not need to and 600 mgs. of test per week will not bloat me up significantly with no anti estrogen at all. If I was going to come off I would probably use both clomid and nolvadex and if I had to choose one or the other I would go with nolva. In my mind the only reason to hold off cycling at a higher bf would be for a person who is sensitive to estrogen. Otherwise adding LBM just increases the amount of calories you burn at rest so it makes it easier to get lean after bulking.

 

[PapaNoel]

I do not need to and 600 mgs. of test per week will not bloat me up significantly with no anti estrogen at all.

Having read your other thread, I somehow doubt that as you've described getting high estrogen and even the sides associated with it. But i digress, you seem to have been around a while...

 

[PapaNoel]

So an update..
Blood work shows my T levels were at 654... not sure if that's good or bad. but my assumption is that its middle of the road for a 38 year old. Maybe if I loose some weight(fat) my natural T levels could rise a bit.

For 38 years old thats pretty fantastic values...
I'm 33 and my optimal values are 600. (Sadly, i'm around 400-450 off cycle but I reach 1100 on 50mg clomid ed...)

Should be very happy with those values bro