First ever cycle- Test+Winstrol

[drekpek]

Hello everybody. Before you attack me, i have read number of threads and verious websites about first time users, first time cycles. My plan at first was to go all oral, well...that would be a big mistake. So this is what i came up with.

First I must say I have never used steroids before. This cycle is more or less a "test" cycle, to see how my body react to different dosages. I dont think its very wise to mix number of steroids to fist time user, or am i wrong?

Well, it started with simple Testosteron, but im a bit confused about the dosages? Then I plan to add Winstrol, to cut a little fat, as this is my primary plan. Finish up with 3 weeks off, then PCT with Nolvadex.

I made a table to simplify things.

So long story short:
Age: 24
Height: 170cm
Weight: 73-74kg
Bf: 11-12%
Goal: Retain muscle, drop 2-3% bf, overall performance, test cycle for later cycles to see how body react.

TABLE. week. steroid. dosages:
s3.postimg.org/80awt3var/cycle.jpg



So, what do you guys think?
Thank you for your help

 

[drekpek]

postimg.org/image/t9yj3yblb

 

[drekpek]

Just copy this link s3.postimg.org/80awt3var/cycle.jpg to your web browser

 

[YODATRON]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ycling-beginners-guide-safe-androgen-use.html
read this it may help you but your missing an AI

 

[SamSport]

Winny doesn't really reduce bodyfat. It will reduce the bloat though, wich will make you look leaner. Get an AI in case you get unwanted sides from too high estro; personally at 500mg I don't use AI but I always have it on hand, in case gyno start appearing. Other than that your cycle look good, winny for 6 weeks is ok; its hard on lipid though

 

[drekpek]

Thanks for advice on AI, got that checked now.

Would you recommend anavar istead of winstrol?

I dont wanna go crazy on my first cycle. Probally will have a great effect from testo alone.

 

[JackedCanada]

Just run the test brotha! Great results,

 

[Southernfish]

Run an AI from day one, I don't care what anyone says, you run an AI from day one, it doesn't matter if you see puffy nipple or feel hard lumps under your nipples, run it from the start, because Test WILL aromatize no matter what and without and AI you will have skyhigh estrogen levels that will cause you a lot of unwanted side effects.

Drop the Winny and do this................... 500mg per week of Test E for 12 weeks + Adex or Aromasin, and on the 15th days after your last shot run your PCT, it would be wise to get pre mid and post cycle bloodwork done to see exactly what is going on and if there are complication you will be able to catch them and counteract them. The biggest piece of advice would be to read everything you can on the subject at hand, learn the ins and outs and everything in between, doing this will allow you to make educated decisions on what you are doing. And for god sake run an AI form the beginning, this is a topic that shouldn't even be up for debate.

 

[kevlarcash2]

What Schredder said.

 

[SamSport]

Run an AI from day one, I don't care what anyone says, you run an AI from day one, it doesn't matter if you see puffy nipple or feel hard lumps under your nipples, run it from the start, because Test WILL aromatize no matter what and without and AI you will have skyhigh estrogen levels that will cause you a lot of unwanted side effects.

Drop the Winny and do this................... 500mg per week of Test E for 12 weeks + Adex or Aromasin, and on the 15th days after your last shot run your PCT, it would be wise to get pre mid and post cycle bloodwork done to see exactly what is going on and if there are complication you will be able to catch them and counteract them. The biggest piece of advice would be to read everything you can on the subject at hand, learn the ins and outs and everything in between, doing this will allow you to make educated decisions on what you are doing. And for god sake run an AI form the beginning, this is a topic that shouldn't even be up for debate.

you and me don't produce the same amount of estrogen. its better to learn if you're prone to it or not instead of blindly taking AI pills that you dont necessarily need; this is the way you learn about your body. When you start you'Re cycle your estrogen will not be high at all, tasking an AI from the begining is also not necessary. you have the right to have your opînion, but this topic is definatly up for debate.

 

[Southernfish]

Yes we do produce different amounts of estrogen. But, when we inject exogenous testosterone into our body it binds to what we call the aromatize enzyme and then we have the Test convert into estrogen, plain and simple, this happens to every one of us. An AI is run to prevent the conversion from happening, and the conversion will happen. It binds to the aromatize enzyme before Test can therefor 'all the seats are taken' so to speak so Test cant sit down and convert. Thats why an AI needs to be run from day one, no one is prone to conversion. And how we learn whats going on in our bodies is through bloodwork, i for one dont blindly take an AI, i get bloodwork done so that i take just enough of an AI so my estrogen is within normal range, what is you method or learning is your prone to estrogen?

 

[Kazmir]

Personally I agree with Schredder, an AI should be run regardless. Having it on hand is like using the pull out method for birth control. Sure it may work for a bit but once it doesn't its too late and your stuck with the consequences and dealing with something you didn't need to to begin with. Its preventative use of a tool in our toolbox. I can say from personal use that once you have an issue with high E2 and gyno then you will be extremely prone to it for the rest of the time you ever cycle.

I know guys that run 3-5g without an AI and they are fine but why take the chance when you don't have to.

 

[SamSport]

Yes we do produce different amounts of estrogen. But, when we inject exogenous testosterone into our body it binds to what we call the aromatize enzyme and then we have the Test convert into estrogen, plain and simple, this happens to every one of us. An AI is run to prevent the conversion from happening, and the conversion will happen. It binds to the aromatize enzyme before Test can therefor 'all the seats are taken' so to speak so Test cant sit down and convert. Thats why an AI needs to be run from day one, no one is prone to conversion. And how we learn whats going on in our bodies is through bloodwork, i for one dont blindly take an AI, i get bloodwork done so that i take just enough of an AI so my estrogen is within normal range, what is you method or learning is your prone to estrogen?

BF% effect conversion, at 11-12% BF he shouldn't produce much. He only run 500mg/week, If he monitor his sides he's good to go. Bloodwork is the safest way to go, but lets be honest here.... many users don't get bloodwork DURING cycle.. you can get away with only checking sides, especially at that dose/BF%.... having some estrogen on cycle has some benefits, its not evil

 

[SamSport]

Personally I agree with Schredder, an AI should be run regardless. Having it on hand is like using the pull out method for birth control. Sure it may work for a bit but once it doesn't its too late and your stuck with the consequences and dealing with something you didn't need to to begin with. Its preventative use of a tool in our toolbox. I can say from personal use that once you have an issue with high E2 and gyno then you will be extremely prone to it for the rest of the time you ever cycle.

I know guys that run 3-5g without an AI and they are fine but why take the chance when you don't have to.

man come on, the consequences are totally different between ''pull out method'' and using an AI or not... Its an extreme comparison to say the least. His dose is low and is BF% also, personally I prefer to learn if I'm prone to estro than simply taking an AI and never knowing. And when you start getting estro side effect its not ''too late'' to do something.. if you wait 1-2 months after you get sides then yeah, its definatly too late. There's many side effect of estro.. not only gyno; BP/bloat would be something to monitor also

 

[Southernfish]

BF% effect conversion, at 11-12% BF he shouldn't produce much. He only run 500mg/week, If he monitor his sides he's good to go. Bloodwork is the safest way to go, but lets be honest here.... many users don't get bloodwork DURING cycle.. you can get away with only checking sides, especially at that dose/BF%.... having some estrogen on cycle has some benefits, its not evil

That just seems like to much of a haphazardly way of approaching things, i look at it like a car and its maintenance, are going to do preventative maintenance to ensure your car doesnt develop issues that are going to cause alot of money to be spent and possibly ruining the car, or have it never run the same, or are we going to avoid everything we know is probably best and wait until the thing start to fail and make noise and leak and all that. I do agree that some people have more of an issue with aromatization, but why take a chance, especially if no bloodwork is being done, estrogen is a female hormone that males do not want much of. And monitoring sides isnt a sure bet in my books to tell if estrogen is in check.

And im not gettin on your case, i just dont want the OP to down the road be fucked up over something he could have helped, ive been at this a long time and seen many dudes with permanent issue because of something as simple as not doing proper maintenance.

 

[SamSport]

That just seems like to much of a haphazardly way of approaching things, i look at it like a car and its maintenance, are going to do preventative maintenance to ensure your car doesnt develop issues that are going to cause alot of money to be spent and possibly ruining the car, or have it never run the same, or are we going to avoid everything we know is probably best and wait until the thing start to fail and make noise and leak and all that. I do agree that some people have more of an issue with aromatization, but why take a chance, especially if no bloodwork is being done, estrogen is a female hormone that males do not want much of. And monitoring sides isnt a sure bet in my books to tell if estrogen is in check.

And im not gettin on your case, i just dont want the OP to down the road be fucked up over something he could have helped, ive been at this a long time and seen many dudes with permanent issue because of stupidity.

I'd take a chance to know more about the way I react to compounds; but at this point I think its more of a personnal way of approaching things.. I think comparing it to car maintenance is a little extreme; having some estro sides wont ruin your body (if you get to manage it). Bloodwork is always the way to go I can only agree with this, but personally I believe that at 500mg/week the risk are limited. But we all have different ways of approching things, and its all good

 

[Southernfish]

Hey i hear (see) what your saying, if you been at this for enough time you would start to be very in tune with your body, but being a first time user hes gonna have a hard time knowing what to look for and if what he feels like is an estrogen issue or not.

 

[YODATRON]

Hey i hear (see) what your saying, if you been at this for enough time you would start to be very in tune with your body, but being a first time user hes gonna have a hard time knowing what to look for and if what he feels like is an estrogen issue or not.

I agree with both Schredder and Kaz I would rather be safe then sorry and thats what you should be teaching if people wanna try something else its up to them .

 

[SamSport]

Hey i hear (see) what your saying, if you been at this for enough time you would start to be very in tune with your body, but being a first time user hes gonna have a hard time knowing what to look for and if what he feels like is an estrogen issue or not.

yeah spotting estrogen sides when you never dealed with it could be an issue; you gotta read a lot on it if you wanna go my route.. but still, experience has to come from somewhere

 

[Southernfish]

yeah spotting estrogen sides when you never dealed with it could be an issue; you gotta read a lot on it if you wanna go my route.. but still, experience has to come from somewhere

Do you get your bloodpressure checked on a regular basis, or do any bloodwork?