First Time Tren Cycle Advice

[GymRatRoider]

I'm looking to run my first Tren cycle and would like some advice on my gear. Here's what I'm planning:

CYCLE:
WK 1-8: 45MG TrenA ED (315MG weekly)
WK 1-8: 25MG TestP ED (175MG weekly)
WK 1-8: .25MG Cabergoline (Dostinex) 2x WK
WK 1-8: .5MG Arimidex EOD (ONLY if needed)

HCG:
WK 1-6: 250IUs HCG 2x WK
WK 7: 750IUs HCG ED for last 3 days
WK 7: .25MG Arimidex on day 4

PCT:
WK 9-13: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/10
WK 9 on Supplements: Testojack 200, D-Aspartic Acid, DHEA, Indole 3 Carbinol, Resveratrol, ZMA

Here's some random thoughts on how I arrived at this plan:
* I chose Tren mainly because of its reputation for promoting lean mass gains
* The Tren dosage is relatively low which fits well with my inexperience (but should still give good results)
* I'm using TrenA due to potential unknown sides with me since its HL is short
* I'm going to run with ED pins to keep blood levels smooth
* The TestP dosage seems to be all that's needed with Tren and should help keep sides low
* I'm using Caber to address the Prolactin issue with Tren (and keep my libido up during cycle)
* I'm going to keep some Arimidex on hand but I'm not expecting to need it during cycle with the lower Test dosage
* I'm using HCG to prevent testicular atrophy and keep natural Test production going
* The .25MG Arimidex on WK 7, day 4 of HCG is to minimize estrogen due to the extra HCG shock

I feel pretty confident about the TrenA & TestP dosages and the Caber usage. I'm a little less confident in the HCG protocol and PCT. Any advice on any of the above is certainly appreciated!

As for me, I'm early 50s, 5'7", 170lbs, around 14%BF. Very experienced in the gym but fairly new to AAS, only running a couple of Sustanon cycles so far. My goals are primarily improved body composition with the addition of some lean mass also very desirable. Reducing sides and of course minimizing any potential negative long term effects is also very important to me.

 

[scorob777]

Looks good to me. You might get some grief over doing tren after just a couple sustanon cycles, but it looks to me like you have done your homework and have a good plan.

The Adex at 0.5mg EOD is too much for 175 mg test, I know it's only if needed, but you could cut that in half.

Week 9-13 throw in clomid too at 50/50/50/25/25

 

[3J]

only issue i see is pct..

wait 2 weeks after last inject to start and get some clomid 50mg ed for 4 weeks with the nolva..

good luck!

 

[tbonexl]

only issue i see is pct..

wait 2 weeks after last inject to start and get some clomid 50mg ed for 4 weeks with the nolva..

good luck!

Using test prop so 5-7 days would be the normal...

 

[GymRatRoider]

Looks good to me. You might get some grief over doing tren after just a couple sustanon cycles, but it looks to me like you have done your homework and have a good plan.

The Adex at 0.5mg EOD is too much for 175 mg test, I know it's only if needed, but you could cut that in half.

Week 9-13 throw in clomid too at 50/50/50/25/25

Yeah I've heard some of that already, lol but after researching all of various "popular" ones Tren seems to be the way to go for me and my goals. Thanks for the encouragement on the cycle details though!

As far as the Clomid goes, that was an area that I spent a lot of time looking into and like most of this there seems to be a LOT of conflicting information. The consensus seemed to be that running two different SERMs for PCT was unnecessary and I landed on Nova since it seemed a little easier on the sides (the potential for vision problems with Clomid really concerned me). In your experience has it been better to run both Nova and Clomid together? What's the rationale? I'm not arguing BTW, just trying to understand. Thanks.

 

[scorob777]

They work synergistically together, the two together are better than either one alone. If you had to choose only one I'd pick clomid.

You won't have vision problems at 50 mg. You are doing short esters so week #9 you are still fully suppressed, but starting the PCT drugs will kick start your testes, and then in weeks 10 to 13 all the test and tren is gone so you'll be PCT'ing in the most effective way. As the guys above mentioned you could also take week 9 off (keep taking AI, caber, and HCG) and PCT weeks 10 to 14.

A lot of the time you'll see people use 100 or 150 clomid the first week when they are still suppressed with long esters, those type doses are where vision issues might creep up. The poison is in the dosage.

And for HCG, you should run it right up to start of PCT - in your plan to end of week #8. If you are going to back end load it like you listed do that in the last few days of week 8.

 

[3J]

its a little known fact that nolva reduces igf production.. i'd rather go clomid than nolva any day.. but i also see the benefits in running both

 

[10243406]

My experience was that when I pinned EOD I would still get insane night sweats and night terrors by week 4 and 5, as soon as I pinned ED most of this went away except for the massive sweating, heavy breathing and muscle pumps while walking. I took Cardarine after and that took away the heavy breathing so I recommend stacking cardarine when taking Tren.

 

[GymRatRoider]

They work synergistically together, the two together are better than either one alone. If you had to choose only one I'd pick clomid.

You won't have vision problems at 50 mg. You are doing short esters so week #9 you are still fully suppressed, but starting the PCT drugs will kick start your testes, and then in weeks 10 to 13 all the test and tren is gone so you'll be PCT'ing in the most effective way. As the guys above mentioned you could also take week 9 off (keep taking AI, caber, and HCG) and PCT weeks 10 to 14.

A lot of the time you'll see people use 100 or 150 clomid the first week when they are still suppressed with long esters, those type doses are where vision issues might creep up. The poison is in the dosage.

And for HCG, you should run it right up to start of PCT - in your plan to end of week #8. If you are going to back end load it like you listed do that in the last few days of week 8.

Interesting, I did a little more research and found a great post about running both of them at the following URL: ********/showthread.php/2078-nolva-vs-clomid-or-both-for-pct I say great because the poster quotes a medical doctor with experience treating steroid induced shutdown. Here's the summary in case anyone wants to skip the read:

Clomiphene is an antiestrogen, which decreases the estrogen effect in the body. It has a dual effect by stimulating the hypothalamic pituitary area and it has an antiestrogenic effect, so that it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body. Tamoxifen is more of a strict antiestrogen, it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body, and potentiates the action of clomiphene. Tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate compete with estrogen for estrogen receptor bind*ing sites, thus eliminating excess estrogen circulation at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary, allowing gonadotropin production to resume. Administering them together produces an elevation of LH and secondar*ily gonadal sex hormones.

It looks like I'll be running both!

 

[GymRatRoider]

My experience was that when I pinned EOD I would still get insane night sweats and night terrors by week 4 and 5, as soon as I pinned ED most of this went away except for the massive sweating, heavy breathing and muscle pumps while walking. I took Cardarine after and that took away the heavy breathing so I recommend stacking cardarine when taking Tren.

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah pinning ED is going to suck no doubt but I'm hoping it will keep the sides mild. Hopefully your experience with that will be mine as well!

 

[scorob777]

Tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate compete with estrogen for estrogen receptor binding sites, thus eliminating excess estrogen circulation at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary, allowing gonadotropin production to resume. Administering them together produces an elevation of LH and secondary gonadal sex hormones.

I think this is a bit misleading, unless you read it in one narrow interpretation. Clomid and nolva don't do anything to reduce circulating estrogen (in the body in general), they bind receptor sites in the hypothalamus and trick the body into thinking it is in a deficit - so the body tries to produce more by producing estrogen's precursor testosterone. This quote could be interpreted to say they reduce circulating estrogen, which they do not - unless you take the meaning as only locally in the hypothalamus.

Anyway, you get the point - they work better together, so you increase the chance of successful PCT if you take both together.

 

[scorob777]

PCT:
WK 9-13: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/10
WK 9 on Supplements: Testojack 200, D-Aspartic Acid, DHEA, Indole 3 Carbinol, Resveratrol, ZMA

And some more unsolicited opinions - since you are trying to restore natural test production I would avoid the Testojack 200 and Indole 3 Carbinol. Let your body go back to a normal state, these boosters might end up working against you.

And for D-aspartic acid - I don't know if I believe this or not, you can do your own research. Folks say this is an excitogen that frys your brain over time, very much the same way mono sodium glutamate does. You can look at the molecular structure and see that it is the same as half of MSG, so the reasoning is sound that if MSG is bad for you, then so is DAA. DAA is ridiculously cheap in bulk powder and I used to take it, but dropped it based on things I have read. DHEA is fine, some would say even great for older folks like us. ZMA is excellent. You should also throw in fish oil and vitamin D3 with vitamin K2.

 

[10243406]

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah pinning ED is going to suck no doubt but I'm hoping it will keep the sides mild. Hopefully your experience with that will be mine as well!

As long as you take your time and you wipe the area clean with alcohol before pinning and dispose of the syringe correctly it becomes as ordinary as brushing your teeth.

 

[GymRatRoider]

And some more unsolicited opinions - since you are trying to restore natural test production I would avoid the Testojack 200 and Indole 3 Carbinol. Let your body go back to a normal state, these boosters might end up working against you.

And for D-aspartic acid - I don't know if I believe this or not, you can do your own research. Folks say this is an excitogen that frys your brain over time, very much the same way mono sodium glutamate does. You can look at the molecular structure and see that it is the same as half of MSG, so the reasoning is sound that if MSG is bad for you, then so is DAA. DAA is ridiculously cheap in bulk powder and I used to take it, but dropped it based on things I have read. DHEA is fine, some would say even great for older folks like us. ZMA is excellent. You should also throw in fish oil and vitamin D3 with vitamin K2.

That sounds like some good advice. My thinking on the boosters was that they might help with the HPTA kick start process during PCT but you're probably right that it's better to let things return to normal first. I can always add the boosters back in later if my levels don't return to where I'd like them.

As far as the D-aspartic acid (DAA) goes, that's very interesting information, I'm going to have to look into that a little more. I will say that I know from personal experience that DAA definitely works (i.e. it boosts your T levels). That being said, I can also confirm that it is very cycle dependent (so the general advice to do 2-3 weeks ***8220;on***8221; period followed by 1-2 weeks ***8220;off***8221; is right on) which is a little too variable for my liking. I'll probably use this AAS cycle as a way to wean myself off of using DAA.

Thanks again for the great advice!

 

[casanovaaa]

That sounds like some good advice. My thinking on the boosters was that they might help with the HPTA kick start process during PCT but you're probably right that it's better to let things return to normal first. I can always add the boosters back in later if my levels don't return to where I'd like them.

As far as the D-aspartic acid (DAA) goes, that's very interesting information, I'm going to have to look into that a little more. I will say that I know from personal experience that DAA definitely works (i.e. it boosts your T levels). That being said, I can also confirm that it is very cycle dependent (so the general advice to do 2-3 weeks ***8220;on***8221; period followed by 1-2 weeks ***8220;off***8221; is right on) which is a little too variable for my liking. I'll probably use this AAS cycle as a way to wean myself off of using DAA.

Thanks again for the great advice!

Whats your background in this bro? whats your complete cycle history?

 

[casanovaaa]

Whens this cycle kicking off? have you done bloods yet?

 

[ryox82]

its a little known fact that nolva reduces igf production.. i'd rather go clomid than nolva any day.. but i also see the benefits in running both

Attempting to use clomid as a monotherapy I ran half a pill eod because it also causes estrogen to rise and it still caused me estro problems because my T didn't rise in tandem. Moved to IM test, but that's another story. My question was in light of what I thought was common knowledge regarding clomid in the TRT communities I am a part of, does it really still make sense to dose it that high and frequently when used as PCT?

 

[GymRatRoider]

I just thought that I'd post a quick follow up. I had a very successful cycle (around 12 weeks) with some great results in body comp and strength. Sides were pretty minimal with some night sweats, occasional Tren cough and a little bit of Tren dick the last couple of weeks. I'm just finishing up my PCT now and things seem to be pretty much back to normal but I will probably follow up with some blood work in a couple of weeks just to be sure. Overall I would say for anyone thinking about Tren that you should give it a try---you won't be disappointed! And it's not nearly as "scary" as it is sometimes made to seem assuming you do your homework and go at it modestly as I did.

For the record I started with about 200mg Tren A and 100mg Test P the first week, did 300/150 for around 6 weeks, and bumped it up to around 450/225 for a week or two at the end just to test my tolerance levels. The only real change I saw at the end was some Tren dick which I'm not sure is due to the increased dosage around that time or just the length of the cycle. I tried some Cabaser with no real effect so I upped the Test to more like 450mg and that seemed to help and I added Arimidex as well to be safe. PCT was Clomid 50/50/50/50 and Nolva 20/20/10/10.