Same with the body builder example in post 17
HCG Diet... is this stuff real HCG?
- Thread starter copaseet
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Same with the body builder example in post 17
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
You are totally wrong my friend. Calories in calories out is pretty much everything. Hormones might dictate how many "calories in and calories out" but in the end, that is what matters. For example, someone who is hypothyroid(hormone problem) They have a weaker metabolism than someone who doesnt. All this means is that their basal metabolic rate is much lower, depending on the severity of their condition. It's not 100% calories, but it's pretty damn close. I would talk about macros, but i need you to understand diet and nutrition 101 first, with a bit of endocrinology.
You sound like a paleo type/low carb/no carb dieter type. I've been there and i've done that. Metabolic syndrome seems like a topic too complicated for someone with your knowledge and understanding to tackle. I don't mind sitting here teaching you basic thermodynamics, nutrition, and endocrinology if you want to keep an open mind and want to learn. If you don't, i could careless. You can have your wrong opinion if you want, and keep spouting the same non-sense. You're just gonna come off as fool, and you are entirely welcome to.
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This^^^ and macros is what determines where the weight comes from in a deficit or goes to in a surplus
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
Edited the above post and added some extra goodies. Exactly what dre said. It really is THAT simple(for the most part).
Mprtz
New member
Let's substitute "normal range" for "normal physiological range". Since I believe it is possible to bring about diabetis through diet, with the attendant abnormal hormonal profile, I would say that - yes - is possible.
I think I already denied it (though I understand you disagree). I also challenge you to prove that you can make someone just as fat eating just chicken as eating the same caloric intake of just oats. I say that the results will be very different.
I won't deny that you have popular sentiment on your side. The assumption is that if someone is fat they must be overeating. No doubt there are many people for whom this is true, but I believe that as metabolic syndrome is better understood this sentiment will change.
Mprtz is a good guy. We have had this discussion before and I believe him to be getting his info from an erroneous source. Sorry Mprtz but Lustig is a quack plain and simple. His conclusions are not supported by the evidence and I advised you then like I do now not to pay attention to him. He's a very smart man but has an agenda and isn't a credible source of unbiased informatuon
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
It IS harder to gain weight on a higher protein intake, but do you even know why? Protein itself has a thermodynamic effect. Your body needs extra energy just to break the protein down to absorb it. This is a very negligible effect, equating a couple less calories per gram. Not to mention the stronger satiating effect of protein. Just means its harder to stuff your face full of chicken without feeling like you are going to explode and that the chicken will have a slightly lower caloric value in terms of absorption and storage. This does not mean you can't get fat on chicken, it's just more difficult. I mean how many barrels of lettuce does it take to hit 3000 calories? This is why clean eating is beneficial to dieting and makes it easier to hit macro nutrient goals why increase micro nutrient intake. "clean" eating might be optimal for bodybuilding purposes, but it is not the only way. Calories in, calories out, obviously harder with a "dirty" diet, but not impossible.
I wonder why you feel so strongly about it mprtz. I don't want to think you're trolling, and you are entitled to your opinion. Your approach just seems dogmatic in nature. So i dont know if you are trolling or have a more intimate reason to stubbornly defend your mantra.
Many quacks out there, and even more sheep to herd. Like i said, i've been there. So i know where he is coming from. He won't listen to reason or logic if he doesn't want to, and i'm fine with that. I just like writing
I wonder why you feel so strongly about it mprtz. I don't want to think you're trolling, and you are entitled to your opinion. Your approach just seems dogmatic in nature. So i dont know if you are trolling or have a more intimate reason to stubbornly defend your mantra.
Many quacks out there, and even more sheep to herd. Like i said, i've been there. So i know where he is coming from. He won't listen to reason or logic if he doesn't want to, and i'm fine with that. I just like writing
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Mprtz
New member
I understand your position and I appreciate your ability to have a civil disagreement without resorting to condescension.
I know you think Taubes is a quack, but from what I understand you have not actually read his book.
If you own a kindle book reader, I will make you this offer: I will PM you an amazon gift code with which you can anonymously download a copy of "Good calories, bad calories". Perhaps you will find something of value in it after all.
What does diabetes have to do with fat loss in this context? Unfortunately it's not. Here same sample of insulin and the effects of spiking it while remaining in physiological ranges.
The results will vary, I said macros are important to fat/muscle loss/gain. You can't get the same macros from those two sources in isolation. That's an appeal to an extreme and a fallacy. Enough said.
This isn't about a popularity contest. I understand where you're coming from with your history (I've read your posts). This isn't a case of you against the world here. I understand your previous condition from what you've put on here and while it is true for most cases (the obese overeat) there are situations where medical conditions can exacerbate this. The fact remains you cannot positively or negatively affect your hormones enough to significantly alter body composition in any meaningful way through diet alone. You simply cannot no matter how many times you try and state you can.
Black Beard
@ X450 Gravity
I resort to condescension frequently but it's with others. You've kept it civil with me and i will continue to do the same with you. I also enjoy your TRT posts and our only disagreement lies in the nutritional aspect.
I'll take you up in your offer but over already read some of his arguments/research/references. Many of them are misapplied or flat out wrong. If you PM me the offer though I will attempt to keep as open a mind as possible. Also I mixed up Lustig and Taubes. My mistake lol
as to you chicken and oats example, it's not a valid one. Who eats oats to the exclusion of all other sources or chicken to the exlcusion of others. You cannot get your macros in with oats alone or chicken alone. It's an appeal to an extreme IMO.
The primary fate of dietary fats is storage since their intake has little to do with their oxidation. The primary role of carbs is the conversion to glucose to be used as a fuel source. The primary fate of protein is to be stored intramuscularly. If you eat only chicken, what will happen is gluconeogenesis or protein gets converted to glucose to fuel the brain and liver while the remaining protein will be stored. If you eat oats alone you will more than likely die after sufficient time due to lack of efa's and EAA. It's an absurd example. I also specifically said that calories is what determines weight loss or gain but K
MACROS determine whether the weight loss is fat or muscle and wether the weight gain is fat or muscle. Hormones will let you get by with slightly less or more of a certain macro/s or allow you to eat ina. Greater deficit/surplus depending on goals but cals and macros in and out is the predominant factor in all of this
The primary fate of dietary fats is storage since their intake has little to do with their oxidation. The primary role of carbs is the conversion to glucose to be used as a fuel source. The primary fate of protein is to be stored intramuscularly. If you eat only chicken, what will happen is gluconeogenesis or protein gets converted to glucose to fuel the brain and liver while the remaining protein will be stored. If you eat oats alone you will more than likely die after sufficient time due to lack of efa's and EAA. It's an absurd example. I also specifically said that calories is what determines weight loss or gain but K
MACROS determine whether the weight loss is fat or muscle and wether the weight gain is fat or muscle. Hormones will let you get by with slightly less or more of a certain macro/s or allow you to eat ina. Greater deficit/surplus depending on goals but cals and macros in and out is the predominant factor in all of this
Mprtz
New member
PM with gift code sent. I'm going to assume that you're not the one who negative repped me over this discussion
Clearly, I've entered the realm of heresy and I know what happens to heretics. I guess I'm feeling the heat and I am resolved not to broach the subject again.
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PM with gift code sent. I'm going to assume that you're not the one who negative repped me over this discussion
Clearly, I've entered the realm of heresy and I know what happens to heretics. I guess I'm feeling the heat and I am resolved not to broach the subject again.
I have only negative repped one person in my time on this forum and that was months ago and I always leave my name whether positive or negative rep lol. Like I said, I usually love reading your posts and agree with you 99% of the time. Nutrition is where our paths diverge
Testosterone diet is best.
Look at you sneaking into this with a testosterone diet lmao. I'm going or eat all the testosterone I can get my hands on...I already foresee the jokes and no this will not end well for me haha
Austinite
New member
lol. I am staying far away from this debate and the creatine thread as well
My blood pressure needs to remain stable for at least another day.lol. I am staying far away from this debate and the creatine thread as well
Just donated blood on Saturday...they said my BP was great but my heart rate was slightly elevated from a workout so I waited 10min or so then was g2g. I see you staying away from the creatine one lol
Austinite
New member
Good work donating. It's almost that time for me as well. I'll be donating my blood to the toilet.
Lucky toilet to get such testosterone filled blood. You should sell it like they do V on True Blood hahaha.
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