hcg question, with cycle/pre pct

[bignewf]

hey guys,

I was watching one of rich piana's videos today and he made a statement that caught my attention. he said that he never takes Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while taking test. reason being if that when on test your body's production is shut down due to the synthetic test, so why would you want your body to make it when you causing it to shut down. pretty much said your sending your body mixed signals one minute shutting down the next starting up. he said he just takes a lot of it after his cycle..

is this valid? because I was going to run 500 iu a week for my next cycle , test/deca. im not running it now on my test only cycle, and was also wondering about if I should run it after my test/deca cycle, as I will be crusing until I cut pre contest

any opinions or info would be appreciated thanks guys

 

[KingPen]

This is not valid, rich piana doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[DreDay187]

hey guys,

I was watching one of rich piana's videos today and he made a statement that caught my attention. he said that he never takes Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while taking test. reason being if that when on test your body's production is shut down due to the synthetic test, so why would you want your body to make it when you causing it to shut down. pretty much said your sending your body mixed signals one minute shutting down the next starting up. he said he just takes a lot of it after his cycle..

is this valid? because I was going to run 500 iu a week for my next cycle , test/deca. im not running it now on my test only cycle, and was also wondering about if I should run it after my test/deca cycle, as I will be crusing until I cut pre contest

any opinions or info would be appreciated thanks guys

Short answer is no that's not valid. His line of reasoning shows he really doesn't know what he's doing besides injecting gear. There's a long and detailed answer available if need be but suffice it to say that is an idiotic and unfounded statement.

Run your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle at 250iu 2x/wk.

Edit* KingPen beat me to it

 

[Optimal]

Sorry to piggy back but how about Clomid as an additional booster? (same question/premise)

I would imagine it would be the same reasoning as your guys' answer to the hcg? Or does it work a bit differently?

 

[KingPen]

Sorry to piggy back but how about Clomid as an additional booster? (same question/premise)

I would imagine it would be the same reasoning as your guys' answer to the hcg? Or does it work a bit differently?

clomid as an additional booster for what...?

 

[DreDay187]

Sorry to piggy back but how about Clomid as an additional booster? (same question/premise)

I would imagine it would be the same reasoning as your guys' answer to the hcg? Or does it work a bit differently?

They each work through different mechanisms. Rich Piana's statements regarding Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be better suited towards clomid. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is the best choice here. I wouldn't consider clomid a valid option or substitute to HCG. The following is a quote from Halfwit, I'd ALWAYS give his opinions serious thought.

Clomid works by tricking the body into thinking it has low estrogen. This is why it is used in PCT as it increases the body's natural LH signal from the pituitary gland, causing the testes to turn back on. Injecting exogenous testosterone sends another signal through the negative feedback loop that tells the pituitary gland to STOP all LH/FSH production so the testes turn off. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) *MIMICS* this signal, but does not actually provide any LH, which is why it works. It's basically cheating nature at its finest.

Could taking clomid during a cycle do anything for you aside from giving you the sides? Dunno, but the science behind it doesn't bode well for this method. But then again, I'm all about that hearsay. ;

 

[bignewf]

great guys thanks, just wanted to make sure.. I figured it sounded weird as from what ive read for the most part has been to do it during cycle.. also what about cruise? do you continue your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose throughout?

 

[DreDay187]

great guys thanks, just wanted to make sure.. I figured it sounded weird as from what ive read for the most part has been to do it during cycle.. also what about cruise? do you continue your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose throughout?

Yes testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients get prescribed Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as well brother. And good call on reaffirming what you thought and not listening to that dope.

 

[bignewf]

thanks man..do they still run at 500iu/wk... I though long high doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) had some bad sides? yea some of the stuff he says makes me wonder sometimes, but he is entertaining none the less....and freaking huge

 

[DreDay187]

thanks man..do they still run at 500iu/wk... I though long high doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) had some bad sides? yea some of the stuff he says makes me wonder sometimes, but he is entertaining none the less....and freaking huge

I've seen his name brought up here but really have no idea who he is. Mus look him up later. Sure it may be entertaining but just keep that inquisitive mentality. Always question why bc even authority figures can be wrong, case in point with this apparent bodybuilder not understanding the mechanism of action of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and making baseless comments.

 

[bignewf]

yea and it seems it happens all the time with "well known" bodybuilders... the look like they know more then they actually due... a lot of people will assume because a guy is huge he knows all

 

[DreDay187]

yea and it seems it happens all the time with "well known" bodybuilders... the look like they know more then they actually due... a lot of people will assume because a guy is huge he knows all

It's all appeals to authority, which is still a logical fallacy last I checked. Why does Ronnie Coleman listen to his trainer, who is SMALLER than him, if size was indicative of knowledge in this game? Some of the best coaches and smartest trainers don't have the results for themselves to prove it but that's due to many reasons, not bc they don't know. I agree with you 100% and find it disheartening more people aren't inclined to question things.

 

[bignewf]

that's a very good point and like you said a lot of people don't realize it...

about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during trt/cruise... do people still run it at 500iu a week and can extended Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use like that have negative effects? or is that at higher doses??

 

[DreDay187]

that's a very good point and like you said a lot of people don't realize it...

about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during trt/cruise... do people still run it at 500iu a week and can extended Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use like that have negative effects? or is that at higher doses??

I say the blind leading the blind lol.

It depends on the individual. I've seen less and I've seen slightly more. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has been run for over a year in clinical trials and therapeutic use and the Ledyig cell desensitization thing is dependent on the amount of the dose (think super high doses) and the duration of use. As a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patient I don't know that your be particularly concerned with that since your testes are failing to produce enough natural test anyway but I'd let someone else chime in. It's also possible to drop it for a period before using it again if there's serious concern over desensitization.

 

[bignewf]

not a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patient... just looking to cruise from bulk to cut for show purposes.. but thanks for the info

 

[Optimal]

clomid as an additional booster for what...?

Meaning getting your body to fight the shutdown somewhat, adding your own production to that which is being brought in endogenously.
My first instinct would be that the classic "shutdown is shutdown" would apply, yet the restoration of the testes might imply otherwise.

They each work through different mechanisms. Rich Piana's statements regarding Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be better suited towards clomid. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is the best choice here. I wouldn't consider clomid a valid option or substitute to HCG. The following is a quote from Halfwit, I'd ALWAYS give his opinions serious thought.

Quote Originally Posted by halfwit View Post
clomid works by tricking the body into thinking it has low estrogen. This is why it is used in PCT as it increases the body's natural LH signal from the pituitary gland, causing the testes to turn back on. Injecting exogenous testosterone sends another signal through the negative feedback loop that tells the pituitary gland to STOP all LH/FSH production so the testes turn off. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) *MIMICS* this signal, but does not actually provide any LH, which is why it works. It's basically cheating nature at its finest.

Could taking clomid during a cycle do anything for you aside from giving you the sides? Dunno, but the science behind it doesn't bode well for this method. But then again, I'm all about that hearsay. ;

That actually makes perfect sense, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

This actually raises another possibility: if Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics that signal, and clomid cranks up the production... it would seem to follow that the two in conjunction might actually have a positive benefit throughout an entire cycle?
Of course, what seems logical & what ends up happening in the real world are not necessarily the same thing...

 

[DreDay187]

Meaning getting your body to fight the shutdown somewhat, adding your own production to that which is being brought in endogenously.
My first instinct would be that the classic "shutdown is shutdown" would apply, yet the restoration of the testes might imply otherwise.




That actually makes perfect sense, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

This actually raises another possibility: if Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics that signal, and clomid cranks up the production... it would seem to follow that the two in conjunction might actually have a positive benefit throughout an entire cycle?
Of course, what seems logical & what ends up happening in the real world are not necessarily the same thing...

I hope Austinite or Halfwit join in but my thoughts are this: clomid acts antagonistically to the shutdown of the HPTA system through the negative feedback loop. Piana's argument if sending contradictory signals would apply to clomid and may possibly have an adverse effect whereas Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) bypasses the pituitary and HPTA and sends a "counterfeit" LH signal to the testes. Clomid would interrupt shutdown but then the body senses exogenous test and shuts down production. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) doesn't act on the shutdown itself, in fact it keeps you suppressed, but it is enough to stave off testicular atrophy and this aid in recovery. I could very well be wrong about clomid but that's my line of reasoning.

 

[Optimal]

I hope Austinite or Halfwit join in but my thoughts are this: clomid acts antagonistically to the shutdown of the HPTA system through the negative feedback loop. Piana's argument if sending contradictory signals would apply to clomid and may possibly have an adverse effect whereas Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) bypasses the pituitary and HPTA and sends a "counterfeit" LH signal to the testes. Clomid would interrupt shutdown but then the body senses exogenous test and shuts down production. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) doesn't act on the shutdown itself, in fact it keeps you suppressed, but it is enough to stave off testicular atrophy and this aid in recovery. I could very well be wrong about clomid but that's my line of reasoning.

Yeah, I just clued in now through this+another thread that the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) isn't actually turning anything back on, just mimicing it, so adding clomid would still be 0LH*anything=0LH.