Help fix my limp noodle from too much e2 on test e cycle

[wiggywild]

Stats 5'11 195 pounds 16% bf? See current pic

Previous cycles test e and aromasin 14 weeks worked

Test p turanibol and aromasin quit early due to e sides.

Current Cycle info:
Started with 600 mg test e every week
600 mg masterone
25 mg aromasin

Everything started out fine. Then I started getting pretty tired in the morning. Got standard blood work done estrogen was through the roof see attached blood work.

Decided the aromasin wasn't working ordered arimidex from our former lion board sponsor. Ran at 1mg per day. Seemed to take fatigue away. At some point during the arimidex I lost my ability to get wood. It just gradually went away. No boner whatsoever now. Bumped the arimidex to 1.5 mg per day thinking it was underdosed. Boner did not change. Ran through arimidex and transitioned through .75mg arimidex 25 mg new aromasin from a different rc store to 50mg a week.

Painful nips started. I do not feel tired and based on the picture I do not feel bloated. But I don't think I crashed my e because of the itchy nips. Also for the first time last night I took s Nolvadex and the itchy nips went away today.

I also dropped the masteron when the limp noodle arose thinking it may be a 19 nor mistakenly switched at the lab. I'm getting blood drawn tomorrow.

Should I quit the cycle completely or start letrozole or something ? My next pin was supposed to be yesterday but I'm not sure if I want to continue.

 

[oldmusclemike]

First you have not given us complete stats. One thing I wanna know is how old are you? But at this point I guess no matter.

WE also need more history as well as cycle protocols.
Now you are all over the pace with your remedies what you have is a big cluster fuck...sorry not to be rude but slow down. YOU seem not to be educated enough with all the sides of High and Low E2. They are similar so it is important that you know well what they are as you evaluate your BW.

AT this point IMOP I would STOP and get into PCT... take time off and do some better planning. Then clear your plan on board to begin again.
Listen OP as long as you eat and train right you can and will still gain as you straighten this out.

As most will tell you , all this stuff is a marathon and not a sprint. A learning lessen only to do it right and better next go. Get into your diet and training as you take your break. I promise you if you do right you will have a much better and much more efficient cycle with better gains being you get it right.

Slow down and you will get it right and be much more satisfied. Re-group not re-comp

 

[scorob777]

When you were doing the 600 test e and 25 mg aromasin per week, what was your dosing frequency for each of these? Aromasin has a short half life, so best if you can dose it EOD.

I know aromasin tends to come in 12.5mg or 10mg capsules, so getting an exact dose might be difficult - but I calculate you would need 16mg EOD at 600 test E, total of 56 mg/wk. So it is possible you were not taking enough, or not frequently enough, and that alone was your problem.

For adex I calculate 0.32mg EOD or 0.6 mg E3.5D, total 1.13 mg/wk. When you switched to 1mg/day adex it is a certainty that you crashed your E2. There have been other guys that ended up with long term weird problems from taking too much adex, so I'd really recommend you don't do that.

 

[Megatron28]

Sounds like you took too much and crashed your E2.

You can usually get hard with high E2 but go soft during sex. With low E2 you usually can't get hard at all. That's based on anecdotal experience.

 

[wiggywild]

My dick will eventually work either way though right ?

 

[Nicky_eye_lids]

My dick will eventually work either way though right ?

with proper trt treatment you should get it working again.

 

[wiggywild]

I got my estrogen tested by eclia it's 27.5 reference is 7.6 - 42.6. I guess it's time for a sensitive assay??

 

[oldmusclemike]

I got my estrogen tested by eclia it's 27.5 reference is 7.6 - 42.6. I guess it's time for a sensitive assay??

Ya know I don't know why people just don't get a sensitive assay. That's what I always do. Sometimes a few bucks more

But then I know I am G2G with the lab report. No guessing, no figuring. I mean IMOP that's what it's for. A more accurate #. That's my understanding anyway.

 

[Entourage_Doc]

Always sensitive assay


Dr b

 

[scorob777]

So I'm wondering if you saw my post above. At 600 mg/wk test if you had just doubled up your 25 mg/wk aromasin to 50 mg/wk you would probably be fine.

Are you still taking all that adex?

 

[tbonexl]

So I'm wondering if you saw my post above. At 600 mg/wk test if you had just doubled up your 25 mg/wk aromasin to 50 mg/wk you would probably be fine.

Are you still taking all that adex?

Where are you getting these calculations from? Ai doses and all that are person specific and can't just be punched in to some app. Every one is different. Yes, there are guide lines to go by but no crazy algorithms bud...

To get back to what you're saying about 25mgs of aromasin PER WEEK and doubling the dose sounds odd. Aromasin should be taken DAILY and 25mgs PER DAY isn't far fetched of a dose...

 

[scorob777]

Where are you getting these calculations from? Ai doses and all that are person specific and can't just be punched in to some app. Every one is different. Yes, there are guide lines to go by but no crazy algorithms bud...

To get back to what you're saying about 25mgs of aromasin PER WEEK and doubling the dose sounds odd. Aromasin should be taken DAILY and 25mgs PER DAY isn't far fetched of a dose...

Hey Tbone, so here's the deal. We all know AI dose is individual, and those of us who pay any attention at all have an idea of how to do a basic test cycle and get your AI dose dialed in for you personally. So that's always the best way.

We see people on this site on a regular basis who either don't take any AI at all, or maybe start taking it when things spiral out of control, and often we see people over react and go from not taking any to taking way too much. So what to tell people like that? Should we attempt to help, or let them flounder and suffer?

I took what I thought was a reasonable approach to try to get a baseline dosage, for the intent of helping me to get dialed in. And also to get some insight into AI dose if I start adding things like boldenone or deca that aromatize at a different rate. I assumed 70 mg/wk is baseline for what we produce naturally, sure this can go up or down per person, but it's a starting point. Then I assumed zero AI is required at that dose. Depending on what ester you attach to your test you get different amounts of actual test, like 69.9% for test cyp, 71% for enanthate, 83% for prop, etc.

So given all that background, if somebody is taking 600 mg/wk of test E, that equates to 432 mg/wk actual test. Subtract 70 mg/wk baseline, and that equals 362 mg/wk exogenous test. Now another assumption - that a basic 500 mg/wk test cyp cycle should use 12.5 mg aromasin EOD (another assumption that needs to be calibrated). From that, using the same set of assumptions, you can get a mg aromasin per exogenous mg test figure - and use that figure to multiply by this dude's 362 mg/wk exogenous test to get mg/wk aromasin.

I know this is a pile of assumptions, and should be calibrated for each person individually by blood testing, but it gives a ballpark starting point. In this guy's case 56 mg/wk aromasin. Break it down to ED or EOD dosing, and Bob's your uncle.

Make sense? Nothing more that a crude attempt to convert some bro science into something a bit more predictive. Can be handy if you are taking a mix of test, deca, and boldenone and have no idea where to start on AI. That was my situation so rather that guess I tried to use my brain, and it came out pretty damn close for me after a few rounds of blood testing to dial in.

 

[tbonexl]

Well, we're getting off subject a bit, but if I'm reading that wrong you are including 70mg of test as natural production with exogenous test? Everything shuts you down so your natural levels can't be added to whatever your "stacking" with it.

We do have a beginner cycle sticky that gives a guide line on things. There are so many different variables tho. Body fat being a big one an all the way down to ethnicity. Basically blood work is recommended to dial in everything.

That's good that you came up with an eqation of sorts for yourself. I basically have on for myself too. Unfortunately in most cases they do not transfer over as easily...

 

[scorob777]

What I'm saying about the 70 mg/wk natural production is you don't need any AI for that amount, whether produced by your body or injected. I back that out in both the baseline calc of 0.25 mg EOD for 500 test cyp, and also for whatever is being injected - so the mg aromasin / mg test is purely based on excess to natural levels.

Bloodwork is the only real answer, but it too depends on several things like are you doing it? Are you at steady state yet on the ester?

This thing we are discussing is most useful for a first go when there is no bloodwork to base off of, a new cycle with new doses & chemicals, or cases where someone is jumping in late and would prefer some logic vs. tossing random drugs & doses blindly.

To each their own. I'm in favor of taking some AI, and erring on the side of too little at first because crashing E2 is even worse than too much.

 

[Megatron28]

What I'm saying about the 70 mg/wk natural production is you don't need any AI for that amount, whether produced by your body or injected. I back that out in both the baseline calc of 0.25 mg EOD for 500 test cyp, and also for whatever is being injected - so the mg aromasin / mg test is purely based on excess to natural levels.

Bloodwork is the only real answer, but it too depends on several things like are you doing it? Are you at steady state yet on the ester?

This thing we are discussing is most useful for a first go when there is no bloodwork to base off of, a new cycle with new doses & chemicals, or cases where someone is jumping in late and would prefer some logic vs. tossing random drugs & doses blindly.

To each their own. I'm in favor of taking some AI, and erring on the side of too little at first because crashing E2 is even worse than too much.

I wouldn't automatically assume you can "discount" the 70mg of test per week. The HPTA behaves differently when it is fully functioning. It is self-regulating as it seeks homeostasis. That doesn't exist when taking exogenous test and the HPTA is shut down.

 

[scorob777]

Hey Megatron, thanks for commenting. We may have veered way off topic, but I think this is important.

Ran the calcs without the 70mg natural test assumption, and it doesn't make a hill of beans difference.

(500 mg/wk test cyp * 0.699)/(3.5 * 12.5 mg/aromasin) * (600 mg/wk test E * 0.72) = 54.1 mg/wk

Compared to ((500*0.699)-70)/(3.5*12.5)*((600*0.72)-70)= 56.7 mg/wk

That's probably one assumption that can be tossed out, because it just doesn't matter.

More importantly, the OP switched to 1mg adex per day when 1 mg/wk would have been more appropriate - and crashed E2. I want to know what he did about it.

 

[wiggywild]

Turns out my estrogen was never low at least when I tested it. The day after the immunoassay the sensitive lcms results came back at 54 on 8-35 scale. Granted it took a week to get those results so I'm on 12.5 mg aromasin per day. Now I notice I still can't get hard watching porn, but I can with a girl I just can't cum and sometimes I lose my boner. My e2 was 20.5 by immunoassay before I ever touched a steroid 4 years ago and to was around 500. Hoping that as my e2 levels normalize the penis will start working ??

 

[Megatron28]

Check your prolactin. What you are describing could be a high prolactin issue.