Help with aromasin dosing

[Natehayes]

I was hoping to get some help from all the knowledgeable guys here.

I have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a while now (200mg a week), but my doc does not go in for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) control unfortunately which has left me to do it myself. I would love to have the cash for signing up with Chip, but money is so tight right now moths fly out of my wallet when I open it.

I have been experimenting with aromasin dosing to try and find my sweet spot. Again, I would love to just be able to do blood tests and I know that is the only way to be 100% certain, but between having no money and living in NY where I can't do the cheap blood test thing I'm kind of screwed.

I thought I had it pretty well nailed down at 12mg a day, but now I'm not so sure. I have been running this dose for over a month. Libido is good, joints are not achey or anything but I am sooooooo tired. All I want to do is sleep. I know this can be due to high estro, but I think low estro can do the same so I am not sure if I should increase or decrease my aromasin dosage.

I did add in hcg recently (500iu twice a week) so I am thinking my estro is probably too high.

I'm hoping for some input before I decide whether to go up or down with the aromasin. My feeling is to go up to 24mg a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens, but I am open to suggestions.

 

[corvettels3]

You can order your test online for about 50.00.. I had my e2 checked a few weeks ago and it was pretty simply.

 

[Natehayes]

You can order your test online for about 50.00.. I had my e2 checked a few weeks ago and it was pretty simply.

That would be great! Where did you do that?

All of the online places I have seen are not able to do tests without Dr's orders in New York state.

All of the sites say this:

NOTE: New York State Residents
New York State health law prohibits the testing of specimens collected in or mailed from New York, and prohibits the transmission of data from our laboratory to NY physicians or residents. Therefore, direct receipt of lab results for NY residents is not possible.

 

[corvettels3]

That would be great! Where did you do that?

All of the online places I have seen are not able to do tests without Dr's orders in New York state.

All of the sites say this:

NOTE: New York State Residents
New York State health law prohibits the testing of specimens collected in or mailed from New York, and prohibits the transmission of data from our laboratory to NY physicians or residents. Therefore, direct receipt of lab results for NY residents is not possible.

Well thats sucks. I did not know you are in NY. I guess it's out of the question. Good luck brother..

 

[Frustrated1]

12mg a day of what? Sucks how the screw w/your health like that in NY.

 

[Natehayes]

12mg a day of what? Sucks how the screw w/your health like that in NY.

Sorry I was not clearer, I put it in the title but forget to include include that info in my post.

12mg of aromasin.

Yeah, NY and California passing laws to make you safe from ordering your own blood tests.

 

[Frustrated1]

I have no idea why your tired. Seems like it should be right, but without blood, you'll never know where your at. But being in NY, maybe your blood test is lethal. LOL

 

[TerpVTX]

HCG can lead to an increase in E2. You may want to drop it down to 250 IUs twice a week. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is probably having more of an impact on your estrogen levels than the 200 mg a week of test. Drop it down to 250 IUs twice a week and after a week or two consider going to 12.5 mg EOD with the Aromasin. Every body handles test, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for that matter, differently, so you may very well require 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin, but for 200 mg a week of test, that seems a little high.

 

[Natehayes]

HCG can lead to an increase in E2. You may want to drop it down to 250 IUs twice a week. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is probably having more of an impact on your estrogen levels than the 200 mg a week of test. Drop it down to 250 IUs twice a week and after a week or two consider going to 12.5 mg EOD with the Aromasin. Every body handles test, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for that matter, differently, so you may very well require 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin, but for 200 mg a week of test, that seems a little high.

Thanks for the input, bro! Too much aromasin seems to be the consensus. I'm gyno prone so a bit paranoid, but it looks like I may have gone too far.

I will also try dropping the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose to see if it helps, that makes sense.

 

[DeusMalo]

Are you feeling foggy headed too? Meaning, you aren't as clear as you should be and feeling like you are in your morning fog all day? Or, is being extremely tired, you only want to sleep the only symptom?

 

[Natehayes]

Are you feeling foggy headed too? Meaning, you aren't as clear as you should be and feeling like you are in your morning fog all day? Or, is being extremely tired, you only want to sleep the only symptom?

Definitely foggy too. I can sleep a the drop of a hat, but I do also feel like I don't quite wake all the way up.

Any thoughts?

 

[riprockwell]

Being tired can be many things so it is hard to say without the bloods. I know being hypothyroid can make a person extremely tired. Any idea what your last thyroid numbers were and how long ago??

 

[Natehayes]

Being tired can be many things so it is hard to say without the bloods. I know being hypothyroid can make a person extremely tired. Any idea what your last thyroid numbers were and how long ago??

Last numbers were taken over a year ago and they were in normal range.

The tired thing just started a few weeks ago and I'm not loving it.

 

[DeusMalo]

Definitely foggy too. I can sleep a the drop of a hat, but I do also feel like I don't quite wake all the way up.

Any thoughts?

A long reply to set some context for my reasoning.

I'll preface this with stating the obvious: always best to get your blood tests and know exactly where you stand then tune accordingly, but here is my opinion.

The "soooo tired" symptom you mention can be either too high or too low E2, but w/out anything other than tired alone my guess would be high e2... too low, say under 20, most people would have more symptoms - I would. However, add foggy head too that, I lean toward high e2. When my e2 goes too high - those are the only symptoms I notice.

Personally, I'd drop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose and bump aromasin up... for me and what I've read, aromasin is not as powerful as it would seem on paper.

I'm not sure 12.5mg eod is that much...more context:

Aromasin is an aromatase "suicide" inhibitor - a type 1 Aromatase inhibitor (AI). It fully deactivates aromatase enzyme through an unbreakable bond so your body has to produce more aromatase vs. "competitive" inhibitores like adex or letro (type 2 AIs) that create a reversible bond. However, adex and letro are more efficient even considering the reversible bond - adex ~80% (I think I've seen 70-90% depending on study) and letro is very powerful ~98% effective - aromasin 60-65%... so sometimes (prob not for HRT) a type 2 is still taken in addition to a type 1... meaning aromasin is good, but may need help in some cases.

I personally moved to aromasin because I don't aromatise much and adex was too strong for me. Plus adex has a weird half life of ~46-hours so for me harder to control - it ain't in and out that fast. Aromasin's terminal half life is 24-hours. I make a comparison to adex since I don't aromatise much and I moved to aromasin because it isn't as strong. I started on aromasin 25mg 5x/week for a few weeks and it never drove my e2 too low it got it into the right range - these doses coming from a guy who doesn't aromatize much. I crashed e2 a few times with small adex doses. Hell, folks on 100mg t cyp e5d are using adex - no way could I do that, I'd have a -50 reading. My meta point is if I could take 25mg 5x/week I suspect most people can do more prob do more.

So...

If you are typical w/aromatising and taking 200mg t cyp + 1000iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (that's a decent amount of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for most AND folks will definitely aromatize @200mg t cyp), but you are "only" taking 12.5mg ed aromasin, I bet your e2 is high. You might try bumping aromasin up slowly. Also, I agree with terpvtx, drop your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), which may take care of the issue alone so you might try that before bumping aromasin up. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is an aromatizing bitch. Keep in mind too much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in an ongoing basis can also desensitize your leydig cells - I think most on HRT are in the 250-450 iu/week range.

Why could you take 12.5mg ed for a month and just now starting feeling e2 high rather than low? Cumulative effect. The aromasin might now be counteracting the conversion enough so your e2 could climb slowly and one day be too high - similar to folks who start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) w/out an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) - in a month or two they feel more crappy than when they started.

No blood tests so take my "if it were me" with a grain of salt - just seems like a good case for high e2 when considering all factors.

 

[DeusMalo]

You might try bumping aromasin up slowly. Also, I agree with terpvtx, drop your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), which may take care of the issue alone so you might try that before bumping aromasin up. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is an aromatizing bitch.

I should add that if you're really high, dropping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) + moving aromasin up simultaneously will get you back into range much more quickly than just dropping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose. W/out numbers it's a harder call to make.

 

[Natehayes]

I should add that if you're really high, dropping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) + moving aromasin up simultaneously will get you back into range much more quickly than just dropping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose. W/out numbers it's a harder call to make.

Hmmm...interesting take on it. I appreciate your post. It seems logical and well thought out, even though so far you are the only one leaning toward high E2.

Was thinking about dropping my dose, but may tray and drop the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) first and see what happens.

 

[DeusMalo]

so far you are the only one leaning toward high E2.

that's how I roll

Since I don't seem to convert as much to estrogen as most people, I just had a helluva time getting things dialed in so a lot of work and research in this area. I drop my e2 too easily so caution on the high side because i hate crashed e2 far worse than high.

 

[TerpVTX]

Sorry, just to clarify my post from the other day. I meant to say that 12.5 mg ED of Aromasin seems a bit high for 200 mg of test a week, although as I noted in my earlier post, there is no set protocol that will apply to everyone. I would drop the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) down to 250 IUs twice a week to see if things improve.

I am on a slightly higher dose of test per week as part of my HRT protocol and I take 12.5 mg of Aromasin EOD. It has worked well for me. I too tried Arimidex and it crashed my E2. When this happened, my joints ached, I had headaches and my mood was terrible.

DeusMalo offers some great advice, and it is possible that your E2 is running high, but you just need to tweak your doses a little to get it dialed in correctly. Start by dropping the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and see if that helps. If things are not better then try adjusting the Aromasin dosage. If you adjust up and your symptoms get worse, then you are likely crashing your E2 and you will then want to adjust it down. If you adjust down and your symptoms get worse, then your E2 is likely running high and you need to increase the dose until you find the sweet spot.

 

[maxxmill17]

DeusMalo when you crashed your E did you stop aromisn for a period of time? I crashed mine again no ai's for 10 days now joints just beginning to feel better but no wood. i just dont want to start Aromatase inhibitor (AI) too soon what you think

 

[DeusMalo]

DeusMalo when you crashed your E did you stop aromisn for a period of time? I crashed mine again no ai's for 10 days now joints just beginning to feel better but no wood. i just dont want to start Aromatase inhibitor (AI) too soon what you think

Aromasin never crashed my e2, adex has. Yes, I fully stopped adex for 2-3 weeks until I got back to normal. It can take a while depending on a number of factors - for me I just don't convert much to e2 for some reason.

I'd also bump my Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) up to speed things along because I friggin hate sore knees and elbows - cant lift worth shit. Gotta be careful with this tho cuz u dont want a perpetual yoyo effect.

Note that my numbers would get back in range before I felt the symptoms go away - sounds like u are on ur way.