Hematocrit, the best way to lower: Platelet Apheresis or Plasma Apheresis?

[halfape211]

Recently I read how to lower hematocrit by one of the two methods above and why one of them was good for maintaining iron, compared to doing repeated regular blood donations which lowers iron levels. But now I cannot find it!! Any body know which is best to use and the science behind this. I will continue to search in the meantime.

 

[cbburrr]

never heard of those options^^

Are we at any risk of getting lowing iron when we still have high hemo #s? I donate every 8 weeks, and sometimes every 4 never had iron issues that I'm aware of.

 

[halfape211]

never heard of those options^^

Are we at any risk of getting lowing iron when we still have high hemo #s? I donate every 8 weeks, and sometimes every 4 never had iron issues that I'm aware of.

Yes, some people suffer from low iron and have to supplement if they continue to donate blood. It may not effect everyone, but it certainly happens. Thru one on the Aphaeresis methods iron is not lowered, while giving blood. I'm not sure which. The downside is that it takes an hour or two to give blood thru this method.

 

[halfwit]

They suffer from low ferritin, which is a bit different.

Uhhhh, I had a link I posted awhile ago, but the gist of it is that the apheresis machines destroy a significant amount of red blood cells in the process of separating your blood solids. This has been shown to have a conservative effect on the stores (ferritin), and also reduces HCT at the same time.

I used to just recommend platelet apheresis, but as new machines are being put into use that limit the destruction of red cells, it's not as viable as a sole means of HCT control.

For those that tend to have high HCT, even with a whole blood donation, it's still worth the time and effort as it does still reduce your HCT by around 0.5-1.0% a donation. I personally do both as I enjoy other facets of AAS use in conjunction with my doctor prescribed TRT.

Mprtz or Tron can probably cover anything I missed.

Edit: The way to tell if it's the older (and better) apheresis machine is by how it does the return and draw. The shitty new ones (supposedly they have a higher yield, they don't) will draw your blood in one arm, and return it through the other. The old ones would just use one arm, and draw/return through cycles.

I really miss the old ones in my area.

 

[halfape211]

They suffer from low ferritin, which is a bit different.

Uhhhh, I had a link I posted awhile ago, but the gist of it is that the apheresis machines destroy a significant amount of red blood cells in the process of separating your blood solids. This has been shown to have a conservative effect on the stores (ferritin), and also reduces HCT at the same time.

I used to just recommend platelet apheresis, but as new machines are being put into use that limit the destruction of red cells, it's not as viable as a sole means of HCT control.

For those that tend to have high HCT, even with a whole blood donation, it's still worth the time and effort as it does still reduce your HCT by around 0.5-1.0% a donation. I personally do both as I enjoy other facets of AAS use in conjunction with my doctor prescribed TRT.

Mprtz or Tron can probably cover anything I missed.

Edit: The way to tell if it's the older (and better) apheresis machine is by how it does the return and draw. The shitty new ones (supposedly they have a higher yield, they don't) will draw your blood in one arm, and return it through the other. The old ones would just use one arm, and draw/return through cycles.

I really miss the old ones in my area.

Thanks
(1) You must have a bloody big hard drive between your ears to remember all this stuff.
(2) I'm sure you are right about Ferritin, but Red Cross wants regular blood donors to supplement with iron. And this link says frequent donors tend to be low in iron.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...iency-anemia/basics/risk-factors/CON-20019327
But I guess you are saying that it is the ferritin levels that we need to be careful of. Which makes me think that I probably don't understand the link or difference between ferritin and iron levels. Anyways, if you say it is ferritin, I'll go with that. But it is a touch confusing.

 

[halfape211]

I was re-reading the info on Plasma and Platelet Apheresis and just noticed that there is a blood donation called a Double Red Cell Donation. I wonder if this a better as it primarily gets ride of Red Blood Cells, but returns your plasma and platelets.

Blood Donation Types | Whole Blood, Plasma, Autologous | American Red Cross

It seems logical that the "Double Red Cell" would lower HCT faster than other types of donations, but not sure about ferritin.

I suppose one would need medical education to know this, but I throw it out there.

 

[halfwit]

Thanks
(1) You must have a bloody big hard drive between your ears to remember all this stuff.
(2) I'm sure you are right about Ferritin, but Red Cross wants regular blood donors to supplement with iron. And this link says frequent donors tend to be low in iron.
Iron deficiency anemia Risk factors - Mayo Clinic
But I guess you are saying that it is the ferritin levels that we need to be careful of. Which makes me think that I probably don't understand the link or difference between ferritin and iron levels. Anyways, if you say it is ferritin, I'll go with that. But it is a touch confusing.

As I've spent every other weekend donating for the last five years, I wanted to be sure it was the best approach to tackle things. Let's just say that Google and the Internet are AWESOME tools that I frankly can't imagine living without any more lol.

Ferritin is like your iron warehouse, where you store iron that isn't being utilized. As we increase our demand for iron by making more red blood cells, these stores may become depleted. This doesn't necessarily mean that we go anemic, but some folks do notice ill effects. (It is classified as a form of anemia though in many cases)

Unfortunately, most literature and employee dialogue don't differentiate between hemoglobin and iron itself. As eugonadal folks produce red blood cells and absorb iron at much slower rates than we do, they have to (per the FDA) have guidelines to prevent them from developing anemia.

Oddly, the red cross just increased the bottom end of the range for hemoglobin, likely as they have had a large influx of younger (and smaller) donors in recent years.

For more information about the differences, I found Iron Disorders Institute:: Iron Deficiency Anemia to be pretty good. I had been told that for guys with a low ferritin, but high hemoglobin - B12 (methyl) supplementation may help considerably.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

 

[Rockymtn]

I was re-reading the info on Plasma and Platelet Apheresis and just noticed that there is a blood donation called a Double Red Cell Donation. I wonder if this a better as it primarily gets ride of Red Blood Cells, but returns your plasma and platelets.

Blood Donation Types | Whole Blood, Plasma, Autologous | American Red Cross

It seems logical that the "Double Red Cell" would lower HCT faster than other types of donations, but not sure about ferritin.

I suppose one would need medical education to know this, but I throw it out there.

^Bump^
Does anyone know if the question above is accurate?
The double red donation does give you a longer period of time before you can donate again.

 

[Mprtz]

Theoretically a double red cell donation should have twice the impact of a whole blood donation, but since the donation interval is twice as long it's kind of a wash.

Quickest way to aggressively get HCT down (under my blood bank rules) would be:

Whole blood donation, then platelet apheresis 3 days later, then platelets every 7 days until goal is reached.

 

[3J]

i actually am a bit curious too.. my hemo is at about 18.2 right now.. a bit high.. im ab+ and they beg me for plasma... half, do you recommend plat or plasma for reduction? or does plasma not even apply?

 

[Mprtz]

Funny, I'm AB+ as well. They don't really pressure me to do plasma, though I think they would prefer it and I have done it once. The equipment and process is pretty much the same, though the time spent in apheresis is about half so perhaps half the "benefit" could be expected. I have not had the opportunity check if there is a measurable reduction in HCT from plasma donation.

 

[daleb]

I would not do the double red unless u lived in the middle of nowhere and it was the only option. I wouldnt donate plasma because basically you are giving away what you had for lunch or breakfast. I wouldnt donate whole blood unless ur ferritin was high like over 120ish. If your CBC shows ur platelets are over 230, you qualify for a double platelet donation. My last double platelet knocked me down 6% and I have bloodwork to prove it. I was on the machine for 80minutes and didnt mind one single bit. I was only at 180 monday so they would only let me do a single platelet donation. So I might have to go back. Also...this is dependant on the aphresis machine. Some machines do a better job separating out the platelets without damaging red blood cells. So... if you run a CBC 2 weeks after ur platelet donation and ur only down 1% then you have to find a different place. The best places are cancer hospitals that have their own unaffiliated blood bank. Red Cross or regional donation sites are worth a try but they have newer better equipment. So to summarize

Double Red - almost never
Whole Red - if ferritin is over 120
plasma - if its the only option and the machines are not new varify by running a cbc 2 weeks after.
platelets - preferred unless the machines are new then do the legwork to find some place with an older machine.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Im so happy i havent had to donate before. maybe from lower iron in diet?
i say donate if you need to, the doing it at home blood letting thing creeps me out and i think its crazy but some do it.