Higher Fat Diets? Acceptable?

[Conrad0032]

So I eat around 320 protein/110 fat/440 carbs/ 4100 calories a day and I always have a damn hard time getting all those carbs in! Should I up my fats by say 20 grams and decrease the carbs by 45? Would this be harmful at all. Do I really need all those carbs as I usually only eat 280 of them before 5 PM... Any advice is appreciated.

Also, are there any easy to down carb sources... I eat oats, rice, sweet potato, and whole grain pasta but all of them are pretty obnoxious to eat. Pasta's probably the easiest to down.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

Absolutely. Fats are an essential macro, carbs are not. I personally enjoy higher fat in my diet. I love peanut butter lol. Most days I get in ~120g fat on a 4k cal diet. As for carb sources, I don't give a fuck what anyone says, don't be afraid of "quick" carb sources. I eat ice cream and poptarts literally EVERY day and I am not fat. Obviously that changes when on a caloric restriction, and those aren't my ONLY sources of carbs. I still eat rice, oats, potatoes, etc. You could also switch from whole grain pasta to like tortellini or raviolis. As long as you are tracking your macros, you'll be fine. A well balanced diet beats a "clean" diet any day. Bulking doesn't have to consist of broccoli, rice, and chicken.

 

[Conrad0032]

Amen to peanut butter. Wish I could just kill the jar and call it a day haha. Sounds good I'll probably up the fats to maybe 30% my daily calories. So it'll be around 30 fat, 30 protein, 40 carb. Awwww yea 20 more g of fat means more peanut butter, YES! Mannnn wish I could just eat ice cream and pop tarts . This nutrition thing's drilled to deep in my head for me to be able to eat that without post traumatic eating guilt xD

Yea sometimes I get the whole grain tortellinis, those are so damn good Can kill a couple boxes with ease.

Anyone else have some input ?

 

[DustinLee]

How about drinking lots of milk? Ive known "hardgainers" that went to drinking a half to full gallon a day and started putting on weight like no ones business. It does suck eating that much sometimes. You have to keep shoveling it in even if you feel like its just going to come back out lol.

 

[Conrad0032]

How about drinking lots of milk? Ive known "hardgainers" that went to drinking a half to full gallon a day and started putting on weight like no ones business. It does suck eating that much sometimes. You have to keep shoveling it in even if you feel like its just going to come back out lol.

true true. Milk's got a ton of sugar and I try and keep the sugar to a minimum each day except post workout and breakfast. Also my friends tell me I'm slightly lactose intolerant, but I think I'm fine haha XD

 

[DustinLee]

true true. Milk's got a ton of sugar and I try and keep the sugar to a minimum each day except post workout and breakfast. Also my friends tell me I'm slightly lactose intolerant, but I think I'm fine haha XD

Lol noxious fumes from down under! Yeah my post workout meal is 10oz chicken, 2 cups of fresh produce, and 2.5cups of white rice or quinoa. I just eat lots of chicken breast because Ill cook pounds at a time so I have snacks and meal ready all the time for work. Sweet potatoes, milk, eggs, peanut butter, shakes, all that good junk

 

[3J]

fats are absolutely acceptable esp when your daily needs are that high..

i personally dont like the idea of using simple sugars unless your body is having a harder time gaining.. at some point you do move from complex carbs to semi-simple and simple carbs..

but its highly predicated on the individual.. that's where cpt and i disagree.. cpt is not "fat" and can have those carbs while staying lean.. the metabolism allows it..

many dont have that type of luck.. and need to stick to complex carbs...

 

[DreDay187]

absolutely. Fats are an essential macro, carbs are not. I personally enjoy higher fat in my diet. I love peanut butter lol. Most days i get in ~120g fat on a 4k cal diet. As for carb sources, i don't give a fuck what anyone says, don't be afraid of "quick" carb sources. I eat ice cream and poptarts literally every day and i am not fat. Obviously that changes when on a caloric restriction, and those aren't my only sources of carbs. I still eat rice, oats, potatoes, etc. You could also switch from whole grain pasta to like tortellini or raviolis. As long as you are tracking your macros, you'll be fine. A well balanced diet beats a "clean" diet any day. Bulking doesn't have to consist of broccoli, rice, and chicken.

x2

 

[DreDay187]

So I eat around 320 protein/110 fat/440 carbs/ 4100 calories a day and I always have a damn hard time getting all those carbs in! Should I up my fats by say 20 grams and decrease the carbs by 45? Would this be harmful at all. Do I really need all those carbs as I usually only eat 280 of them before 5 PM... Any advice is appreciated.

Also, are there any easy to down carb sources... I eat oats, rice, sweet potato, and whole grain pasta but all of them are pretty obnoxious to eat. Pasta's probably the easiest to down.

What are your stats? Are you having trouble filling the calories or just meeting carb macros? Protein is the most satiating macro and chances are you can reduce the protein intake, make up for it in fats, get some more peanut butter in , and not sacrifice any gains. Also unless its a matter of convenience there's no real reason not to have carbs after 5pm, unless you workout late in the evening in which case it could be beneficial to add carbs.

I usually soak my oats in a cup of milk and add protein powder. Let it sit for an hour or more and it softens up and presto...Proats!

 

[DreDay187]

Amen to peanut butter. Wish I could just kill the jar and call it a day haha. Sounds good I'll probably up the fats to maybe 30% my daily calories. So it'll be around 30 fat, 30 protein, 40 carb. Awwww yea 20 more g of fat means more peanut butter, YES! Mannnn wish I could just eat ice cream and pop tarts . This nutrition thing's drilled to deep in my head for me to be able to eat that without post traumatic eating guilt xD

Yea sometimes I get the whole grain tortellinis, those are so damn good Can kill a couple boxes with ease.

Anyone else have some input ?

Don't have a deep seated irrational fear or guilt about including certain things to your diet in moderation being the important point. That way of thinking can foster an unhealthy relationship with food and lead to ED, eating disorders to penis problems lol.

 

[DreDay187]

true true. Milk's got a ton of sugar and I try and keep the sugar to a minimum each day except post workout and breakfast. Also my friends tell me I'm slightly lactose intolerant, but I think I'm fine haha XD

DustinLee makes a great point, milk is an amazing bulk staple for me, even on cuts I still drink it. Milk is high protein and a complete source, the saturated fat is used in hormonal production, vitamin D is also used to produce hormones and is found in every cell of your body, calcium, etc.

Let me ask you this in terms of sugar: what do the carbs in oatmeal get converted to be an energy source? What about the carbs/sugars in milk? Yes they both turn to glucose. The body sees and uses the glucose, not sugar or non-sugar.

 

[Conrad0032]

What are your stats? Are you having trouble filling the calories or just meeting carb macros? Protein is the most satiating macro and chances are you can reduce the protein intake, make up for it in fats, get some more peanut butter in , and not sacrifice any gains. Also unless its a matter of convenience there's no real reason not to have carbs after 5pm, unless you workout late in the evening in which case it could be beneficial to add carbs.

I usually soak my oats in a cup of milk and add protein powder. Let it sit for an hour or more and it softens up and presto...Proats!

215lbs at around 11% BF. Got it measured at 9% but I don't think that's right... I'm just having problems getting all my carbs in. Protein and fats are easy; calories would be too if I didn't have to eat so many carbs. I get all my macros each day, just it's a pain in the ass and usually end up eating a fair amount of carbs later in the day even though I'm not lifting. I'mm probably just go with the 30/40/30 (pro/carb/fat) split so that'll put me at around 320g/400g/130g... I think (did it in my head).

DreDay, true everything gets converted to glucose, but some things take a while longer to convert (complex carbs), which prevents the insulin spike and keeps your body levels stable. I'll drink milk, maybe 3-4 cups a day with my protein shakes post workout and before bed, but other than that, not really.

 

[frank.tb]

215lbs at around 11% BF. Got it measured at 9% but I don't think that's right... I'm just having problems getting all my carbs in. Protein and fats are easy; calories would be too if I didn't have to eat so many carbs. I get all my macros each day, just it's a pain in the ass and usually end up eating a fair amount of carbs later in the day even though I'm not lifting. I'mm probably just go with the 30/40/30 (pro/carb/fat) split so that'll put me at around 320g/400g/130g... I think (did it in my head).

DreDay, true everything gets converted to glucose, but some things take a while longer to convert (complex carbs), which prevents the insulin spike and keeps your body levels stable. I'll drink milk, maybe 3-4 cups a day with my protein shakes post workout and before bed, but other than that, not really.

How tall are you?

 

[DreDay187]

215lbs at around 11% BF. Got it measured at 9% but I don't think that's right... I'm just having problems getting all my carbs in. Protein and fats are easy; calories would be too if I didn't have to eat so many carbs. I get all my macros each day, just it's a pain in the ass and usually end up eating a fair amount of carbs later in the day even though I'm not lifting. I'mm probably just go with the 30/40/30 (pro/carb/fat) split so that'll put me at around 320g/400g/130g... I think (did it in my head).

DreDay, true everything gets converted to glucose, but some things take a while longer to convert (complex carbs), which prevents the insulin spike and keeps your body levels stable. I'll drink milk, maybe 3-4 cups a day with my protein shakes post workout and before bed, but other than that, not really.

Do not do set your macros up as a percentage of total calories. It can leave you overdoing one macro and severely deficient in another. Rather calculate TDEE and set protein to 1g/lb BW and dietary fat to .4g/lb BW. The remaining Calories can be any macro or combination of multpie macros. You have way more than enough protein in your diet so if it's an issue of appetite, reduce protein since its the most satiating macro. If its just bc you have a tough time eating carbs in general than swap some carbs for dietary fat but keep total calories the same. There's no reason to be worried about eating carbs before bed, even if its an off day from the gym. The effect of carbs does not change how your body uses them depending on the time of day.

Ok so some carb sources have a high glycemic index and get absorbed and digested quicker than low glycemic foods. Well glycemic load of a MEAL (not single food item) is more important than glycemic index of one food included in that meal, and the glycemic load is lowered by fat and protein. That means eating table sugar on its own will in fact spike insulin levels, i grant you that point BUT, and its a big but, when eaten in a meal combined with protein and/or fat, the glycemic load of that meal and Individual food item, in those instance table sugar, is lowered so there is no resulting insulin "spike"

And finally, are you diabetic? If the answer is no why are you worried about insulin spikes if you're eating at a caloric intake suited to your goals? Do you think you can get fat by spiking insulin when in a caloric deficit? Do you have proof that nutrition mediated hormonal responses have significance? Yes studies have shown statistical significance I.e. carbs raise insulin levels and simple carbs, when eaten by themselves will spike insulin higher than a complex carb, BUT I have yet to see any study that shows clinical significance. That means that there is a correlation yes but "why do we care" bc clinically the effect is negligible when compared in isocalroic diets. I'm starting to ramble but if the diets are isocalroic, macros are met, nutritional needs like minerals, micros, fiber etc are met insulin spikes are not something worth worrying about. If you can show studies backing up the claim that insulin spikes are detrimental to your goals in isocalroic diets I'm all ears bro but I do not think you'll find such evidence bc there are faults with those studies.

 

[DreDay187]

I should add I hope you don't take my post as being rude or attacking you, I'm simply questioning certain myths prevalent in this game. Some have sound reasoning and science behind them but not all and this is one of those things that gets blown out of proportion. Insulin is not your enemy and is in fact a necessary hormone.

 

[Conrad0032]

I should add I hope you don't take my post as being rude or attacking you, I'm simply questioning certain myths prevalent in this game. Some have sound reasoning and science behind them but not all and this is one of those things that gets blown out of proportion. Insulin is not your enemy and is in fact a necessary hormone.

Not taken as offensive I get what you're saying. All I can say is I don't care if it's a myth or not. Most all pro bodybuilders are eating such foods and do not stray too far off their diets. Now, I'm no pro or even close, but I figured that I may as well eat "clean." I'm a big believer of anecdotal evidence. People give me scientific backing on how to lift and to not "overtrain", and yet their deadlift is 200lbs lower than mine and their physiques are pathetic... Although, back on topic. The reason I eat clean is because if this is truly a myth and I can do IIFYM, then there will be no harm done regardless, however, if it's not a myth then I will be better off. Now look at it from the other side if I ate "dirty" foods: if it's a myth, then I'm good to go, if it's not and clean foods do promote a more anabolic environment... well then, I just fucked my gains over a little didn't I? People tell me I'm an ectomorph, so I need to make everything as on point as possible to try and pack on mass. Furthermore, I use to eat moderately clean/dirty 2 years back, as in I didn't pay attention to clean foods 100% of the time. The moment I changed up my diet to clean foods I feel more energetic, I can think more clearly, my muscles look denser/leaner, and I just feel healthier overall. Maybe it's in my mind, maybe I'm making this shit up due to a placebo effect, but I don't care. If it helps me physically or mentally, it's helping.

I set up 30/30/40 (pro/fat/carb) because I take 1.5g/BW for 300g protein (firm believer of higher protein as I have tried lower), which is ~30% of my daily calories. Then I throw in .5gfat/kg, which is about 100g fat (~25%), and the rest carbs (leaving ~45%). So I figured I'd just up the fats and lower the carbs by 5% each. I still pay attention to macros with relation to BW, and then incorporate them to the % split. I don't mean to throw it out at I'm only paying attention to the %.

Frank I'm 6'2", 19 years old. Sorry forgot those.

 

[DreDay187]

Not taken as offensive I get what you're saying. All I can say is I don't care if it's a myth or not. Most all pro bodybuilders are eating such foods and do not stray too far off their diets. Now, I'm no pro or even close, but I figured that I may as well eat "clean." I'm a big believer of anecdotal evidence. People give me scientific backing on how to lift and to not "overtrain", and yet their deadlift is 200lbs lower than mine and their physiques are pathetic... Although, back on topic. The reason I eat clean is because if this is truly a myth and I can do IIFYM, then there will be no harm done regardless, however, if it's not a myth then I will be better off. Now look at it from the other side if I ate "dirty" foods: if it's a myth, then I'm good to go, if it's not and clean foods do promote a more anabolic environment... well then, I just fucked my gains over a little didn't I? People tell me I'm an ectomorph, so I need to make everything as on point as possible to try and pack on mass. Furthermore, I use to eat moderately clean/dirty 2 years back, as in I didn't pay attention to clean foods 100% of the time. The moment I changed up my diet to clean foods I feel more energetic, I can think more clearly, my muscles look denser/leaner, and I just feel healthier overall. Maybe it's in my mind, maybe I'm making this shit up due to a placebo effect, but I don't care. If it helps me physically or mentally, it's helping.

I set up 30/30/40 (pro/fat/carb) because I take 1.5g/BW for 300g protein (firm believer of higher protein as I have tried lower), which is ~30% of my daily calories. Then I throw in .5gfat/kg, which is about 100g fat (~25%), and the rest carbs (leaving ~45%). So I figured I'd just up the fats and lower the carbs by 5% each. I still pay attention to macros with relation to BW, and then incorporate them to the % split. I don't mean to throw it out at I'm only paying attention to the %.

Frank I'm 6'2", 19 years old. Sorry forgot those.

Thanks for not taking it personal .

Well first and foremost, I would argue following all the pros without at least questioning their methods is a logical fallacy of appealing to authority. This doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong but it does mean that no one is above being questioned to suppor their beliefs. Now for the pros and anyone who calculates caloric needs and macros and fills them with mainly whole and minimally processed foods is in fact doing DCA/IIFYM whether you accept it or not: you are still taking foods and usin them to fill your macros are you not? IIFYM doesn't mean fill all your macros with "dirty" foods and its not "anti-clean" (I don't believe in those words hence the quotes lol). What it does do is say that when your nutritional needs have been met with mainly whole and minimally processed foods (this means minimum macro and micro needs) that the remainder of your calories can be filled with whatever macros you want from whatever source that you want, the source of the macro isn't as important as the macro itself bc remember, we stipulated already needs have been met and there's still calories left to be filled. That doesn't mean eat a gallon of ice cream, but if you wanted a few scoops, have some and cut some carbs and fats from your next meal to keep energy intake constant. Contrary to popular belief, you can GEt fat regardless of the food source. A "clean" calorie is still a calorie just like a "dirty one".

All i really argue for is convenience a d consistency within the parameters of what works. If you happen to enjoy eating "clean" foods and they fit your macros, there's no reason to change but if you torture yourself to stay away from certain things it will eventually lead to an eating disorder or at the very least and unhealthy relationship with food.

When you say you switched over to "clean" foods and noticed all the changes I'm willing to bet the body composition ones came in large part to caloric restriction not source of calories just for the simple fact it's easier to overeat on junk food. If you enjoy what you're doing, by all means stick with it. What the pros do works "in spite of what they do not always because of what they do" meaning its not the fact that they eat chicken breast and broccoli that gives them body composition results, its getting the proper amount of calories and macros that does it. I know people that eat at McDonald's 2-3x/day and watch their calories and macros religiously and they're around 210-250 and anywhere from 9-14%BF. don't take this as me telling you to eat McDonald's, its just evidence that calories and macros are king, sources are like the little servants lol.

Anyway before I bore you with my lengthy diatribe ill leave you with a few articles if you're interested in reading up on them, all of which are referenced and cite real science to back them up.

At 300g protein again you have more than plenty. If you raise protein too mun relative to the rest of your caloric/macro intake you run the risk of gluconeogeneiss or the conversion of protein to glucose to use as a fuel source. .5g/lb BW of dietary fat intake is above the minimum essential needs (obviously make sure to get a mix of EFA's, some saturated fat which is important for hormonal production, and unstaturated fats). If you're having trouble filling calories than your idea is a great one: fat is more caloric dense than carbs so by switching some back and forth you can get an easier opportunity to keep your energy intake where it needs to be. Just remember if you want to keep calories the same, carbs are 4cals/g and fat is 9cals/g so bringing one down 5% and the other up 5% you'll change the total calories.

Sorry I went off and it wouldn't surprise me if you glossed it over since I rambled and its not my best writing lol but to answer your question you can def change up carbs and fat and the difference in body composition, provided isocalroic diets, will be negligible. Best of luck to you brother .

Elements Challenging the Glycemic Index - AlanAragon.com - Fitness Based on Science & Experience

The Dirt on Clean Eating | Wannabebig

 

[Conrad0032]

Quite the post you have there.

First, I understand I am doing IIFYM, but most people when they refer to IIFYM they throw in junk food and other shit like that. Hence, I refer to IIFYM in that sense. Very, very few people refer to IIFYM with non-junk food...

I don't enjoy eating oats all the time and other shit, but I don't mind it. If it gives me peace of mind then by all means I will do it. Maybe I'm torturing myself, but it does make me stronger mentally. I am more able to resist temptations of any kind and have self-control. So it's not just about the macros and eating "clean," as you say.

I ate the same amount of calories with my moderately "dirty" diet and my "clean" diet, so I can say without a doubt it was from the clean foods. Not to mention my training remained the same. I wasn't eating junk but I wasn't really eating clean during my "dirty" phase. It was a crossbreed between the two. I do believe there is a reason pros and such eat like they do, it's because it's been a proven method time and time again to show good results. I'm waiting for the day an IIFYM (again referring to the general IIFYM, filling the remaining macros with "junk") bodybuilding steps on the olympia stage. As for your friends, I'm not sure if they are natty or not, if they are not I feel food has a far lesser impact on the body as the body's protein synthesis is greatly increased and everything is put to use. Furthermore, who's to say they won't get better results if they dropped the McDonalds and started eating more nutritious foods? Sure they make decent gains, but they can make good or even great gains if they eat better possible. Consider that. Some people have good genetics and get away with eating like shit and half-assed training. Hell Benedikt Magnusson deadlifted over 500lbs his 2nd time deadlifting at 14 or 15 I believe, after sustained a harsh back injury and eating like shit. On the other hand I know people who've trained for several years and can't pull 500 yet. Life's the meanest bitch of them all when it comes to genetics.

In the end, I'm not going to change my ways. I'm stuck in this way and lifestyle. If you can't gulp down some oats, rice, 93/7 beef, and chicken... well at the end of the day that's rather weak minded (I'm not attacking you, this is just my opinion. I'm stubborn and stuck in my ways xD) and is not a proper way to show dedication towards one's goal. There's a great speech, however I forgot who was the author, where he preached that if you can't get up and make your bed in the morning, how the hell will you ever expect to be someone successful? Hard work and discipline carry over from one aspect to another, rather or not you notice. You shy on your diet, then you begin cutting a set or two out in your workouts and don't push yourself. Eventually you end up selling yourself short on your progress. I've seen it happen with a couple people I know.

I meant I will raise the fats 5% of my daily caloric intake and lower the carbs 5% of my daily caloric intake. Sorry if that was unclear.

Thank you for the time to write that post. If someone has time to write a post on my thread I will read it. Not too respectful to just gloss over it haha. I will check out those articles as well. Thanks again.

 

[prisonsex]

For whatever its worth I agree with 3J. I've been in this game a long time and I've known a lot of PLs that indulge in short carbs. I've only know 2 BBs that do so and honestly both of them have mediocre physiques at best. If you can eat ice cream and pop tarts and stay ripped you are an outlier. Most guys I know strive to keep insulin levels stable with a few exceptions (after waking, post workout, pre show, etc.).

Also, I ain't hating. If you can pull it off by all means carry on. Hell if I could eat ice cream and pop tarts that's exactly what I would do.

fats are absolutely acceptable esp when your daily needs are that high..

i personally dont like the idea of using simple sugars unless your body is having a harder time gaining.. at some point you do move from complex carbs to semi-simple and simple carbs..

but its highly predicated on the individual.. that's where cpt and i disagree.. cpt is not "fat" and can have those carbs while staying lean.. the metabolism allows it..

many dont have that type of luck.. and need to stick to complex carbs...