How can I make the most gains on a 8.5 week cycle?

[ace_]

I have enough time this summer before moving that I can do a 60 day cycle and get most of my post cycle therapy (pct) done before having to move. At that point I'll bring the rest of the post cycle therapy (pct) with me on the flight in my checked bags but there's no way I'm bringing actual gear with me on a flight.

Anyways, I have never done a cycle before and won't be able to do another cycle after this one until Summer 2014 so I want to make the most of this cycle.

I was originally planning on doing:
Test Prop - 100mg EoD
Anavar - 50mg ED

But that is no longer an option as I can't get the anavar. So I decided to switch out the anavar for Tren Ace at an extremely low dose. I also decided I was going to inject every day in order to keep stable blood levels. So that would be:

Test Prop - 50mg ED
Tren Ace - 25mg ED

hcg - last 4 weeks
Arimadex on hand

post cycle therapy (pct) - Clomid/Nolva. (Hoping to get some torem to replace the clomid but still would get clomid incase I couldn't find torem).

I made a post on another steroid forum and basically got told that I was going to fuck myself up and shouldn't be doing Tren on a first cycle, and that sides would be unbearable and that I was an imbecile for not getting liver support for the tren (which doesn't make sense, why would I need liver support for injectable tren?). I was also told I'd become a pimple faced monster and that they would laugh at me when I came back in a few months trying to stop my nipples from lactating. Obviously I won't be visiting that forum anymore.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, I don't see why doing a small dose of Tren A on my first cycle would be so bad. Worst case scenario is I get some sides I don't like and then I just stop taking the Tren Ace and it's out of my system in 48-72hrs.

So should I go ahead and do that cycle or should I replace the tren with something else? I like tren for it's strength and size gains, and also it's fat burning properties and vascularity effects. That was pretty much why I wanted Anavar as well but once I learned that I couldn't get it in time, I decided to replace it with a small dose of tren.

So, do that cycle or not? If not, what should I do instead? Again, I only have time for an 8-9 week cycle. I was planning a 60 day cycle for the test prop/tren ace cycle.

Stats:
Age: 21, 6'4" 198lbs, 9-10% bodyfat. Lifting almost 4 years. No prior cycles other than 5 test boosters. View attachment 551040

 

[harlyhog]

rule of thumb is test only for first cycle and if you want to run 8 weeks run the prop 75mg ed or 150mg eod.

 

[ace_]

rule of thumb is test only for first cycle and if you want to run 8 weeks run the prop 75mg ed or 150mg eod.

Yeah I know that's the rule of thumb. Why does everyone say not to take anything else first cycle? I feel like 8 weeks of test prop isn't enough to make significant gains.

Do people say that because first time cyclers generally can't handle side effects? Because if that's the case then I feel like that would be opinionated. I think I could handle the sides of a low dose of tren and if not, I can always just stop taking the tren and continue with the test prop, since tren ace is a short ester.

Or is there another reason why you should stick to test only for the first cycle?

 

[harlyhog]

oxandrolone would of been ok to go with your first cycle but dude i would hold off on the tren. 1 your 21, 2 you dont know how your body will react to the test alone. just run the prop save the other shit for later. Do what you want but you wont hear anything else from anyone else. Just be smart and dont fuck yourself up bud .atleast you have your Aromatase inhibitor (AI), hct and pct somewhat in order

 

[harlyhog]

how do you know you wont make significant gains? you have never cycled! Dude you will gain 15-25 lbs with 8 weeks of prop if your diet is on point TRUST ME Its your first cycle your receptors are fresh

 

[harlyhog]

Yeah I know that's the rule of thumb. Why does everyone say not to take anything else first cycle? I feel like 8 weeks of test prop isn't enough to make significant gains.

Do people say that because first time cyclers generally can't handle side effects? Because if that's the case then I feel like that would be opinionated. I think I could handle the sides of a low dose of tren and if not, I can always just stop taking the tren and continue with the test prop, since tren ace is a short ester.

Or is there another reason why you should stick to test only for the first cycle?

your 21 you should have some good natty test levels. tren will shut you down hard and the sides can be rough. yea thats the only reason people say test only.

 

[harlyhog]

and you dont know nuff bout tren man......what are you gonna use for the tren sides? prolactin gyno? no caber? or primi? and you know that nolva and 19 nors dont mix right?

 

[ace_]

how do you know you wont make significant gains? you have never cycled! Dude you will gain 15-25 lbs with 8 weeks of prop if your diet is on point TRUST ME Its your first cycle your receptors are fresh

How much test prop should I be taking then? Aside from the gains from taking tren, I wanted to take tren because it makes you lose water weight, makes you shredded and vascular. I don't want to get bloated or hold a lot of water from Test Prop, and I wanted to take tren so I could lean bulk.

Also I've gone through 5 test boosters in the past year, so I don't know how fresh my receptors are after that.

 

[ace_]

and you dont know nuff bout tren man......what are you gonna use for the tren sides? prolactin gyno? no caber? or primi? and you know that nolva and 19 nors dont mix right?

Yeah, but taking nolva as a PCT is fine. You can't take nolva during the cycle of tren though.

 

[old&stacked]

The same way you make the best of a 10, 12, or 16 week cycle. Diet and rest, what most of young and uneducated new AAS users dont understand is that 90% of your growth comea from your diet and your rest to include sleep.

You need an optimal diet for an 8 week cycle. Something that you will get the most out of. Now remeber if you keep 5 lbs out of this it will be good. Your rest cycle is also your best friend. Try a a 3 on 1 off and only train one muscle group per day no more than 1 hour a day and no more tgan 15 min of cardio.

Since your looking for mass your reps should not go higher than 8 per set but nothing lower than 4. So all in all 8 weeks is not optimal but if u take your diet rest and sleep into serious consideration u will see some gains. And as stated Test only cycle.

Yet am almost possitive that if you do a correct diet rest and sleep it might take longer but ur gains will be the same if not more and these will be gains that will stay if u go natty. Remeber AAS is not a short cut to hard work and you should still be trying to get as much as possible natty. Natty gains are tye best gains. These will be your base when u go into using AAS and @ 6'1 I personnaly would not start any AAS use until I was 220+ natty.

Good luck

 

[harlyhog]

How much test prop should I be taking then? Aside from the gains from taking tren, I wanted to take tren because it makes you lose water weight, makes you shredded and vascular. I don't want to get bloated or hold a lot of water from Test Prop, and I wanted to take tren so I could lean bulk.

Also I've gone through 5 test boosters in the past year, so I don't know how fresh my receptors are after that.

as for nolva it will make recovery harder unless you bodys completely clear of the tren prop doesnt hold as much water as the longer esters and thats why you have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) my friend

 

[warkhawk]

Yup natty levels are probably high as shit.

I know you don't want to hear this but you can still make great gains in your early 20s without aas. Just takes time, food, rest..ect

 

[ace_]

Yup natty levels are probably high as shit.

I know you don't want to hear this but you can still make great gains in your early 20s without aas. Just takes time, food, rest..ect

I can't gain weight anymore. I have Crohns Disease so it's extremely hard. (I've done research though and AAS won't effect Crohns and many Crohns patients have taken AAS).

For the past few years I wasn't on any medication and could gain weight fairly easily but I can't do that anymore. I had a major flare up December-March and went from 210 down to 190 and I've gained some weight back from an 8 week Test Booster cycle but cannot gain weight now that I'm off (I've been off for over a month).

I'm now on Sulfasalazine. There's no reason why that should stop me from gaining weight. It's not a corticosteroid or anything, it's just a sulfa drug. It won't have any interference or problems with taking steroids. I was actually on a corticosteroid from February-March which sucked. Dat dere catabolism.

I've been tracking calories and macros for 4-5 weeks now and haven't gained a single pound. Strength is continuing to go up pretty slowly but that's about it. I've also gained more fat since I was down to 6.5% during my flare up. I've been eating 3600-4000 calories a day, C/P/F = 50/30/20.

 

[warkhawk]

I can't gain weight anymore. I have Crohns Disease so it's extremely hard. (I've done research though and AAS won't effect Crohns and many Crohns patients have taken AAS).

For the past few years I wasn't on any medication and could gain weight fairly easily but I can't do that anymore. I had a major flare up December-March and went from 210 down to 190 and I've gained some weight back from an 8 week Test Booster cycle but cannot gain weight now that I'm off (I've been off for over a month).

I'm now on Sulfasalazine. There's no reason why that should stop me from gaining weight. It's not a corticosteroid or anything, it's just a sulfa drug. It won't have any interference or problems with taking steroids. I was actually on a corticosteroid from February-March which sucked. Dat dere catabolism.

I've been tracking calories and macros for 4-5 weeks now and haven't gained a single pound. Strength is continuing to go up pretty slowly but that's about it. I've also gained more fat since I was down to 6.5% during my flare up. I've been eating....

Sorry about that, I didn't know.

 

[ace_]

Sorry about that, I didn't know.

No need to be sorry lol. Crohn's has already destroyed my hopes and dreams as far as my career goes, so not gaining weight, while a big deal to me, is nothing compared to that. I've accepted my disease and don't need pity

If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that shit happens and you need to learn to adapt and overcome. I'm just trying to figure out what to do for this cycle.

 

[GoPro]

Yeah I know that's the rule of thumb. Why does everyone say not to take anything else first cycle? I feel like 8 weeks of test prop isn't enough to make significant gains.

Do people say that because first time cyclers generally can't handle side effects? Because if that's the case then I feel like that would be opinionated. I think I could handle the sides of a low dose of tren and if not, I can always just stop taking the tren and continue with the test prop, since tren ace is a short ester.

Or is there another reason why you should stick to test only for the first cycle?

Sorry to here about your condition, I know it wont slow you down though. You stick to test only because you have no clue how your body will respond to it. You could get terrible acne for example, or really bad gyno. Its just a safety precaution. LIke i have a couple cycle under my belt, and i am Running 500mgs Test E @ 2x week, 600mgs Test Prop @ EOD (for the first 4-6 weeks only, then bring it down to 200mgs a week), 50mgs Tren A EOD. I have had some real sides from the tren even though i have stacked steroids before. Bad enough that i have considered stop taking it. Bad night sweats, aggression, acne, cant sleep but 4-6 hours a night, and thats on only 150mgs tren a week!!! I never experienced any of these thing, except acne and oily skin, till i tried Tren. And that is the reason we say Test only. If i were you with your stats i would run 500mgs Test E or C for 12 weeks. 500mgs @ 2x weekly. You may through in some Var at like 40-50mgs ED to keep your gains much longer after you cycle off. You will be amazed at the result you will get brother. And besides that, you would get crappy gains with low cycles like that. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ace_]

You stick to test only because you have no clue how your body will respond to it. You could get terrible acne for example, or really bad gyno. Its just a safety precaution. LIke i have a couple cycle under my belt, and i am Running 500mgs Test E @ 2x week, 600mgs Test Prop @ EOD, 50mgs Tren A EOD. I have had some real sides from the tren even though i have stacked steroids before. Bad enough that i have considered stop taking it. Bad night sweats, aggression, acne, cant sleep but 4-6 hours a night, and thats on only 150mgs tren a week!!! I never experienced any of these thing, except acne and oily skin, till i tried Tren. And that is the reason we say Test only. If i were you with your stats i would run 500mgs Test E or C for 12 weeks. 500mgs @ 2x weekly. You will be amazed at the result you will get brother. And besides that, you would get crappy gains with low cycles like that. Just my 2 cents.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation and example. I don't have the time to run a 12 week cycle. I could do 10 weeks max. I don't want to do Test E or C because of the bloating you get with it.

If I were to do an 8-10 week Test Prop only cycle, what dosage should I take?

 

[ki7hy]

only tren can be worthwhile in such a short time, bump it to 50 mg ED and youre good

When he says "bump it up to 50mg ed he means the prop not the tren I hope....21, you don't need tren today. Prop is your best bet right now just work hard and eat everything you can to gain due to your condition.

 

[GoPro]

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation and example. I don't have the time to run a 12 week cycle. I could do 10 weeks max. I don't want to do Test E or C because of the bloating you get with it.

If I were to do an 8-10 week Test Prop only cycle, what dosage should I take?

I would run just the same, 600mgs @ 3x weekly (to keep stable blood levels cause its a shorter ester). You should still get great results on a cycle that short. And the espescially since you are on Prop. Prop will kick in with in 4-7 days. So you don't have the 3-4 week waiting period you do with the longer ester Testosterones. I could actually feel the Test Prop of mine on day 4 or 5. And shit gives me a better rush/pump/workout than Longer Ester Tests. Let me know if you got any other questions man.

 

[GoPro]

only tren can be worthwhile in such a short time, bump it to 50 mg ED and youre good

alot of orals can give amazing gains in a short time. Like consider D-bol. with TREN You get good quality, tight, dense muscle. It can be used for cutting and bulking. But to cut with it you need to already have lower body fat. And for a first time Tren run 150mgs a week is more than enough, trust me.