Dirkmcgirk
New member
tyia
How long can you safely run a test cyp blast if you are on trt
- Thread starter Dirkmcgirk
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Dirkmcgirk
New member
you don't literally mean i could run it for a 26 weeks so long as my hemacrit and prolactin were in order do you?
Yes he does and what? Wanna fight?
halfwit
I like turtles.
Lipids, kidney function, liver enzymes, triglycerides, and the other goodies too. But, yes.
Remember though, AAS is also hard on connective tissues too. If you blasted on a heavy cycle for a year, I'm sure you'd develop some joint/tendon issues along the way.
Dirkmcgirk
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Southernfish
New member
Ya I agree 100% with halfwit. Health is number one priority. So if you get regular bloodwork and checkups and everything comes back a-ok then whats the issue? There isnt one!! What wouldnt be ok and a possible risk would be to go on a long heavy blast and not get regular check ups and have no idea whats going on until something goes wrong. There are risks but there are ways to minimize them and possibly eliminate them altogether.
jolter604
I am banned!
How long can you run tren for?
halfwit
I like turtles.
There are two parts:
1. Most AAS decreases collagen synthesis in the human body. As connective tissues are made from collagen, this means they get weaker over time. In fact, I'm using this to build a case for this "cutting edge" endo I'm going to see, so I can get HGH added to my protocol. (HGH promotes collagen synthesis)
2. As AAS increases nitrogen retention, and promotes muscle repair at an accelerated rate, but does not for supporting structures, you may become too strong for your joints/tendons/ligaments. This is fairly common with folks that have never really spent much time in the gym, then jump into AAS. As connective tissues take time to build, and they're still weak - an unhappy scenario usually unfolds.
I'm still at work, so I don't have any links to studies for the first item, but I'm sure Google can find them for you.
Dirkmcgirk
New member
Lol @ Tren. I would kill myself if I had to pin Ed or eod. After my cut I'll have run 400mg of cyp a week for 12 weeks. I'll get blood work at the end of July making it 16 weeks on 400mg 4 of which will be on a maintenance diet or a tiny bit higher. If everything is ok maybe I'll run it too September 1.
anzel
New member
1st cycle??? 16 wks is long enough. Save some for the sequel.
anzel
New member
There are two parts:
1. Most AAS decreases collagen synthesis in the human body. As connective tissues are made from collagen, this means they get weaker over time. In fact, I'm using this to build a case for this "cutting edge" endo I'm going to see, so I can get HGH added to my protocol. (HGH promotes collagen synthesis)
2. As AAS increases nitrogen retention, and promotes muscle repair at an accelerated rate, but does not for supporting structures, you may become too strong for your joints/tendons/ligaments. This is fairly common with folks that have never really spent much time in the gym, then jump into AAS. As connective tissues take time to build, and they're still weak - an unhappy scenario usually unfolds.
I'm still at work, so I don't have any links to studies for the first item, but I'm sure Google can find them for you.
So you would basically say to this endo that years of being on TRT has made your tendons noticeably weaker and here is all the research that proves it and here is the research that proves HGH helps it......?
Dirkmcgirk
New member
I wonder what over the counter hth would run on such a protocol
halfwit
I like turtles.
After having shoulder surgery a few months ago (benign tumor/growth), my surgeon had a bazillion and one questions for me about TRT as he has been noticing a small increase in rotator cuff repairs, and has already correlated the connection between the two as a fair number of the folks are on replacement or cycle AAS.
While my tendons are in pretty good shape, I did express concern as I've read a few studies on the subject and bounced the idea off of him as being an orthopedic surgeon, he could have possibly prescribed me HGH as a preventative "trial case". Of course I had ulterior motives, but it seemed like as good of a chance to get pharmaceutical grade HGH paid for by insurance. Sadly, he got cold feet and suggested I speak with an endo as they can be a little more creative in writing a script.
I pulled up some case studies, and did some inquiries with a few doctors to see who (obviously using a great deal of tact) was in the area and would specialize enough to be able to investigate and potentially treat such a new "potential issue".
Unfortunately, he's one of those prima Donna types, and has a 6 month waiting list - so I'm just biding my time and trying to perfect my sales pitch lol. The main idea behind it being a preventative measure, and I'd be willing to let him submit any findings to attract more business.
It's still a long shot as the federal government here in the US really has a tight grip on HGH, and the science being recognized is still fairly obscure. I'm sure in the next twenty years it will become mainstream, but I really would rather prevent any problems than treat them as is common practice today.
So in a nutshell, exactly what you said Anzel.
Increase skeletal muscle & collagen synthesis with certain AAS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(originally posted by AnimalMass)
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(originally posted by AnimalMass)
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
__________________
anzel
New member
After having shoulder surgery a few months ago (benign tumor/growth), my surgeon had a bazillion and one questions for me about TRT as he has been noticing a small increase in rotator cuff repairs, and has already correlated the connection between the two as a fair number of the folks are on replacement or cycle AAS.
While my tendons are in pretty good shape, I did express concern as I've read a few studies on the subject and bounced the idea off of him as being an orthopedic surgeon, he could have possibly prescribed me HGH as a preventative "trial case". Of course I had ulterior motives, but it seemed like as good of a chance to get pharmaceutical grade HGH paid for by insurance. Sadly, he got cold feet and suggested I speak with an endo as they can be a little more creative in writing a script.
I pulled up some case studies, and did some inquiries with a few doctors to see who (obviously using a great deal of tact) was in the area and would specialize enough to be able to investigate and potentially treat such a new "potential issue".
Unfortunately, he's one of those prima Donna types, and has a 6 month waiting list - so I'm just biding my time and trying to perfect my sales pitch lol. The main idea behind it being a preventative measure, and I'd be willing to let him submit any findings to attract more business.
It's still a long shot as the federal government here in the US really has a tight grip on HGH, and the science being recognized is still fairly obscure. I'm sure in the next twenty years it will become mainstream, but I really would rather prevent any problems than treat them as is common practice today.
So in a nutshell, exactly what you said Anzel.
Well I hope you are successful with it and thanks for explaining the baseline for your thinking. Perhaps one day I will try the same "sales pitch" myself. But not until I am sitting with the right DR.
anzel
New member
After having shoulder surgery a few months ago (benign tumor/growth), my surgeon had a bazillion and one questions for me about TRT as he has been noticing a small increase in rotator cuff repairs, and has already correlated the connection between the two as a fair number of the folks are on replacement or cycle AAS.
While my tendons are in pretty good shape, I did express concern as I've read a few studies on the subject and bounced the idea off of him as being an orthopedic surgeon, he could have possibly prescribed me HGH as a preventative "trial case". Of course I had ulterior motives, but it seemed like as good of a chance to get pharmaceutical grade HGH paid for by insurance. Sadly, he got cold feet and suggested I speak with an endo as they can be a little more creative in writing a script.
I pulled up some case studies, and did some inquiries with a few doctors to see who (obviously using a great deal of tact) was in the area and would specialize enough to be able to investigate and potentially treat such a new "potential issue".
Unfortunately, he's one of those prima Donna types, and has a 6 month waiting list - so I'm just biding my time and trying to perfect my sales pitch lol. The main idea behind it being a preventative measure, and I'd be willing to let him submit any findings to attract more business.
It's still a long shot as the federal government here in the US really has a tight grip on HGH, and the science being recognized is still fairly obscure. I'm sure in the next twenty years it will become mainstream, but I really would rather prevent any problems than treat them as is common practice today.
So in a nutshell, exactly what you said Anzel.
Well I hope you are successful with it and thanks for explaining the baseline for your thinking. Perhaps one day I will try the same "sales pitch" myself. But not until I am sitting with the right DR.
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