theblitzkrieg
Blitzkrieg
I've often noticed bodybuilders eat very little fat. Do the fat requirements change if you are using steroids? What are the reasons a 220 lbs bodybuilder should not be eating only 50g fat or less per day?
How much dietary fat on AAS?
- Thread starter theblitzkrieg
- Start date
Dietary fats are a very important macronutrient for anyone, let alone bodybuilders. Dietary fat and protein are essential macronutrients meaning the body cannot synthesize them on its own and they must be taken in through your diet. The essential fats, EFA's/omegas are the ones that need to be taken in through diet. Good sources of these fats are certain nuts and seeds like walnuts, olive oil, fish oil, cod oil, flax and flaxseed, salmon, tuna, sardines, and other fatty fish, range free whole eggs, etc. while EFA's are essential this doesn't mean we should skimp out on other sources of fat like saturated fat and monounsaturated fat. These fats are also used by the body for hormonal production, heart health, cholesterol/lipids, And many other biological processes. The only fats that you want to really stay away from are artificial transfats which are solids at room temperature. Natural sources like coconut oil and steak (yes there are transfats in fatty cuts of steak) aren't unhealthy, just their artificial brethren Are. Most places are not using artificial transfats anymore so this isn't a huge issue, just be aware of it.
Fats have an undeserved bad rap carrying over from the 90s after it came out that the primary fate of dietary fat intake was storage in fatty tissue. While this may be true, it's an incomplete and erroneous picture of what really happens in the body and this is why you see low fat/no fat products everywhere at the supermarket. The primary fate of dietary fat is storage as fat but if one is cutting for example and in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat intake is stored but the energy for you to live and go about your daily activities and training must come from somewhere so the body will pull energy from stored fat (provided protein intake remains at or above minimum needs and training is efficient enough to help preserve muscle mass). So why worry about dietary fat being stored when stored fat will be burned for energy bc of the caloric deficit you're in? It makes no sense, especially when you consider that fat is an essential nutrient and helps in many bodily processes. Now if you're in a caloric surplus should you worry about dietary fat intake? Not really bc whether the dietary fat is stored or not, the body is not 100% efficient at building muscle. This means that when you're in a surplus, the body will make some muscle (provided protein intake is sufficent and training is also) and some fat. How much of each is dependent on many factors such as insulin resistance, nutrient partitioning, p-ratio, how efficiently protein synthesis is spiked, etc. but no matter what, whether you take dietary fat or not, while you're in a caloric surplus you will gain some fat. It will either come from dietary fat being stored or if you eliminate fat and increase protein and carbs it will come from de novo lipogensis.
As you can see fats are a very important yet misunderstood macronutrient. People assume that they'll get fat just because of its intake. This is false, you get fat bc you're taking in more calories than you burn. Dietary fat intake doesn't really change while on or off steroids, there are minimum needs that should be met for optimal health. An exception to this would be if you have high cholesterol or lipid issues, heart issues, or another medical condition which would warrant lowering fat intake but the papering should come primarily from saturated fats bc the essential fats (polyunsaturated) and monounsaturated fats will help lower cholesterol and heart health. A good minimum to use when calculating your macros is .4g/lb of BW for dietary fat. You should have a wide variety of fats to meet this minimum and good options include olive oil, fish oil, nuts and seeds, Avacados, whole fat milk and dairy, fatty fish, fatty cuts of steak, flaxseed oil, peanut butter or any nut butter, etc.
The reason a 220lb person, not just bodybuilder, should take more than 50g of fat daily is bc that's .22g/lb of BW which is well below the minimum recommended amount and hormonal production, heart health, inflammation response to training, etc will suffer. Proof that fats aren't the reason ppl become fat is evident in ketone if diets where typically 60+% of a trainees caloric intake comes from dietary fat and there are many many ppl who do keto that are in amazing shape and great health. In closing I'd just like to say that one shouldn't be scared of any macronutrient. Each one serves a purpose for optimal health and training and a well rounded diet comprised of mainly whole and minimally processed foods will serve this purpose. If you want to limit fat gains on a bulk, reduce the level of caloric surplus don't necessarily cut out fats. If you're fat and want to cut fat, you won't accomplish this by cutting fats while still remaining in a caloric surplus. The body is too adapted to survival to be tricked by just cutting fats out, a whole dietary plan is necessary to cut fat, one that incorporates a caloric deficit, meets minimum macro needs, and great training. Don't fall for the misconceptions of the media and general public when it comes to fats, rather educate yourself on diet and nutrition and learn how to incorporate them into your daily diet wisely. Or if you want the lazy but incredibly effective way out, hook up with 3J and he'll customize a diet just for you, one that has plenty of dietary fat
Sorry if that post was all over the place. I'm on the run and couldn't clearly gather my thoughts but I wanted to get it out there that fats are necessary and healthy. If anything is confusing don't hesitate to ask and we can explain that point further. I'm sure 3J will be jumping in here as well since it's the diet section and I'm sure he'll want to dispel some of the myths/dogma surrounding dietary fat as well.
Prowl
New member
Man, I was just going to search for an answer from old 2004 posts!!...lol
theblitzkrieg
Blitzkrieg
Dietary fats are a very important macronutrient for anyone, let alone bodybuilders. Dietary fat and protein are essential macronutrients meaning the body cannot synthesize them on its own and they must be taken in through your diet. The essential fats, EFA's/omegas are the ones that need to be taken in through diet. Good sources of these fats are certain nuts and seeds like walnuts, olive oil, fish oil, cod oil, flax and flaxseed, salmon, tuna, sardines, and other fatty fish, range free whole eggs, etc. while EFA's are essential this doesn't mean we should skimp out on other sources of fat like saturated fat and monounsaturated fat. These fats are also used by the body for hormonal production, heart health, cholesterol/lipids, And many other biological processes. The only fats that you want to really stay away from are artificial transfats which are solids at room temperature. Natural sources like coconut oil and steak (yes there are transfats in fatty cuts of steak) aren't unhealthy, just their artificial brethren Are. Most places are not using artificial transfats anymore so this isn't a huge issue, just be aware of it.
Fats have an undeserved bad rap carrying over from the 90s after it came out that the primary fate of dietary fat intake was storage in fatty tissue. While this may be true, it's an incomplete and erroneous picture of what really happens in the body and this is why you see low fat/no fat products everywhere at the supermarket. The primary fate of dietary fat is storage as fat but if one is cutting for example and in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat intake is stored but the energy for you to live and go about your daily activities and training must come from somewhere so the body will pull energy from stored fat (provided protein intake remains at or above minimum needs and training is efficient enough to help preserve muscle mass). So why worry about dietary fat being stored when stored fat will be burned for energy bc of the caloric deficit you're in? It makes no sense, especially when you consider that fat is an essential nutrient and helps in many bodily processes. Now if you're in a caloric surplus should you worry about dietary fat intake? Not really bc whether the dietary fat is stored or not, the body is not 100% efficient at building muscle. This means that when you're in a surplus, the body will make some muscle (provided protein intake is sufficent and training is also) and some fat. How much of each is dependent on many factors such as insulin resistance, nutrient partitioning, p-ratio, how efficiently protein synthesis is spiked, etc. but no matter what, whether you take dietary fat or not, while you're in a caloric surplus you will gain some fat. It will either come from dietary fat being stored or if you eliminate fat and increase protein and carbs it will come from de novo lipogensis.
As you can see fats are a very important yet misunderstood macronutrient. People assume that they'll get fat just because of its intake. This is false, you get fat bc you're taking in more calories than you burn. Dietary fat intake doesn't really change while on or off steroids, there are minimum needs that should be met for optimal health. An exception to this would be if you have high cholesterol or lipid issues, heart issues, or another medical condition which would warrant lowering fat intake but the papering should come primarily from saturated fats bc the essential fats (polyunsaturated) and monounsaturated fats will help lower cholesterol and heart health. A good minimum to use when calculating your macros is .4g/lb of BW for dietary fat. You should have a wide variety of fats to meet this minimum and good options include olive oil, fish oil, nuts and seeds, Avacados, whole fat milk and dairy, fatty fish, fatty cuts of steak, flaxseed oil, peanut butter or any nut butter, etc.
The reason a 220lb person, not just bodybuilder, should take more than 50g of fat daily is bc that's .22g/lb of BW which is well below the minimum recommended amount and hormonal production, heart health, inflammation response to training, etc will suffer. Proof that fats aren't the reason ppl become fat is evident in ketone if diets where typically 60+% of a trainees caloric intake comes from dietary fat and there are many many ppl who do keto that are in amazing shape and great health. In closing I'd just like to say that one shouldn't be scared of any macronutrient. Each one serves a purpose for optimal health and training and a well rounded diet comprised of mainly whole and minimally processed foods will serve this purpose. If you want to limit fat gains on a bulk, reduce the level of caloric surplus don't necessarily cut out fats. If you're fat and want to cut fat, you won't accomplish this by cutting fats while still remaining in a caloric surplus. The body is too adapted to survival to be tricked by just cutting fats out, a whole dietary plan is necessary to cut fat, one that incorporates a caloric deficit, meets minimum macro needs, and great training. Don't fall for the misconceptions of the media and general public when it comes to fats, rather educate yourself on diet and nutrition and learn how to incorporate them into your daily diet wisely. Or if you want the lazy but incredibly effective way out, hook up with 3J and he'll customize a diet just for you, one that has plenty of dietary fat
Amazing post!
I've been so deep into the broscience that I still feel guilty when consuming fat. I'm personally concerned about bulking. Wouldn't I be less likely to put on fat when eating very little dietary fat since de novo lipogensis is unlikely to happen in a training healthy individual? - I have absolutely no scientific studies or anything like that to back this up. Just something I've read/heard multiple times.
Any comments on combining carbs and fat? Should you generally avoid consuming large amounts of carbs and fat together? If there's a difference, I'm guessing fatty foods should be left for the evening when you don't consume many carbs?
Sorry for the delayed response. Do NOT feel guilty about eating fat, in reality it's more important than carbs! (Please no one take that statement out of context).
De novo lipogenesis is rare indeed but the primary fate of all dietary fat intake will be storage (aka getting fat). This is a very specific answer though and doesn't taken into account everything else nutrition related. One main factor is total energy balance. In your case you're bulking so you're going to be eating excess calories and gaining fat regardless. How much fat you gain is determined more by the size of your surplus, your nutrient partitioning, p-ratio, insulin sensitivity, leptin sensitivity, etc. The amount of Dietary fat you take in isn't directly proportional to your net fat balance (whether gaining or losing). Let's take a look at a few examples, it might help you conceptualize it better:
Mr Blitzkrieg is on a bulk of a 500calorie/day surplus. He comes up with 2macro plans for his diet.
Option 1: 200g Pro, 400g CHO, 125g Fat.
Option 2: 200g pro, 200g CHO, 214g Fat.
Both diets are isocaloric meaning they have the same amount of calories but one is higher fat and lower carb vs the other is higher carb and lower fat. Common misconception would be option 2 would make Mr Blitzkrieg fatter since it has higher dietary fat. This is a closed view of what's really going on though. Now we know almost all, if not all, dietary fat will be stored. Option 2 would have you storing more fat initially but what happens when you take carbs into the equation? Carbs are the primary source of energy of the body so carbs will be turned to glucose and used to power your daily activities, various bodily tissues, lifting, etc. So in option 1, you store less dietary fat than option 2 but you have much more carbs that have to be metabolized and digested so very little stored fat will be oxidized for energy. In option 2, you store more dietary fat in the beginning BUT since carbs are lower but energy demands are the same (you haven't changed your daily activities at all), you will need to tap into stored fat as an energy source to meet the balance needed. This evens out the playing field at the end of the day. In isocaloric diets, the difference between both options is negligible. One won't make you any fatter than the next so choose whichever one is most convenient to you and whichever one tastes better.
^^^the above is assuming equal TEF (Thermidor effect of food) for all macros. This isn't the case but the difference between carbs and fats isn't that big anyway.
As to combining carbs and fat, there really isn't much of a problem with doing so and can in fact be beneficial. The OCD bodybuilder is obsessed with GI index of foods and simple carbs vs complex carbs. Well fats and protein slow the digestion of meals and carbs specifically so while a meal could be composed of all simple/high GI carbs, dietary fats and/or protein will lower the Glycemic load of the meal and the simple carbs will be absorbed much more slowly thus blunting an insulin spike.
There's not a specific reason for avoiding eating carbs and fats together even in high quantities IF the total calories remains constant. Remember energy balance! You can separate carbs and fats, eat them together, eat less frequent high carb high fat meals, eat more frequent low carb low fat meals, WHATEVER fits your schedule and convenience best so long as the energy balance remains the same.
If anything, fats may be slightly better before bed than carbs. Carbs at night have reduced serum GH levels in some studies but not for fats or protein. This difference in GH levels is NOT something to concern yourself with but if you wanted a reason to eat fats at night and keep carbs during the day, you now have one lol. I personally still eat carbs at night almost everyday, there was statistical significance to the GH drop but not clinical significance.
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