How much HCG works for you while on TRT ?

[Alpin]

Just wanted to ask you guys how much of a dose of HCG works for you while on TRT ?
I've used lower doses like 250 i.u.(2 times a week) and have not seen much in benefit....
My dose is 500 i.u. E3D....
Total for month(30 days) is 5000 i.u.

I've been told by a few on here this is a lot...
but the Doc I go to uses 1200 iu.. per week in the TRT protocol to maintain fertility while on TRT....
Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys use in terms of dosages that keeps your balls from shrinking too much...

I haven't noticed any aches while using this dose from the get go on TRT....
I'm interested to see if 400 i.u. E3D will show much difference.
My goal while on TRT is to maintain maximum testes function and sperm count to some degree....
I always want to keep my reserves of natty T going so the processes don't shut down completely.
I can restart to 500 ng/dl TT after 8 weeks of 1500 iu./week of HCG if discontinuing TRT...
I'm of the opinion that it is not a bad idea entirely to keep the reserves going....who knows we might need to come off sometime from TRT....isn't it best to have something to work with if need be ?
As I understand it CASHOUT used this approach and could restart himself to 800 ng/dl when off TRT...
What do you guys have to say about his ?

 

[Mprtz]

Best info I have seen on this is from this study that Jimi posted in another thread:

http jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/5/2595.full

Upshot (from memory) is that 250iu EOD produced intratesticular Testosterone just below baseline, while 500iu EOD produced intratesticular Test about 25% above. This is in test subjects that were suppressed by 200mg/week of exogenous T.

Check it out- it's not written with the layman in mind, but worth the effort.

 

[Alpin]

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

think I fixed it..

 

[Mprtz]

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

think I fixed it..

Maybe the problem is just on my end... your link shows up as "An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie" on my machine. Links I created looked the same.

 

[synonymous]

My doctor wants me on 5000iu per week. I slipt that into 2 right now. Should I be splitting it more? What are the bad effects of too much hcg?

 

[Alpin]

Maybe the problem is just on my end... your link shows up as "An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie" on my machine. Links I created looked the same.

still works though

 

[Alpin]

My doctor wants me on 5000iu per week. I slipt that into 2 right now. Should I be splitting it more? What are the bad effects of too much hcg?

astronomical my friend!!!
He wants you on this dose as a monotherapy or with your TRT ?
Most pros out there who specialize in restarts use 1000-1500 iu. E3D or E4D
I've only heard of one doc who uses 2500 iu. HCG per shot... EOD for 16 shots in total...
and that is for an HPTA restart.

 

[Mprtz]

astronomical my friend!!!
He wants you on this dose as a monotherapy or with your TRT ?
Most pros out there who specialize in restarts use 1000-1500 iu. E3D or E4D
I've only heard of one doc who uses 2500 iu. HCG per shot... EOD for 16 shots in total...
and that is for an HPTA restart.

One of the conclusions of the linked paper is that the doses that have traditionally been used for male fertility appear unnecessarily high... may just be inertia on the doctors part.

 

[Alpin]

One of the conclusions of the linked paper is that the doses that have traditionally been used for male fertility appear unnecessarily high... may just be inertia on the doctors part.

cut and paste this info if u can plz...

 

[Mprtz]

cut and paste this info if u can plz...

I'm thinking of these two paragraphs and the sentence before them:

"The dose of hCG required to maintain baseline ITT concentrations in men with maximal gonadotropin suppression is significantly lower than that historically used in the treatment of infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

A review of the literature reveals a broad range of relatively high doses of gonadotropin replacement using hCG ranging from 1250 IU three times weekly to 3000 IU twice weekly (29, 30, 31, 32). Even higher doses of hCG (5000 IU, three times per week) have been shown to be safe in experimental models of gonadotropin withdrawal (33, 34). Regimens of 2000 IU administered im two or three times weekly have been used with hCG dose adjustment according to serum T levels with a goal of normal physiological serum T levels (32, 35, 36). This approach is based on the assumption that if normal serum T levels were established by hCG administration, ITT concentrations would be sufficient to support normal spermatogenesis. However, ITT was never directly assessed in these studies. The minimum hCG dose needed to restore ITT to levels sufficient for initiating and maintaining spermatogenesis is not known.

All three hCG groups in this study (125, 250, and 500 IU, given every other day) maintained ITT at levels statistically indistinguishable from baseline. These doses are 10***8211;20% of the doses commonly used in male infertility treatment (1250***8211;2000 IU, two or three times weekly). Endocrinologists and andrologists have been aware that the doses of hCG traditionally used to treat certain types of infertility are supraphysiological and may expose patients to high levels of T and estradiol, with the consequent risk of clinically significant gynecomastia (37). The ability to prescribe hCG doses at lower levels to target normal serum and ITT and normal spermatogenesis would be useful for this patient population."

 

[Alpin]

I see it...
I wonder how E3D fits in to this....

 

[bowhunter01]

Will 250 ius of hcg twice per week along with 80 e5ds of test cyp cause estrogen to rise without a doubt? I was prescribed no ai and am beginning hcg tomorrow.

 

[synonymous]

astronomical my friend!!!
He wants you on this dose as a monotherapy or with your TRT ?
Most pros out there who specialize in restarts use 1000-1500 iu. E3D or E4D
I've only heard of one doc who uses 2500 iu. HCG per shot... EOD for 16 shots in total...
and that is for an HPTA restart.

Part of TRT.

Should I break down the shots even more? What's the recommended protocol? I would save a ton on shots if I can break it down even more.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Hello,

I didn't see anybody mention it but keep in mind that the dose of hCG may be affected by your diagnosis as well. Obviously a patient being primary may need more.

 

[Mprtz]

Hello,

I didn't see anybody mention it but keep in mind that the dose of hCG may be affected by your diagnosis as well. Obviously a patient being primary may need more.

Excellent point. The guys in the study above were chosen to all be very similar. They were all freshly secondary due to exogenous test suppression.
Any primaries want to volunteer to have their nuts speared to measure ITT? Can't be fun, apparently requiring an epidural every time.

 

[willnorthwest]

I have been doing 320iu e4d for the past year. My testes are nice and plump, and my wife is pregnant and due on June 1st.

 

[Alpin]

I have been doing 320iu e4d for the past year. My testes are nice and plump, and my wife is pregnant and due on June 1st.

Where have u been all this time man ?
Good to see you on the boards again.
You used this with your TRT ?
what dose were you on for T ?
was it E3D or E4D ?
I remember us discussing anxiety and the use of these compounds...
Best thing I found to work was break down all the dosages E3D at least.

 

[CageBreed]

200 ius 3 times a week while on 20mgs of test a week

 

[Alpin]

200 ius 3 times a week while on 20mgs of test a week

20 mgs of test a week ?