Megatron28
Moderator
See post #5. Your TT is in the normal range. Not optimal but definitely not hypogonadal.
Low FSH coupled with Low TT is indicative of Secondary Hypogonadism, but you clearly do not have Low T.
Initial blood work. Suggestions & advice appreciated.
- Thread starter Cap'n
- Start date
See post #5. Your TT is in the normal range. Not optimal but definitely not hypogonadal.
Low FSH coupled with Low TT is indicative of Secondary Hypogonadism, but you clearly do not have Low T.
What is your opinion about Clomid and using it to boost my natural level higher? I've started doing some research but haven't come to any conclusions yet.
Megatron28
Moderator
I don't want to go back and read the whole thread again. What symptoms do you have ?
Feeling weak and recovery sucks
Feeling blah, nothing crazy
Reduced libido
No spontaneous erections or in the morning
Can't concentrate/focus
Memory sucks
Slight gyno
Night sweats
Can't fall asleep/can't stay asleep/wake up early
Megatron28
Moderator
You could try clomid or nolva to do this. I don't know how effective it will be though for you. Your LH is already in the upper end of the normal range.
jomamma007
New member
Not sure where you got your info from, but 524ng/dl is pretty close to normal for a man your age. And by the way, was the blood drawn first thing in the morning after a good night's sleep? That makes a big difference.
so free test peaks at 30 years old? and total at 35 ish huh? interesting everyone's always talking about levels of a 25 year old but looks like the early 30's are peaking for free and total...
Alpin
New member
Capn
Look into getting your Bio Avail.Test done before 8 AM after a restful nights sleep. That and your Free T will give a better picture.
You're not hypogonadal but not optimal.
you're normal though...
you might hate that term but its an accurate reflectIon of your hormones.
Estradiol looks good.
Treat that sleep apnea get enough fats, zinc in your diet and see what comes things. Good luck
Look into getting your Bio Avail.Test done before 8 AM after a restful nights sleep. That and your Free T will give a better picture.
You're not hypogonadal but not optimal.
you're normal though...
you might hate that term but its an accurate reflectIon of your hormones.
Estradiol looks good.
Treat that sleep apnea get enough fats, zinc in your diet and see what comes things. Good luck
I decided to give Clomid a run to see the results and they were very positive. Since the last bloods I stopped taking the Clomid and just got blood pulled today due to regressing back to the same type symptoms. My doc is super receptive to the idea of TRT after my experiment and the positive results I had.
I started at 12.5mg per day for a week and then bumped it up to 25mg per day thereafter. During the run my wife had mentioned I'd been much more patient, relaxed and had a much better demeanor. I also noticed my strength shot up quite a bit from the norm, recovery was quicker, I felt more focused and dialed in on an everyday basis.
My mood was really super stable as compared to before. My temper used to go from 1 to 10 in a nano second, and now I stop at each number and it's far more under control, ex. 1, 2, 3, 4... rather than just going from A to Z.
BEGINNING:
3/3/2015
TT 523 (348 - 1197)
LH 6.0 (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH 1.8 (1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL)
Estradiol 22.7 (7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL)
DAY 50 - 5/3/2015:
Testosterone 851 (348 - 1197)
Estradiol 19.9 (7.6 - 42.6)
LH 7.8 (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH 2.5 (1.5 - 12.4)
I started at 12.5mg per day for a week and then bumped it up to 25mg per day thereafter. During the run my wife had mentioned I'd been much more patient, relaxed and had a much better demeanor. I also noticed my strength shot up quite a bit from the norm, recovery was quicker, I felt more focused and dialed in on an everyday basis.
My mood was really super stable as compared to before. My temper used to go from 1 to 10 in a nano second, and now I stop at each number and it's far more under control, ex. 1, 2, 3, 4... rather than just going from A to Z.
BEGINNING:
3/3/2015
TT 523 (348 - 1197)
LH 6.0 (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH 1.8 (1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL)
Estradiol 22.7 (7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL)
DAY 50 - 5/3/2015:
Testosterone 851 (348 - 1197)
Estradiol 19.9 (7.6 - 42.6)
LH 7.8 (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH 2.5 (1.5 - 12.4)
Just got blood pulled today... After a cross country move, and going back to "normal" since the last update, I decided to go see my wife's doc who she has been very happy with. He was extremely receptive to the idea of TRT and said he wouldn't have an issue prescribing it due to the positive results I had on Clomid. I was kind of blown away how great he was about the whole thing.
He offered to give me samples of Androgel so I could try it out for a few weeks for free and see how I liked the results. Would there by any reason to try gel or just go straight to shots if I decide to go the TRT route? He was open to either route I wanted to take and was extremely openminded.
Tests ordered:
CBC
CMP
DHEA
Estradiol
FSH
Lipid panel
LH
Prolactin
SHBG
T4, free
Testosterone Free
Testosterone Total
TSH
Vitamin D
He offered to give me samples of Androgel so I could try it out for a few weeks for free and see how I liked the results. Would there by any reason to try gel or just go straight to shots if I decide to go the TRT route? He was open to either route I wanted to take and was extremely openminded.
Tests ordered:
CBC
CMP
DHEA
Estradiol
FSH
Lipid panel
LH
Prolactin
SHBG
T4, free
Testosterone Free
Testosterone Total
TSH
Vitamin D
Megatron28
Moderator
No. Gels/Creams are typically not recommended for TRT. For example, risk of transfer to your wife or kids if you have any should be a huge concern on your mind. And they typically are less effective and make managing side effects more difficult. They cost much more too.
Alpin
New member
I wouldn't do TRT with levels like u have on clomid...
I would cycle on/off it for as long as it works...then consider TRT if hypogonadal... But you are not hypogonadal...
Your TT went up nicely...and Estradiol did not rise..
That's good.
I would def keep your HPTA working for as long as possible.
You are off clomid now?
U went for labs first thing in morning while on the clomid?
Smart dosing for the clomid...
Many guys start at 12.5 mg ED and bump up to 25 mg ED
I would cycle on/off it for as long as it works...then consider TRT if hypogonadal... But you are not hypogonadal...
Your TT went up nicely...and Estradiol did not rise..
That's good.
I would def keep your HPTA working for as long as possible.
You are off clomid now?
U went for labs first thing in morning while on the clomid?
Smart dosing for the clomid...
Many guys start at 12.5 mg ED and bump up to 25 mg ED
You don't need TRT.
I wish I had the levels you have without Clomid.
However I am curious to see what Clomid does for you, in terms of keeping those 800+ numbers in the long run. Please keep us posted
The biggest downside to the Clomid was my libido crashed and I started to get a bit down in the dumps. The only thing I could attribute that to was the Clomid, unfortunately.
I'm going to wait for this round of bloodwork to come back and look at things harder at that point. Do you treat the symptoms or do you treat "the number?" If one person feels good at 500 and another doesn't why not correct it?
ETA - The other thing I didn't like was having to order stuff from India and going the non-prescription route.
That's a pretty definitive statement. Your statement is contradicted by my doctor, and several other professionals I've spoken to, regarding treating symptoms, rather than being defined by a number.
Megatron28
Moderator
I agree that you don't need TRT. TRT is for treating Hypogonadism which you do not suffer from. Your symptoms are likely due to some other issue.
He's having my TSH and T4 checked this go around so maybe that'll shed some light. I don't know of any other issue.
I had a TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) in 2008 and that's when the problems started to surface. With Clomid, and raised T levels, those issues abated. My doctor thinks the two may be tied together. I'll post my results when I get them and would appreciate further feedback.
Looking at the TT alone doesn't take into account other variables that are indicative of needing testosterone replacement. My free T level has only been measured once and came in at 76.2 pg/mL (46 - 224). After the next round of blood test results I should have a better understanding of my levels. You may find the following interesting:
Mohit Khera, MD "I diagnose TD based on two criteria: low serum total or free T and signs or symptoms of TD. However, I must stress that in my practice, symptoms are the key driver for TTh rather than any specific value for blood test results...
I offer T therapy to symptomatic men with calculated free T less than 6.5 ng/dL (65 pg/mL or 232 pmol/L)."
Michael Zitzmann, MD, PhD "Free T levels below 250 pmol/L (86 pg/mL) are highly suggestive of TD.
Abraham Morgentaler, MD "I find free T more useful than total T as a diagnostic test; however, it is critical to note that reference values provided by laboratories are not clinically based and of little value. Free T concen- trations less than 100 pg/mL or RIA concentra- tions less than 1.5 ng/dL are consistent with TD. Although I use a total T value of less than 350 ng/dL (12 nmol/L) as indicative of TD, if the free T value is low, I consider the total T concentration irrelevant."
Mohit Khera, MD "I diagnose TD based on two criteria: low serum total or free T and signs or symptoms of TD. However, I must stress that in my practice, symptoms are the key driver for TTh rather than any specific value for blood test results...
I offer T therapy to symptomatic men with calculated free T less than 6.5 ng/dL (65 pg/mL or 232 pmol/L)."
Michael Zitzmann, MD, PhD "Free T levels below 250 pmol/L (86 pg/mL) are highly suggestive of TD.
Abraham Morgentaler, MD "I find free T more useful than total T as a diagnostic test; however, it is critical to note that reference values provided by laboratories are not clinically based and of little value. Free T concen- trations less than 100 pg/mL or RIA concentra- tions less than 1.5 ng/dL are consistent with TD. Although I use a total T value of less than 350 ng/dL (12 nmol/L) as indicative of TD, if the free T value is low, I consider the total T concentration irrelevant."
42 year old male. 6' 3" 205 lbs. My blood tests were drawn at 16:00, due to doctor appt., so I believe there may be some lowering of levels due to that. I've read several articles from different doctors stating that men over 40 aren't as affected by the testosterone drop off as younger males. In essence, testing in the morning isn't as important for older guys as the young bucks.
TT 259 (175 - 781 ng/dl)
FT 49 (47 - 244 pg/mL)
SHBG 33 (13 - 90 nmol/L)
Albumin 4.5 (3.5 - 4.6 g/dL)
Estradiol 32 (0 - 52 pg/mL)
Prolactin 9.6 (Males 2.5 - 17.4 ng/mL)
LH 2.3 (Males 1.2 - 10.6 mIU/mL)
FSH 1.3 (Males 0.7 - 10.8 mIU/mL)
DHEA-SO4 134 (95 - 530 ug/dL)
T4 Free 0.92 (0.76 - 1.46 ng/dL)
TSH 1.060 (0.360 - 4.170 mIU/L)
Vit. D25 43 (31 - 100 ng/mL)
Hemoglobin 14.7 (13.5 - 18.0 g/dL)
Hematocrit 46 (41.0 - 53.0 %)
TT 259 (175 - 781 ng/dl)
FT 49 (47 - 244 pg/mL)
SHBG 33 (13 - 90 nmol/L)
Albumin 4.5 (3.5 - 4.6 g/dL)
Estradiol 32 (0 - 52 pg/mL)
Prolactin 9.6 (Males 2.5 - 17.4 ng/mL)
LH 2.3 (Males 1.2 - 10.6 mIU/mL)
FSH 1.3 (Males 0.7 - 10.8 mIU/mL)
DHEA-SO4 134 (95 - 530 ug/dL)
T4 Free 0.92 (0.76 - 1.46 ng/dL)
TSH 1.060 (0.360 - 4.170 mIU/L)
Vit. D25 43 (31 - 100 ng/mL)
Hemoglobin 14.7 (13.5 - 18.0 g/dL)
Hematocrit 46 (41.0 - 53.0 %)
Megatron28
Moderator
Secondary Hypogonadism. I would recheck your levels first thing in the morning to confirm the results.
I'm having blood done at the VA tomorrow for an annual physical. Only thing related to this, I believe, will be TT. But it should confirm the low TT and I'll go from there.
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