Injecting long esters everyday -- By warriorwithin

[syko]

Posted by Warriorwithin @ www.unitedbodybuilding.com
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am writing this but cannot take credit for it. This line of reasoning was pointed out to me by a bro who wishes to now remain anonymous.

GG and Superduty got me thinking tho so I'd thought I'd try to explain it.

The goal of injecting steriods is to increase blood levels of testosterone much higher than can be achieved normally. One of our criteria in doing this is to keep blood levels as stable as possible throughout cycle to provide the best environment for growth and to avoid as many sides as possible. I believe many side effects are caused by the spikes and dips created by once or twice a week injections, even using long esters. A way to reduce these sides would be to use a proper half life to determine when to inject or more importantly how much to frontload with.

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PubMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

That difference is because esters decay at a logarithmic rate, meaning the more esterified hormone in the injection depot, the more is released. This release rate slows as the amount of esterified hormone in the depot is reduced over time.
The general rule is about 0.7 X the number of carbons atoms in a linear ester . However when the body builder needs to keep in mind is that the majority of the esterified hormone is released, regardless of the ester, with the first 24hrs of injection because of the logarithmic rate of decay.


What does this mean in simple terms?
I'll useTestosterone Enthante in an 8 week cycle as an example:

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
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Enthanate Clearance 500 mg

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Now let's look at 1 shot of test enthanate of 500mg taken on day one.

It will take 8 weeks to clear(assuming a 5 day 1/2 life)

DAY Injected 500 mg(level)

1 500
2 475
3 414
4 360
5 313
6 273
7 238
8 207
9 180
10 157
11 136
12 119
13 103
14 90

and so- on until week 9 when it reaches 0.

Enthanate injected E3D at 250 mg-levels

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NOw lets look at Injections of Test Enthanate every 4 days with 250 mg.
Blood levels are all over the place and create many dips and spikes.
Not a prime anabolic environment. It takes 7 days and 3 injections to even get to 500 mg(498) adn then continues to dip and spike the 500 mark until week 4 but then the spikes are over 600 mg. This daily flucuation cannot be good for combating sides or keeping steady growth rate.
The other way to look at it is $$$$. 500 ed levels would be more economical. You'd gain more.
I wonder if the 2 grams a week guys would do better on 1 gram injected every day vs 3x a week.


DAY INJECT TOTAL

1 250 238
2 0 207
3 0 180
4 250 394
5 0 343
6 0 299
7 250 498
8 0 433
9 0 377
10 250 566
11 0 493
12 0 429
13 250 611
14 0 532
15 0 463
16 250 640
17 0 558
18 0 485
19 250 660
20 0 575
21 0 500
22 250 673
23 0 586
24 0 510
25 250 681
26 0 593
27 0 518
28 250 687
29 0 598
30 0 521

and so on.

I used this web calc for these figures.

http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/

 

[Toemonster]

At what level of decay does side effects happen? You are assuming any flucuations in levels will cause side effects. I have known several bros who do once a wk shots and never have any sides.

 

[Bimmer]

iv always thought about this but couldnt understand it, this helps. This can also be applied to shorter esters such as prop, say injecting twice a day or whatever amount of hours to keep the levels stable

 

[Tyler Durdin]

This is a great post. I am planning my first cycle for March. It will be 500mg of test enanthate per week for 8-12 weeks (not sure yet). I was looking at something like this to help reduce sides because I'm already prone to acne. I'd much rather inject daily and have a great cycle than inject twice a week, as most do with long estered steroids, and have a bad experience. Thanks.

 

[syko]

Toemonster...everyone reacts to steroids differently. so sides may not be as prone to your buddys that inject once a week.

I actually am trying to figure out how this will work with suspensions...

 

[willieman]

nice

 

[JollyJuicer]

very interesting post, while I am no doctor by any means, it seems to make really good sense

 

[pullinbig]

2xw is fine for long ester gear. the hald life on test enan is well more than 5 days. its dbl that.

 

[GymLift]

Obviously, injecting every day will give more stable serum testosterone levels than injecting every week.

Many HRT patients can literally sense when their serum testosterone levels have dropped too low. This usually happens after 5-7 days. I can see some benefit to injecting twice per week (especially if hCG isn't being used), but beyond that is, IMHO, very much unnecessary.

AAS users' serum testosterone remain at supraphysiological levels during the entire cycle. That isn't to say that there isn't benefit to maintaining stable testosterone levels, but the experience of many, many Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users has shown the weekly dosing is probably adequate. In fact, and if I'm not mistaken, the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) community figured out that weekly dosing was best long before the HRT community figured out same. Hell, physicians are still prescribing testosterone cypionate every 2-4 weeks.

In summary, it seems resonable to do those injections twice/week if you feel like that is best, but to do testosterone (cypionate, enanthate) every damn day is way overboard.

 

[GymLift]

2xw is fine for long ester gear. the hald life on test enan is well more than 5 days. its dbl that.

pullinbig: I know that there is information all over the Internet that says the half-life for testosterone enanthate is 10 days. However, blood tests from countless testosterone cypionate (just slightly different than enanthate) indicates that the half-life of testosterone cypionate is 5-7 days.

Check out this PDF and look at the chart on serum testosterone levels after administration of testosterone enanthate. The data behind that chart is real blood tests, and it helps to confirm my assertion that the half-life of testosterone enanthate is 5-7 days as well.

 

[Insane_Man]

Toemonster...everyone reacts to steroids differently. so sides may not be as prone to your buddys that inject once a week.

I actually am trying to figure out how this will work with suspensions...

Inject every 5 (five) mins.

 

[Tyler Durdin]

Inject every 5 (five) mins.

Hmmm...This seems a bit excessive, but like they say "no pain, no gain".

 

[GymLift]

Inject every 5 (five) mins.

Seems like serum testosterone levels might not be perfectly stable when injecting every five minutes, so I'm going to have to recommend an IV drip.

 

[Johny J]

injecting evey day. Awesome. As if you dont feel like a enough of a pin cushion.

 

[syko]

meh ive done suspension before...its no biggie

 

[pullinbig]

pullinbig: I know that there is information all over the Internet that says the half-life for testosterone enanthate is 10 days. However, blood tests from countless testosterone cypionate (just slightly different than enanthate) indicates that the half-life of testosterone cypionate is 5-7 days.

Check out this PDF and look at the chart on serum testosterone levels after administration of testosterone enanthate. The data behind that chart is real blood tests, and it helps to confirm my assertion that the half-life of testosterone enanthate is 5-7 days as well.

your exactly right. depends on what you read. thats why i dont put a lot of stock in studies. =0) i just know from long term usage what works and what dont. long ester gear works wonders 2xw. after several weeks the blood levels are going to be constant anyway at 2xw. i also think 8 weeks of long ester is too short. it dont even start showing in the gym til about a month in. but thats me and everyone is different. long ester rules.

 

[DADAWG]

your exactly right. depends on what you read. thats why i dont put a lot of stock in studies. =0) i just know from long term usage what works and what dont. long ester gear works wonders 2xw. after several weeks the blood levels are going to be constant anyway at 2xw. i also think 8 weeks of long ester is too short. it dont even start showing in the gym til about a month in. but thats me and everyone is different. long ester rules.

ive got to agree with PB on this one even useing the example above [ 250 mg e4d]theres not that much variance after the test gets in your system [ around 150 mg before the next inject ] and countless people have used long ester gear doing only 2x a week , many only injecting only once a week with excellant real world results and i also agree that long ester gear like eth,cyp,eq,deca,etc. should be run a minimum of 10-12 weeks .
all that being said im sure there would be some advantage to daily injects but there comes a time when enough is enough , hell there would be an advantage to eating a small meal every hour or even half hour to equalize blood sugar and protein levels but 4-5 meals a day serves most of us well .
so in summary your probably right at least to some degree but im still not chengeing lol . but its a good post and fuel for a good debate .

 

[blackbeard]

ive got to agree with PB on this one even useing the example above [ 250 mg e4d]theres not that much variance after the test gets in your system [ around 150 mg before the next inject ] and countless people have used long ester gear doing only 2x a week , many only injecting only once a week with excellant real world results and i also agree that long ester gear like eth,cyp,eq,deca,etc. should be run a minimum of 10-12 weeks .
all that being said im sure there would be some advantage to daily injects but there comes a time when enough is enough , hell there would be an advantage to eating a small meal every hour or even half hour to equalize blood sugar and protein levels but 4-5 meals a day serves most of us well .
so in summary your probably right at least to some degree but im still not chengeing lol . but its a good post and fuel for a good debate .

good points..
while prolly very valid.. numbers can be put through a regression analysis to support your hypothesis..what that means i can come up with a conclusion first then fit the numbers into a model so that they work out to support my theory rather than working the other way around..

research is great to read but remember a lot of these guys conducting these reserach projects are math geniuses and the method of how they arrived at their conclusion needs to be studied just as hard as the results