Is Intermittent Testosterone Dosing Bad for You? If so, Why?

[RoidBurger]

Can someone give me some solid science on this?

(studies, facts, statistics, charts, data, etc)

Explaining why someone with slightly low natural production of Testosterone (around 400) taking Androgel (or even injections) in an intermittent dosing fashion (a week on, week off) would be a bad thing?

Someone who still naturally hovers around 410 still has some power in that HPA machine, and its still chugging away, albeit sluggishly. Rather than completely kill that, why couldn't they mimick the natural hormone cycle and "supplement" it in a cyclical, intermittent fashion to keep receptors sensitive, keep HPA running, and also enjoy that initial "burst" of both exo and endo testosterone we all get in the first week or two?

The goal here is to avoid the intial burst, followed by the months and years of crap libido and vitality that comes with shutting down the HPA. (Im aware of taking HCG also so lets avoid that discussion if possible).

Please note: I am not looking for opinions.

Can this be the first thread on this topic where actual data is used to back up opinions? I've read tons of threads on this and its always a big gathering of subjective speculating. I am aware of the pervading theory that one must always maintain a consistent dosing schedule. But I have not heard any actual data why this methodology is dangerous or damaging to your health.

I am seriously considering it, because hormones cycle monthly in a natural state for both men and women. No doubt HPA shuts down and starts up even in a natural state, to some extent. Why would duplicating that environment be dangerous for you?

Thanks

 

[Megatron28]

Taking exogenous testosterone does not "supplement" your endogenous (natural) testosterone production. Your HPTA senses that it has enough from the exogenous so it stops making it own. You will be shut down and 100% reliant on exogenous testosterone.

Intermittently dosing as you suggest would not give your HPTA enough time to "turn back on". So you would have depressed TT levels during the periods where you do not take exogenous testosterone.

 

[Roush]

^^ exactly . HPTA shut down and recovery is 'binary', that means it is either ON or OFF , like a light switch, there is no 'in between' . If your using androgel or any other form of exogenous testosterone, then your natty test is shut down. Your completely reliant at that stage on exogenous test,, you can't supplement with it or 'add to' your own production.

 

[Megatron28]

Look at what happens to LH for each of the given exogenous testosterone doses in the attached.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab


Here is the full study.

AJPENDO : Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab

 

[RoidBurger]

Megatron - you seem to have ignored the entire premise of my post: "Taking lower doses of ANdrogel for very short periods of time"

There is a very specific reason I phrased it that way. At no point did I refer to an Androgel regimen that is ongoing. And I explained in detail why I wasn't referring to that.

Nevertheless you responded with:

Taking exogenous testosterone does not "supplement" your endogenous (natural) testosterone production.

It does exactly that. It adds testosterone to the existing testosterone currently flowing in your bloodstream.

Your HPTA senses that it has enough from the exogenous so it stops making it own.

This does not happen instantaneously. This is why I said intermittant, for periods of 1 week.

You will be shut down and 100% reliant on exogenous testosterone.

You will not be 100% shut down if you take Androgel for 7 days. In fact, data shows that people don't shut down 100% even when taking smaller doses of androgel for prolonged periods of time.

Intermittently dosing as you suggest would not give your HPTA enough time to "turn back on".

Exactly how long does it take for the HPTA to turn back on if someone has micro-dosed Androgel for only 7 days? This is exactly why I said "no opinions" and requested "studies, facts, and data". Every time I start a thread like this I get bombarded with opinions instead of data, and those opinions are smattered with wrong information.

So you would have depressed TT levels during the periods where you do not take exogenous testosterone.
The entire point of my post is that you WOULDNT take it long enough for this to happen. That was literally the whole point of my question. None of what you say happens immediately, and that was why I posed the question in the first place.

Is there anyone out there with data or studies that can respond to this question please? I explicitly said "NO OPINIONS" for a reason. And now you see why.

 

[RoidBurger]

Megatron - you seem to have ignored the entire premise of my post: "Taking lower doses of Androgel for very short periods of time"

There is a very specific reason I phrased it that way.

At no point did I refer to an Androgel regimen that is ongoing.

I explained in detail why I wasn't referring to that: "enjoy that initial "burst" of both exo and endo testosterone we all get in the first week or two?"

This references the time period of 3 to 10 days where both exo and endo testosterone are flowing in your system.
The time period when your HPTA has *NOT* shut down yet.
I deliberately made this very clear.

Nevertheless you responded with:

Taking exogenous testosterone does not "supplement" your endogenous (natural) testosterone production.

It does exactly that - for a period of time. It takes time for your HPTA to shut down. This does not happen "immediately". This is exactly why people who start testosterone therapy have a period of euphoria and heightened libido. They are both producting natural testosterone and supplementing it. This is prior to the HPTA shutting down. I explained all this in my first post above, but it seems it was ignored

Your HPTA senses that it has enough from the exogenous so it stops making it own.

This does not happen instantaneously. This is why I said intermittent dosing, instead of ongoing. The entire point of my question was to raise the issue of only supplementing long enough to boost your levels, and NOT long enough to shut down your HPTA.

You will be shut down and 100% reliant on exogenous testosterone.

You will not be 100% shut down if you take Androgel for 7 days. In fact, data shows that people don't shut down 100% even when taking smaller doses of androgel for prolonged periods of time.

Intermittently dosing as you suggest would not give your HPTA enough time to "turn back on".
If you don't dose long enough to shut it down in the first place, then this isn't an issue. Again I feel like I am still rewriting my first post, and not actually getting my specific question addressed.

So you would have depressed TT levels during the periods where you do not take exogenous testosterone.

The entire point of my post is that you wouldn't take it long enough for this to happen.
That was literally the whole point of my question.
None of what you say happens immediately.

Maybe I did not phrase my question in a manner that was understandable.
But I am looking for data explaining the sentiment that you absolutely must take consistent doses of Testosterone or you risk damaging your health in some fashion. This is the pervading sentiment, and I have seen no information backing it, so I wanted to challenge it a bit.

-RB-

 

[RoidBurger]

Look at what happens to LH for each of the given exogenous testosterone doses in the attached.

This is over a period of 16 weeks, so it is completely unrelated to the question I am asking.

 

[RoidBurger]

A relevant comment from another thread:

"Take 250mg of testosterone enanthate once weekly and within 2-3wks your natural LH production at the pituitary has stopped. This is why i recommend starting HCG at wk 2-3. However the signalling (GnRH) from the hypothalmus is still present for up to 5wks. This is why short 4-6wk cycles cause very little shutdown and are easy to recover from, the signalling isn't suppressed or if it has, it's only been for a week or two."

And these are guys injecting sizeable doses. I was only talking about small Androgel doses for 7 days.

 

[Megatron28]

Give it a try then. Get blood work and let us know how much it changes your baseline TT, LH and FSH levels by. Good luck!

I don't believe you used the phrase "micro dosing" in your original post. Did I just miss that? Or was I supposed to read your mind? Regardless, what do you consider a "micro" dose to be?

Also, I didn't see your studies supporting your hypothesis that intermittent micro-dosing will result in higher Total Testosterone levels and unsuppressed LH/FSH. Please post. Thanks!

 

[IMT staff]

In this situation why are we even talking about TT numbers? We should be talking about FT, DHT and E2 ratios.

 

[halfwit]

A relevant comment from another thread:

"Take 250mg of testosterone enanthate once weekly and within 2-3wks your natural LH production at the pituitary has stopped. This is why i recommend starting HCG at wk 2-3. However the signalling (GnRH) from the hypothalmus is still present for up to 5wks. This is why short 4-6wk cycles cause very little shutdown and are easy to recover from, the signalling isn't suppressed or if it has, it's only been for a week or two."

And these are guys injecting sizeable doses. I was only talking about small Androgel doses for 7 days.

Uhhh, you want studies and fact - then drop bro-science as a retort? What exactly do you think GNRH does? If LH has ceased, which is driven by GNRH - you're contradictiing yourself as a cessation of LH would indicate that GNRH is no longer part of the equation.

No. Exogenous hormones do NOT stack in men. Are you female? Then you would have a valid argument as they do not shut off like we do.

I'm going to have to agree, please try it and post back some results. You'll find that your query was responded to quite accurately, as ANYONE that has been on TRT can attest to.

 

[Jimstigator]

Uhhh, you want studies and fact - then drop bro-science as a retort? What exactly do you think GNRH does? If LH has ceased, which is driven by GNRH - you're contradictiing yourself as a cessation of LH would indicate that GNRH is no longer part of the equation.

No. Exogenous hormones do NOT stack in men. Are you female? Then you would have a valid argument as they do not shut off like we do.

I'm going to have to agree, please try it and post back some results. You'll find that your query was responded to quite accurately, as ANYONE that has been on TRT can attest to.

Lol. I thought the same thing. The roidburguler reeks of bro-science but wants studies. Roidburguler - if you try it, come back and let us know so we have a single-bro study to reference for the next guy who swings through reinventing TRT.

-Jim

 

[Gossamer]

roidburger wrote:

Explaining why someone with slightly low natural production of Testosterone (around 400) taking Androgel (or even injections) in an intermittent dosing fashion (a week on, week off) would be a bad thing?

Take my response however you want, or just ignore it altogether because I'm not posting any charts...
At the very least, using test in a 1week on, 1week off regimen, will make your hormone levels fluctuate quite a bit. IOW, you'll feel like shit most of the time.

And to me, feeling like shit is a bad thing.