Is this good first'n'mild cycle for non-strenght athlete sensitive to hairloss?

[mad4cze]

Is this good mild cycle for athlete gaining strenght'n'size sensitive to hairloss?

I am 31 yrs old alpinist with ~4 yrs of lifting - 2yrs dedicated (gained 20lb of quality, 50% strenght), 7+ yrs of nutrition and training exp. I am 6' 170lb ~12%bf (30" waist 6.5" wrists !!!), currently after successful 5+ months of recomp/cut, 99% clean diet. Only sleeping isnt maxed out.

I need 5-10lb of quality gainz (some water+glyc included), cut 5-10lb of fat, progress 10%+ on lifts during next 5 months before i have to back to my previous endurance training and only do strenght/size maintanance (2-3 a week).

Currently between II - III mbp, natty it would stay this way for more 2-4yrs, wanna keep it that way, speed it a little at worst.

Prone to acne, but its hygiene+food+bacteria induced from what i learnt from keeping it at bay.

Kinda low T, 400+ish when sleeping 6-7h, 600-800 when everything perfect.

Planning to go for trt level cruise for life and 6-8weeks blast a year (dry/strenght compounds for strenght offseason cycle) at 35-40yrs.

Strenght coach suggested 6w 30mg winstrol only without PCT (hardcore russian beast), i dont like it and classic T cycle wont do it for me too, but i know i need something... So i figured low anavar + trt level Tprop for 6w cycle (hcg + t subcutaneously, 40mg var a day, <100mg T a week).

Details at pic:

View attachment 565634

I would love to get my plan critiqued or tweaked out by you guys, since you are clearly best source availaible! I tried to research on my own, but for every A i found guys saying B and other C..

1. Is there anything i can do for hairloss prevention except Nizoral? Fina/duda sounds too risky and lot of sources are saying it doesnt work properly for orals anyway..
3. Is there anything i can do to prevent possible acne, except keeping my regimen (2x a day cleanser, "treatment", moist) and using it for upperbody too (? .. now just face), maybe add mild local antibiotic+zinc treatment?
5. Is my pct enough or i need to up doses and lenght as for basic first T cycle?
7. Do i need AI (arimidex 0.25mg a week?) even when using non aromatising compound and "natty" doses of aromatising one for 8 weeks?
9. Is my after cycle timing of blood work and dexa on point?
11. Is one week of Tprop loading enough, or should i do two? I know T ent takes up to 4 weeks to fully kick in, couldnt find clear answer for prop.

 

[49ER]

You are super skinny why would you est super clean and use winny? You need to eat more if you wanna put on muscle with any aas

 

[mad4cze]

Not really. I mean from your pov yes. Currently have that fight club look with thicker back.

I started weighting 138lb when i could deadlift 275lb, pullup 70lb two years ago.. T fucked up to two hundred something from fastpacking ultra distances in mountains for fun, low micros and not eating enough carbs (fat fueling works better for endurance).

Eating more isnt problem, can do up to 4500kcal a day, yes counted. Presently i can gain like 1lb of muscle with fast bulk for two months at best, which i cant do because i have 5 months + 12%bf and cutting during shitload of training, half endurance would make me lose more than i gain with bulk. Strengh goes up snail pace unless i do something like 5/3/1 which would slow gainz even more.

I understand his reasoning. Build new muscle cells which we cant use later, drop little fat, gain strenght and break trough plateau and get mental strenght for later progress. I saw result of his coaching on multiple competetive bodybuilders and powerlifter. He has just crazy hardcore attitude (which didnt have fallout yet afaik). And i dont want to risk playing russian roullete with my health + assured hair loss from winny so i am trying to mimic those effects safer.

 

[soldier74]

You are super skinny why would you est super clean and use winny? You need to eat more if you wanna put on muscle with any aas

Agreed. Eat.

 

[oldmusclemike]

you need to study the steroid profiles more. Winstrol is a low anabolic. Winstrol is used to finish off when you have built the mass you have. You want more mass then don't use Winstrol.

Please do more research as to how the compounds work synergistically.

 

[Roush]

your goals are all contradictory to each other , your just going to be spinning your wheels and go no where.

- you say you want to gain strength - this require low low rep heavy weight (and a calorie surplus)

- you say you want to gain muscle mass (hypertrophy) - this requires heavy weight moderate reps lots of volume (and a calorie surplus)

- you say you want to loose 10 pound of body fat - this requires you to be in a constant calorie deficit where both your muscle mass and strength will go down, your MRV will go way down and you won't be able to train for strength and size.

how in the hell do you think you could ever get bigger and stronger loosing 10 pounds of body fat !! dude your only 170 pounds and 12% bf now , so you only have like 20 pounds of body fat TOTAL on you already , and you want to loose up to half of that, while trying to get bigger and stronger . impossible .


body building , body composition, and strength does now work in the way that you assume it does . you need to pick ONE GOAL , and stick with that one goal and develop and meso cyle , training cycle, around that one goal for a period of time.

example:
- if strength is your goal, you need to have a 4 month training block dedicated to strength training and a calorie surplus diet to aide in the strength and recovery (heck you should put on body fat and water weight at this point if strength is your real goal)

- if loosing body fat is your real goal, then dedicate a training block for a fat loss program, a calorie restarted diet , cardio , etc.. in which you will loose BF but your muscle size and strength will go down. but the goal of BF loss will be accomplished..

^^ you can't do both these things in one training cycle. pick one or the other. if Hypertrophy is your main goal, then develop a training block dedicated to adding muscle size. in such a program , if its done correctly , both BF% lowering and strength gains will be a non-issue.


you could do all of your above goals, sure , but over a period of maybe a YEAR . NOT in one training cycle . example you could hypertrophy train for 4 months , then you could strength train for 4 months , then after you've add the size and strength you want , then you can cut and lower BF% for a 4 month phase . that would take a year .

but you sure as hell can't do it all at once , or all on one single steroid cycle.



pick ONE GOAL and focus on that for 4 month training cycle . once we all know that one goal, we would be way better equipped to help you develop a steroid cycle to best serve that one goal and purpose

 

[mad4cze]

you need to study the steroid profiles more. Winstrol is a low anabolic. Winstrol is used to finish off when you have built the mass you have. You want more mass then don't use Winstrol.

Please do more research as to how the compounds work synergistically.

In my region its pretty much used by athletes for same reason i want to afaik, to make finish of strenght cycle more effective, mine was/is 2 years long instead of 2-3months, since i burned myself down to bonybro. People just have oldtimer attitude to juicing, nobody uses hcg, etc.

I know what will T ent 500mg a week do to me. I saw it more than once. There is reason athlete dont do wet compounds, though i am sure i would love it weigh lifting was my priority or i had year before getting back.

Mass isnt my top priority, 10lb is max i cant allow myself to gain now - with 5lb i will be content. I am sure i could do 5 with just trt T levels alone..

Strenght is priority.

Leaning out is least priority, but would make maintaining muscles and strenght later easier.

 

[mad4cze]

Take those 10lb as dream number. I can afford gain 10lb max, 5lb of those i saw winstrol give guys will make me happy.
Just doubling up my T levels for two months should do that. Same with fat, unless i go to very high calorie surplus and eat clean some will shed, maybe 2, maybe 5.

I know i could do 5lbs in a year, 10lbs in a two without aas. I dont have two years. I have 5 months, propably can stretch it to 6-7 if i am on aas and respond well since i could sneak in some other training. Its my base for, so i want make best of it.


I have one of top ten bbers at my country as trainer.. what we do is micro (?) cycles, it works much better for me. Strenght is primary goal, its what we focus on.

 

[harveus]

Not really. I mean from your pov yes. Currently have that fight club look with thicker back.

I started weighting 138lb when i could deadlift 275lb, pullup 70lb two years ago.. T fucked up to two hundred something from fastpacking ultra distances in mountains for fun, low micros and not eating enough carbs (fat fueling works better for endurance).

Eating more isnt problem, can do up to 4500kcal a day, yes counted. Presently i can gain like 1lb of muscle with fast bulk for two months at best, which i cant do because i have 5 months + 12%bf and cutting during shitload of training, half endurance would make me lose more than i gain with bulk. Strengh goes up snail pace unless i do something like 5/3/1 which would slow gainz even more.

I understand his reasoning. Build new muscle cells which we cant use later, drop little fat, gain strenght and break trough plateau and get mental strenght for later progress. I saw result of his coaching on multiple competetive bodybuilders and powerlifter. He has just crazy hardcore attitude (which didnt have fallout yet afaik). And i dont want to risk playing russian roullete with my health + assured hair loss from winny so i am trying to mimic those effects safer.

dude sorry but it's a simply matter of math. i am as tall as you and weight over 20 libs more, at 8%, and I AM fucking skinny. at 6,0 170lbs and 12% bf, no offence, but you have a girl body. i don't think you should do any cycle at all if it's not pure bulking paired with a high caloric intake diet, let alone taking cutting and hardening compunds and stims. it makes no sense in your situation, unless you wan't to be anorexic

 

[mad4cze]

View attachment 565637

This is me 10lb less than now while being fattest (i would guess 20%+).. angles and shit but anyway

You dont count for proportions. How is your waist? Take tape and make circle from 30"... How long are your arms and legs compared to torso? For front squat rack i have my wrist 10cm+ from shoulders while choking myself, for low bar squat under paralel i have my nips inch from thighs (no exagerration).. My deadlift is 1rm is over 400lb while backsquat 320lb

I am not and cant be big, serious ottermode tops, my main game is 12k+ of elevation gain a day with backpack in terrain that consist mostly box stepups while getting 3/4 of oxygen from air.


My apology from explain myself wrong, my english sucks a bit.

I need to get more strenght and some muscle weight that goes with that, ideally but not necessarily loosing few pounds of fat would be great. In time frame i can dedicate to it, its not possible natty..

 

[harveus]

View attachment 565637

This is me 10lb less than now while being fattest (i would guess 20%+).. angles and shit but anyway

You dont count for proportions. How is your waist? Take tape and make circle from 30"... How long are your arms and legs compared to torso? For front squat rack i have my wrist 10cm+ from shoulders while choking myself, for low bar squat under paralel i have my nips inch from thighs (no exagerration).. My deadlift is 1rm is over 400lb while backsquat 320lb

I am not and cant be big, serious ottermode tops, my main game is 12k+ of elevation gain a day with backpack in terrain that consist mostly box stepups while getting 3/4 of oxygen from air.


My apology from explain myself wrong, my english sucks a bit.

I need to get more strenght and some muscle weight that goes with that, ideally but not necessarily loosing few pounds of fat would be great. In time frame i can dedicate to it, its not possible natty..

the best drug you can take for PURE strenght ( almost ONLY strenght ) that will have very little impact on you hair, while simultaniusley shedding fat ( if diet is dialed in ) a good amount of fat too, is anavar.

followed by primo ( with less increase in strenght,less fat shedding, and slighlty more hair loss problems BUT with the possibility of adding, slowly but surely, up to 10 libs of muscle, if diet is only slighlty below mantainace OR at mantainnace level.)

You COULD try to using tren, becouse technically that's also something that wil give you strenght ( and size too, for that matter ) while at the same time making you shed fat quicly but hiarloss WILL increase quickly. that said i advise you against the use of tren if you are not an experienced user anyway beocuse it's very harsh with all kind of sides.

and regarding anavar using it ( with a base of test ) to shed all your fat while keeping all your muscle ( but surely not increasing 10lbs of pure muscle) considering we have similar stats and you have almost the same goal i had the first time i used it, it coudl take up to 12 weeks at moderate to high doeses, wich considering the drug we are talking about can be quite costly.

winstrol only tough? not a chance,at that dose. it CAN make you loose weight ( pound or pound less than anavar,primo or especially tren ) but you will gain very little strenght and mass at that dose,if any. either you up the dose or use it with something else if you are firm on using winny.

( but for this you should ask more experienced users than me ) i have not tested many compounds yet. Primo + winny is agood comination for lean gains tough. you could try it after you have shed all the excessive fat

 

[Milton]

dude sorry but it's a simply matter of math. i am as tall as you and weight over 20 libs more, at 8%, and I AM fucking skinny. at 6,0 170lbs and 12% bf, no offence, but you have a girl body.

Id like to have a girls body too.......in bed lol but OP really needs to address and then attack his own diet to beef up.

 

[mad4cze]

Not sure if you read all my replied.. dont blame if you havent

I know i can beef up (i gained over 30lb during my first 6 month dirty bulk), i know i am 10lb+ of muscles from my (!) natty potentional and 20lb from max potentional with this frame.

I know i can up my lift for 10%+ with 5/3/1 training style in 5 months.

I know how to get there natty, with supervision or without.

I cant do it in 5 months time frame.
I can get close to it with dirty bulk, but its not an option since i cant fatten up more than couple pounds. With slow bulk i wont get even those 5lb.
Powerlifting strenght style training will give me strenght i want, but i will lose most of it when i stop this style of training or add endurance into mix (compared to highvolume moderate2heavy weights where its "set in stone"), happened to me year ago, so not an option.

All above combined with fact i dont have to be worry about vasting my receptors, since i wont be seriously bodybuilding or powerlifting, am old enough, 99% healthy, 100% disciplined with my food, able and dedicated to train hard enough, i dont see reason why not to do mild cycle.

Coach wouldnt suggest otherwise, he is more conservative then you guys here. You have to be over 25yrs + 5yrs of training under him, or over 30 and 3+yrs traning, and preparing for meet or contest otherwise he refuses to talk about it even theoretically, actually he got me so surprised i though i overheard him.

 

[mad4cze]

Thank you, this kind of info i hoped for..

I looked those compounds again, primo sounds better and tren looks like dream drug, though it bit of hardcore for beginner cycle.. and i wouldnt be able to pull even buzzcut after this from what i read.

Winnie isnt option too. Although i saw good results personally couple times, read some experience from old timers saying the same, but i understand its propably just well responders.

So it really lefts me at anavar + test base.

How did your ana + test base cycle and pct looked like?

Do you think upping dose from 40 to 50 ana and stretching it to 8w from 6w (if body takes it well) would make notable difference, apropo 100mg T/w to let say 150mg (dont wanna get to supraphysiological with T since i wouldnt want to go off)? Not a rich guy, but can afford stretching or upping ana, just trying to make it mild as possible while getting some results.

 

[Roush]

if your wanting to gain strength and 'beef up' some size, and your planning on running test as a base anyways .. then just go right in and run the Test full bore . Testosterone is king . Especially for beginner cycles (i.e. first 5 cycles).

Test Prop - front loaded 150mg EOD - first 4 weeks
Test E - 600 mg a week - 8 weeks
Var - 70 mg daily 8 weeks

^^ very very simple short basic cycle, but effective for strength and size (without going too much bloat and powerlifting strength,, you can still stay dry and lean). Run an AI from day one to keep estrogen and water bloat in check.
note: i don't normally recommend short 8 week cycles with Test E ,, but if your front loading it with Test Propianate then it is fine. and you don't want to run Var longer then 8 weeks anyhow


if you decide you want to run a very low dose of Test , like a trt dose, to keep side effects to a minimum ,, then don't expect great gains when running a secondary compound that is a weak compound and expect that compound to do all the work .

example . low test , high VAR . the var is not anabolic enough for men to outshine testosterone . high test high var is more effective for strength and size (low test with var is fine for a cut).

however , low trt doses of test work fine when your running fairly anabolic and synergetic secondary compounds . like low test , with high Tren and Mast , or low test with dbol and deca.

my 2 cents I'm still unsure what your exact goal is in this training block , so its hard to give specific advice

 

[harveus]

go with what roush said. i did basically the same only with anvar to 50 for the first 8 weeks to 80 for the last 4, and sustanon only as a base and at a lower dose ( 250 ) instead of prop and E for 12 weeks.

but what roush said will cost you less, and also test E will be out of your system faster than sust, see how you like the resoults and make us know

 

[mad4cze]

Thanks guys. It makes more sense now.

I have one more question though.

Talked to coach, he said its better idea (var+T) if i dont mind pinning and paying multiple, but i should definetely start at 30mg anavar a day tops, maybe add more after week or two if it goes well, since even 30mg of ana he can get is a lot for him (220+lb stage weight).. I live in small european country where gear is kinda tolerated and i know pharma hgh is fairly easily obtained in these circles, so i guess his anavar is pharma grade too?

 

[harveus]

Thanks guys. It makes more sense now.

I have one more question though.

Talked to coach, he said its better idea (var+T) if i dont mind pinning and paying multiple, but i should definetely start at 30mg anavar a day tops, maybe add more after week or two if it goes well, since even 30mg of ana he can get is a lot for him (220+lb stage weight).. I live in small european country where gear is kinda tolerated and i know pharma hgh is fairly easily obtained in these circles, so i guess his anavar is pharma grade too?

we cannot know for sure if your gear ( especially anavar ) is pharm grade. i know for sure MINE was, i live in europe too, so maybe post a pic of what you get and if it's the same as mine, i can make an assumption.

about the dose, yes play it safe if it's the first time you use it, it's really mild as a compound but after all you don't know how you will reac so it's a good advise. this is a golden rule for all new compounds actually,when you first use them.

BUT the raccomended dose for your golas in that time frame is definatly between 50 and 80 mlg per day ( 70 is a pretty good compromise) so try to slowly but surely up the dose till you reach the optimal range if you see you have good tollerance to the stuff.

my advise would be to up the dose by 10 mlg per day each week ( so week one 30, week two 40, week three 50, etc. ) until you are in range

 

[Gibsonator]

Lmao when I read "currently have that fight Club look with thicker back" haha. No. And Brad Pitt was scrawny in fight club. Listen to these fellas they're pretty fart smellers.

 

[harveus]

Lmao when I read "currently have that fight Club look with thicker back" haha. No. And Brad Pitt was scrawny in fight club. Listen to these fellas they're pretty fart smellers.

while i agree on the fact that bradd pitt in that particular movie had the body of my grandma ( wich is dead ) to have that kind of look might just be his goal.

now i don't actually know WHY someone would wan't to look like that, or look at that kind of body as to something to aspire to in general...but hey, De gustibus non est disputandum