is this the safest first cyle?

[seany110]

Hi everyone, going to start my first cycle of test pretty soon.

the plan:

During cycle:
weeks 1-10:
400mg testosterone (enanthate) per week. Sunday - 200mg Thursday 200mg.
1 quarter tablet of arimidex every other day (0.25mg) to avoid gyno and Edema

(balding is not in my family so I'm not planning on using anything to prevent that as I've been told its not needed for this kind of cycle)


PCT:
(2 weeks after last shot)

day 1: 150mg clomid 60mg nolva
day 2-11: 100mg clomid, 40mg nolva
day 12-21: 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva.


What are your opinions of this for a first cycle? Greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[Austinite]

A safe cycle would require an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and hCG on cycle, pre and mid cycle blood work, and post PCT blood work. All assuming appropriate stats.

 

[bigkit34]

I would run the clomid 100/100/50/50 and nolva 40/40/20/20 for 4 weeks. Really no need to frontload day 1. Also as austin suggested Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout 500iu week split into 2 inj

 

[gram of tren]

id run the test at 500/week. Id leave the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) out til you see if its necessary to use. a lot of people don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), especially on a low dose of test, so why add unnecessary drugs to the body?

 

[DreDay187]

id run the test at 500/week. Id leave the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) out til you see if its necessary to use. a lot of people don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), especially on a low dose of test, so why add unnecessary drugs to the body?

500mg/wk of test is well above physiological levels. Most ppl do need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), they just don't know it.

 

[gram of tren]

what do you base that statement on? how do you know most people need an AI?

 

[Mprtz]

Lots of people on TRT now on lower doses; most need Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on doses at or below 200mg, let alone 500mg.

 

[halfwit]

what do you base that statement on? how do you know most people need an AI?

Because he like many of us that have been around have seen enough blood tests indicating that unless you're a genetic freak, you're going to need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for anything above 200mg/wk. Unless you happen to think bloat/high bp/irritability/acne/prostatitis are all normal and come from testosterone...which they don't.

I always encourage folks to disagree with me, just be prepared to prove your side of the argument with blood tests showing that you don't aromatize beyond the healthy values indicated on a panel. I've yet to see someone get a blood test without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and have happy news to report.

Just sayin'.

 

[DreDay187]

what do you base that statement on? how do you know most people need an AI?

I think these two fine gentlemen answered it perfectly for me but let me ask you this: what did you base your original statement on, the one about not needing an AI?

Lots of people on TRT now on lower doses; most need Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on doses at or below 200mg, let alone 500mg.

Because he like many of us that have been around have seen enough blood tests indicating that unless you're a genetic freak, you're going to need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for anything above 200mg/wk. Unless you happen to think bloat/high bp/irritability/acne/prostatitis are all normal and come from testosterone...which they don't.

I always encourage folks to disagree with me, just be prepared to prove your side of the argument with blood tests showing that you don't aromatize beyond the healthy values indicated on a panel. I've yet to see someone get a blood test without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and have happy news to report.

Just sayin'.

 

[gram of tren]

myself and plenty of people I know that cycle have not needed ai's. most of you recommend blasting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the gate and all that's gonna do is drive his estro into the ground. no point in arguing with the "vets" on this board. this board is notorious for banning people that disagree with the vets. same old song and dance.

 

[danielkvc]

myself and plenty of people I know that cycle have not needed ai's. most of you recommend blasting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the gate and all that's gonna do is drive his estro into the ground. no point in arguing with the "vets" on this board. this board is notorious for banning people that disagree with the vets. same old song and dance.

.

I guess it's choosing between the sides form the gear or the sides from low estro. I have a pre-existing condition in my shoulder joint and when I took adex right from the beginning of my first cycle my shoulder got so bad I almost couldn't train. Dropped the adex and everything was back to normal after a week.

If you don't have problems with the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) sides it's fine. But I'd keep to dosage quite low to avoid pushing the estro below normal levels... But getting that right would require quite some regular bloodwork...

 

[DreDay187]

myself and plenty of people I know that cycle have not needed ai's. most of you recommend blasting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the gate and all that's gonna do is drive his estro into the ground. no point in arguing with the "vets" on this board. this board is notorious for banning people that disagree with the vets. same old song and dance.

Brother, I'd hate to see you banned but there's no reason to be banned over a discussion between two people. I'm not going to flame you or anything and just keep it cool. If I'm wrong I'm wrong and we can both discuss our views and no one is going to ban you if you disagree with me or anyone else.

 

[Austinite]

myself and plenty of people I know that cycle have not needed ai's. most of you recommend blasting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the gate and all that's gonna do is drive his estro into the ground. no point in arguing with the "vets" on this board. this board is notorious for banning people that disagree with the vets. same old song and dance.

I disagree that people get banned for disagreeing. I haven't observed such a thing.

With respect to your comments, it's expected when you don't understand how the human body works, to do things that are irresponsible to your body. I also don't know what you mean by 'blasting' an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), I don't recall anyone ever, on any forum, suggest 'blasting' AI's. Sounds kind of silly.

 

[Mprtz]

I think the definition of "needing" Aromatase inhibitor (AI) has changed over time - on TRT and on cycle I think it has become much more common to determine the need for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on the basis of E2 blood value alone, not just when the side effects are perceived as intolerable. I'm sure the increased availability of private testing has a lot to do with that.

 

[halfwit]

myself and plenty of people I know that cycle have not needed ai's. most of you recommend blasting an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the gate and all that's gonna do is drive his estro into the ground. no point in arguing with the "vets" on this board. this board is notorious for banning people that disagree with the vets. same old song and dance.

So you can feel the beginning of the onset of prostatitis? I have people disagree with me all the time, sometimes I'm wrong - sometimes I'm right. I'm always willing to learn something new, but how does taking a small dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) followed by a blood test to verify proper dosing cause a crash in estradiol? I like to think "smart cycling" is encouraged on this board as I still see other forums that have folks recommending milk thistle and nolva on cycle and tapering down doses for a PCT. It's no longer the 1980's my friend, we now have third generation aromatase inhibitors to help us cycle safely without having to worry about gyno or any of the other problems this natural carcinogen can cause.

I think the definition of "needing" Aromatase inhibitor (AI) has changed over time - on TRT and on cycle I think it has become much more common to determine the need for Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on the basis of E2 blood value alone, not just when the side effects are perceived as intolerable. I'm sure the increased availability of private testing has a lot to do with that.

I actually view this as a positive. I feel that this pushing of blood tests (a good thing) most definitely came from guys on TRT as they have been taught by doctors on how to do this right. They share this information with friends online so guys that cycle can benefit from things at a medical perspective.

I think we agree on this being a positive rather than a negative at least!

 

[Austinite]

So you can feel the beginning of the onset of prostatitis? I have people disagree with me all the time, sometimes I'm wrong - sometimes I'm right. I'm always willing to learn something new, but how does taking a small dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) followed by a blood test to verify proper dosing cause a crash in estradiol? I like to think "smart cycling" is encouraged on this board as I still see other forums that have folks recommending milk thistle and nolva on cycle and tapering down doses for a PCT. It's no longer the 1980's my friend, we now have third generation aromatase inhibitors to help us cycle safely without having to worry about gyno or any of the other problems this natural carcinogen can cause.



I actually view this as a positive. I feel that this pushing of blood tests (a good thing) most definitely came from guys on TRT as they have been taught by doctors on how to do this right. They share this information with friends online so guys that cycle can benefit from things at a medical perspective.

I think we agree on this being a positive rather than a negative at least!

You don't know anything of what you're not talking about...

pow. right in the kisser. Is this a sense of humor? Or am I still way off?

 

[Mprtz]

... I actually view this as a positive. I feel that this pushing of blood tests (a good thing) most definitely came from guys on TRT as they have been taught by doctors on how to do this right. They share this information with friends online so guys that cycle can benefit from things at a medical perspective.

I think we agree on this being a positive rather than a negative at least!

Yes, absolutely I meant this as a positive. More information is almost always better. I'm waiting for someone to develop a real-time wrist monitor!

 

[halfwit]

You don't know anything of what you're not talking about...

pow. right in the kisser. Is this a sense of humor? Or am I still way off?

LOL. You actually almost got me tonight!

We're slowly making you into a convert Austinite! Yes, even better - intellectual humor at its finest.

Yes, absolutely I meant this as a positive. More information is almost always better. I'm waiting for someone to develop a real-time wrist monitor!

SIGN ME UP! I'm not weary of blood tests or anything, but if they have blood glucose and A1C monitors that have real-time results, why not an E2 monitor?! I'd definitely drop some coin on that!

 

[DreDay187]

You don't know anything of what you're not talking about...

pow. right in the kisser. Is this a sense of humor? Or am I still way off?

I think Half and I are wearing you down lol. Between his 6'7" ass and my middle eastern food bribes we'll get you yet!

 

[thefantom1]

The average male on TRT is given 100mg a week of test. You want to use 400mg a week of test. That is 4 times the amount of normal test. I feel the best thing to do is 300mg a week for a first cycle. That way you will be getting roughly 3 times the amount of normal test and any sides that you may have to test will be minimal. The problem with "cycles" are that they never seem to get smaller. Slow and steady wins the race. 300mg will put you in much higher anabolic state and give you the chance to see how your body reacts to the extra testosterone both positive and negative. You would make some nice games if everything is in check and keep more of your gains. I say this because the body wants to stay in a state of homeostasis. The more extreme you go on a cycle the more extreme your body fights it off after cycle. Anyway, just my thoughts...