Jintropin 191 amino acid and Kexing 192?

[WI]

Well, I'm pretty fond of Jintropin's personally but was doing some research on the Kexings for the fact that they are sligthly cheaper. I have a friend who is pretty knowledgeable in field of rHGH coming from China and told him if he could do some research regarding the top labs out their and below is what he emailed me. Now I'm not saying it's true but certaintly something to think about as it could be accurate.

GENESCIENCE JINTROPIN

Jintropin is the most popular rHGH sold in China. According to IMS, an internationally recognized marketing firm, Jintropin is the absolute market leader in China with just over 75% market share.

Jintropin and Lily's Humatrope use a technology called secretion technology which will produce a 191 amino acid sequence growth hormone, with much less E.coli protein contamination and not any side effects associated with injection, such as red painful welts. This technology also has the advantage that growth hormone produced using secretion technology is very stable; it can be stable at 37C or 98 degrees for about 30 days. While growth hormone with192 amino acid sequence is only stable at room temperature for just a few days.

KEXING FITROPIN

To manufacture their rHGH, Fitropin, Kexing is using a technology called inclusion body technology, which can only produce a 192 amino acid growth hormone, very similar to Genentech's old growth hormone, Protropin. Growth hormone produced by inclusion body technology is very easily contaminated by the E.coli protein used to express the HGH. A very common side effect of this contamination lack of product potency due to degradation of the HGH and painful welts at the injection site.

Kexing's growth hormone's first amino acid is Met, while Jintropin and Lily's Humatrope's first amino acid is Phe (which is identical to natural growth hormone produced in your body). Because Kexing's first amino acid is Met, this indicates clearly that Kexing's growth hormone must have 192 amino acids with met being the extra amino acid.

PLEASE NOTE: all the rHGH manufacturers in China, (Kexing, Anke, United) except for GeneScience use the inclusion body technology.

 

[einstein1905]

That IS good info, and I've has suspicions that Kexing was putting out 192aa GH. However, the reasons stated don't make sense. Producing/purifying any recombinant protein via secretion is simply a function of adding an additional "secretory sequence (usually a sequence from a cytokine) that allows the recombinant protein to be, you guessed it, secreted, so there is far less residual bacterial protein to be reckoned with.

Inclusion body purification is a method where the growth conditions of the bacteria will cause the bacteria to sequester a recombinant protein into "inclusion bodies", which are compartments which can be isolated from the rest of the lysed bacteria and then treated to be lysed themselves, in the absence of the rest of the host proteins.....yet another very efficient method. The number of aa's should have virtually no role in deciding which purification method is used.

If the 191aa sequence is amenable to adding a secretory sequence, then the odds that the 192aa sequence WON'T be are next to nothing. You simply cleave off the secretory sequence after isolating the protein.

That's why I can't understand why anyone would still be making the 192aa analog, as the process should be identical.

I don't recall the EU/mL or residual host protein to GH ratio for Jino, but I'd like to see the numbers for Kexing's. I can't imagine they are really any different.

 

[WI]

That IS good info, and I've has suspicions that Kexing was putting out 192aa GH. However, the reasons stated don't make sense. Producing/purifying any recombinant protein via secretion is simply a function of adding an additional "secretory sequence (usually a sequence from a cytokine) that allows the recombinant protein to be, you guessed it, secreted, so there is far less residual bacterial protein to be reckoned with.

Inclusion body purification is a method where the growth conditions of the bacteria will cause the bacteria to sequester a recombinant protein into "inclusion bodies", which are compartments which can be isolated from the rest of the lysed bacteria and then treated to be lysed themselves, in the absence of the rest of the host proteins.....yet another very efficient method. The number of aa's should have virtually no role in deciding which purification method is used.

If the 191aa sequence is amenable to adding a secretory sequence, then the odds that the 192aa sequence WON'T be are next to nothing. You simply cleave off the secretory sequence after isolating the protein.

That's why I can't understand why anyone would still be making the 192aa analog, as the process should be identical.

I don't recall the EU/mL or residual host protein to GH ratio for Jino, but I'd like to see the numbers for Kexing's. I can't imagine they are really any different.

Great info einstein, I wonder if $$$$ plays a role in this? Would it be cheaper to produce a 192 amino instead of a 191 even though the process is pretty much identical as you stated above?

 

[Mudge]

Well, that removes Kexing from my Xmas list.

 

[einstein1905]

Great info einstein, I wonder if $$$$ plays a role in this? Would it be cheaper to produce a 192 amino instead of a 191 even though the process is pretty much identical as you stated above?

No cost factor IMO. It's simply a matter of transforming bacteria with the DNA (plasmid) encoding the 192 vs the 191aa. bacterial transformation is a 2hr, $25 job. Once you've got the bacterial strain carrying the DNA encoding either form, all else is identical. It is possible that kexing and ankebio and whomever else may be (allegedly) selling 192aa GH are all just purchasing from a single large supplier (why that company would not have switched is beyond me).
The red welts people get from GH are really indicative of an immune response, and although this certainly could be from residual bacterial protein, it's also very possible that it could be from 192aa GH. the 192aa GH is very dangerous in that antibodies (or an immune response in general) will most likely lead to an autoimmune response against all forms of GH, including endogenous GH.
No matter what's going on, the red welts are indicative of a localized imune response, so even if it is 191aa GH, an upregulated local immune environment can also be very amenable for the development of an immune response to any proteins in the vicinity, in this case 191aa GH, even if, on it's own, it wouldn't elicit a response, in the presence of bacterial protein, it's essentially the same outcome as injecting 192aa GH.

 

[Rokomuscle1]

Bump for more info...I know someone who just bought a few kits of Kexing.....

 

[JohnnyB]

Bump for more info...I know someone who just bought a few kits of Kexing.....

That sux

JohnnyB

 

[Rokomuscle1]

Bump again for any more info..

 

[jarbulldog]

that was good info because i would definatly go the 191aa because during the shipping phase you do not have to worry about the temp as much as you do with 192

 

[Rokomuscle1]

Well...maybe someone who is in the know will harp in on this...this pisses me off.... if its true.. why'll we are on the subject...anyone with more knowledge care to explain the difference between the 191 and the 192 in normal language ???

 

[einstein1905]

Well...maybe someone who is in the know will harp in on this...this pisses me off.... if its true.. why'll we are on the subject...anyone with more knowledge care to explain the difference between the 191 and the 192 in normal language ???

The 191aa analog is just an amino acid sequence that is extremely similar to endogenous GH. The additional amino acid on the 192aa analog, a methionine, is enough of a difference so that the immune system recognizes it as foreign (in roughly 40-50% of users). However, once the immune system does recognize this as foreign, it can mount an immune response against any region of the 192aa analog....not just the foreign part.....this is where the problem lies, because the rest of the 192aa version is identical to the 191aa version AND has a great deal of homology to endogenous GH, so there is potential for the immune system to react to endogenous GH now....even after stopping the 192aa version.


That's why it's not a gamble one wants to take

 

[Drveejay11]

There are going to be a LOT of pissed off people when they read this thread! For close to a year now, ALL I've heard across the boards is that Kexings and Jin's are essentially identical (this to me is NOT "identical") and that the results/effects they achieved from Kexings have mimicked those of Jin's!!!!

 

[raw lifter]

Wonderful, I've been on kex for about 7-8 months now ....been on gh for about a year (started with jins).....exactly what do I have to worry about now??.....I never get red welts but I have been sick more than ever the past year!

 

[einstein1905]

Just to clarify, I don't know for sure that the kexing GH is 192aa, but I do know that many people have told me they have seen red welts at the injection site, indicative of an immune response. I have never heard anyone experienceing the same from Jino, serostim, Humatrope, etc

 

[house1]

this should be looked into some more

 

[house1]

they are waiting for a response from kexing on another board

 

[WI]

Well...maybe someone who is in the know will harp in on this...this pisses me off.... if its true.. why'll we are on the subject...anyone with more knowledge care to explain the difference between the 191 and the 192 in normal language ???

thefantom, hey bro hopefully this information is false but the person who I got this information from is pretty solid unless they provided him with false information, he has nothing to gain from this by the way.

There are going to be a LOT of pissed off people when they read this thread! For close to a year now, ALL I've heard across the boards is that Kexings and Jin's are essentially identical (this to me is NOT "identical") and that the results/effects they achieved from Kexings have mimicked those of Jin's!!!!

No kidding doc, an unfortunately from what I have gathered you get the side-effects in the long-haul and since you have to be on the rHGH for long periods of time, well that's not good.

they are waiting for a response from kexing on another board

house, what board bro.? My guy had told me that both him and Gensci had emailed Kexing to acquire about their rHGH, asking them if it was a 191 or 192 amino-acid. Well after several emails of non-correspondence that he sent to them.........he just let it die.

 

[einstein1905]

thefantom, hey bro hopefully this information is false but the person who I got this information from is pretty solid unless they provided him with false information, he has nothing to gain from this by the way.



No kidding doc, an unfortunately from what I have gathered you get the side-effects in the long-haul and since you have to be on the rHGH for long periods of time, well that's not good.



house, what board bro.? My guy had told me that both him and Gensci had emailed Kexing to acquire about their rHGH, asking them if it was a 191 or 192 amino-acid. Well after several emails of non-correspondence that he sent to them.........he just let it die.

VIPBB is the board.
Of course Kexing will say it's 191aa. The real test would be to have someone independently test it for residual host protein and aa sequence

 

[Rokomuscle1]

I cannot let this die......

 

[einstein1905]

Mamta made a good point on VIPBB regarding this issue. he said that thos egetting welts were advised to use more water to reconstitute, and this caused no more welts (Stonecold said this too). This tells me that most likely the welts are due to just a lot of residual bacterial protein......this still isn't great news though. The add'l water just dilutes the protein so that when injected, there will be less "immunogen" per unit area, and this will be less likely to elicit a response. However, there is no guarantee that this will necessarily work in all cases. So, it appears to be a purity issue rather than a sequence issue, but the results can be the same, as mentioned earlier.