keeping gains with low test levels

[fitty pence]

I had a blood test prior to my first cycle. Test (as well as most other hormone related items) were at the very low end of normal for my age (41). Test I believe was around 240. I did a 10 week cycle of test enan (500mg week) with a front load of prop and closed out the last 2 weeks with prop. I took a small amount of adex through out and 250 iu of hcg 2 days a week during cycle. For post cycle therapy (pct) I continued the adex and added some nolva for 2-3 weeks. I did not notice any reduced nut size. I felt great post cycle. However, I did not retain my gains. I've been training 25 years at a very intense level with modest success in local body building contests when I was in my 30's. I really felt I had pretty much reached my natural potential as far as size and strength that is why I resorted to the first cycle.

Do you feel steroid induced gains above your natural potential can be held onto if you have low testosterone?

 

[lionhead]

No. It is hard if not impossible. Unless if you are on gear then it is possible.

 

[fitty pence]

What about GH? If I did a Gh cycle would the gains stick in my circumstance?

 

[Pimpology]

yes it would. gh produces allnew musclecells..permanently in contrast to gear wich only(temporarly) enlargens current cells not the ammount..but to get that result from gh you have to do atleast a year amount of it=EXPENSIVE

 

[DADAWG]

at your age and test levels you are a prime candidate for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) .

 

[gilreuven]

yes it would. gh produces allnew musclecells..permanently in contrast to gear wich only(temporarly) enlargens current cells not the ammount..but to get that result from gh you have to do atleast a year amount of it=EXPENSIVE

not true , hyperplasia of muscle never been documented on a grown human.
I remind you that GH circulates in the blood without you shoting it ,so the cels are just getting bigger and stronger nothing else !!

 

[gilreuven]

I had a blood test prior to my first cycle. Test (as well as most other hormone related items) were at the very low end of normal for my age (41). Test I believe was around 240. I did a 10 week cycle of test enan (500mg week) with a front load of prop and closed out the last 2 weeks with prop. I took a small amount of adex through out and 250 iu of hcg 2 days a week during cycle. For post cycle therapy (pct) I continued the adex and added some nolva for 2-3 weeks. I did not notice any reduced nut size. I felt great post cycle. However, I did not retain my gains. I've been training 25 years at a very intense level with modest success in local body building contests when I was in my 30's. I really felt I had pretty much reached my natural potential as far as size and strength that is why I resorted to the first cycle.

Do you feel steroid induced gains above your natural potential can be held onto if you have low testosterone?

well low test also effects your motivation so without test you "dont want" to keep training , you can cycle without a problem ones a year!

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

yes it would. gh produces allnew musclecells..permanently in contrast to gear wich only(temporarly) enlargens current cells not the ammount..but to get that result from gh you have to do atleast a year amount of it=EXPENSIVE

Nothing is permanent-----

Hyperplasia does not start after a year of use.

 

[fitty pence]

at your age and test levels you are a prime candidate for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) .

I am considering Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) with the occasional cycle mixed in. However, that is a decision that is tough to make so I am thinking about trying some other things first.

 

[fitty pence]

not true , hyperplasia of muscle never been documented on a grown human.
I remind you that GH circulates in the blood without you shoting it ,so the cels are just getting bigger and stronger nothing else !!

I've always heard gh produces hyperplasia but never understood how this is possible. And if it is possible why (other than $) wouldn't everyone be doing gh rarther than aas? Where did the conventional wisdow that hyperplasia happens with gh come from? Do you have a reference re hyperplasia not being possible?

 

[fitty pence]

well low test also effects your motivation so without test you "dont want" to keep training , you can cycle without a problem ones a year!

I have no trouble with training intensity or motivation. In fact I was quite shocked to find out I had low test.

 

[Thoms]

Speaking as someone with low test levels, no. Even natural gains become impossible to keep. As yourself, that's the reason why I turned to chemical bodybuilding. We don't live in the dark ages any more so take advantage.

 

[Thoms]

In fact I was quite shocked to find out I had low test.

Been there.

 

[gilreuven]

I've always heard gh produces hyperplasia but never understood how this is possible. And if it is possible why (other than $) wouldn't everyone be doing gh rarther than aas? Where did the conventional wisdow that hyperplasia happens with gh come from? Do you have a reference re hyperplasia not being possible?

dont know if its a ligit source http://www.uoregon.edu/~iishp/Berger3.html
its very east to see if cels are dividing and there are no concrete evidence
meaning noone ever proved it . I had a test on that today when u see cels dividing in muscle its only the formation of a scar tisue which is not functional

 

[gilreuven]

I have no trouble with training intensity or motivation. In fact I was quite shocked to find out I had low test.

low testosterone isnt the only reason , the body has other mechanisms to overcome the propblem , maybe your amount of receptors is high
or maybe your SHBG is low which makes free testosterone higher

not everything is black and white

 

[roccodart440]

I think after a cycle you will lose some gains but not all so long as training and diet is good. Even with normal test levels your body has low, well actually very low test compared to when you were injecting 500+ mg EW. So how can low test be that big of an issue in keeping gains? Growing...well that's a whole other ball game.

 

[fitty pence]

ROCCO, that's a damn good point. As far as I can tell when takeing 500 mg week of test my blood level would be around 2000 ng. (Would you experts agree with my estimate?). When off I'd go back to my "normal" low test level of around 250ng (as opposed to a typical 40 year old male normal test level of around 600ng). Is the difference between 250 and 600 so great that one would expect to lose nearly all gains at 250ng but keep most gains at 600ng. I doubt it. I could test this by doing virtually the same cycle over again and rather than quit and go cold turkey after post cycle therapy (pct) I could just taper my test down to a doseage that I would estimate would keep me at a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) type test level of 600ng. That dose I would estimate at around 150mg a week. After a month or two of 150mg a week if I'm not loseing my gains then obviously at 250ng I could not keep gains whereas at 600 ng I perhaps could.

The only down side to trying this was I really wanted to mix in some deca (probably npp in actuality) on my second cycle.

 

[DADAWG]

ROCCO, that's a damn good point. As far as I can tell when takeing 500 mg week of test my blood level would be around 2000 ng. (Would you experts agree with my estimate?). When off I'd go back to my "normal" low test level of around 250ng (as opposed to a typical 40 year old male normal test level of around 600ng). Is the difference between 250 and 600 so great that one would expect to lose nearly all gains at 250ng but keep most gains at 600ng. I doubt it. I could test this by doing virtually the same cycle over again and rather than quit and go cold turkey after post cycle therapy (pct) I could just taper my test down to a doseage that I would estimate would keep me at a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) type test level of 600ng. That dose I would estimate at around 150mg a week. After a month or two of 150mg a week if I'm not loseing my gains then obviously at 250ng I could not keep gains whereas at 600 ng I perhaps could.

The only down side to trying this was I really wanted to mix in some deca (probably npp in actuality) on my second cycle.

every person is different , i know some who need 200 plus a week of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) cyp just to stay in the middle normal range which is 500-600 ng . it is VERY possible that low test is stopping you from keeping your gains IMO .

 

[D-bo]

I had a blood test done after a 14 week cycle of prop&tren and the test was done 3 months later and my test was still low at around 240 I forget normal the doc said was 280 to 1100. I was still making gains even with the low level of test. I was not as strong but I don't care about strength. The doc said that for it to be 3 months later and i am only at a 240 My body was probably producing 0 testosterone through out the cycle. I learned my lesson and 1 will never do tren that long again and use HCG through out the whole cycle and do a good pct! So point I think that with low test as long as you hit the gym hard and Diet you will keep or make new gains just not as fast.

 

[roccodart440]

every person is different , i know some who need 200 plus a week of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) cyp just to stay in the middle normal range which is 500-600 ng . it is VERY possible that low test is stopping you from keeping your gains IMO .

2 questions

Whhy would someone need this much to get them, into the middle of the normal range?

I thought for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) they try to get you in the top 25% of the normal range?