Lab results comparisons after adding HCG. Looking for feedback.

[Billegitimate]

Okay, here are the lab results from the previous two months, taken March 12, and April 4.

Mar 12 / April 4

TT______1062 / 1290 (348-1197)
DHT______na / 174 (30-85) My labs in March didn't include DHT.
E2______29.5 / 80.9 (7.6-42.6)
SHBG____59.1 / 69.4 (16.5-55.9)
DHEA-S__298.7 / 430.1 (71-375)
TSH_____2.2 / 4.47 (.45-4.5)
T3_______3.0 / 3.0 (2.0-4.4)
HCRIT____48 / 46.4 (37.5-51.0)


For 6 weeks leading up to the 1st test, I had been using 120mg testosterone cypionate/week sub-q divided into two injections, and was taking 10mg/day DHEA. Nothing else. The labs were taken the day after a T injection.

After the 1st labs I switched to 105mg T per week divided into EOD injections of 30mg and continued taking the DHEA. I felt pretty good on that for a couple of weeks, and my plan was to have that lower my testosterone levels a bit in preparation for adding HCG.

I followed that for two weeks to (hopefully) get my T levels a bit lower, and on week 3 I added 250iu HCG twice a week. I had been feeling pretty good up until that point. I didn't feel bad after adding the HCG, just...different.

In any case, the 2nd labs were taken the day after my 2nd HCG shot and the day of (though before) my next T shot.

Here's what I'm curious about:
A) Obviously the T is higher than the first labs. I'm doing sub-q, is it still building up or did the HCG bump it by that large an amount?

B) E2...never had an issue in the past on creams, and obviously no issue in the first labs. But the DHEA-S is much higher! So, is the E2 from the DHEA, the HCG, the elevated T...or a beautiful storm of all 3?

C) Why did my TSH shoot up like that? I don't have measured TSH levels other than these two labs, so I don't have any reference for what I'm normally making

In the meantime, since I don't feel better with the HCG anyway, here's my plan:
I'll keep the T injections at 105mg/week, drop the HCG and DHEA, wait 4 weeks and test my levels again. Then I'll have a baseline for where I am with that dosage of T, and can decide when or if to add the HCG back in. I'll also be looking for DHEA and E2 to drop back into range.

I look forward to thoughts/suggestions, etc.

 

[Megatron28]

I would stay on the HCG, but you need to manage Estradiol by taking an Aromatase Inhibitor like Arimidex. HCG is causing higher test which aromatizes and HCG is probably causing intratesticular aromatization.

I don't get the higher TSH. I don't see how the changes you made could cause that to happen.

What does your doctor think/suggest?

 

[Billegitimate]

Haven't talked to him yet. Monday I'll call.

 

[Alpin]

What do you mean when you say you felt "different" after adding in hcg to your protocol?

 

[Alpin]

I would not worry about the intertesticular aromatization from 250 I.u. of HCG twice a week. 500 I.u. per dose is usually the upper safe limit for not creating excess estradiol in the testes. Use an AI with that dose and you should be ok. If dosing higher than 500 I.u. per shot of HCG then excess E2 can be an issue which at that point Letro (in low doses) would be a better option vs. Adex.

 

[Billegitimate]

What do you mean when you say you felt "different" after adding in hcg to your protocol?

Hmmm. Hard to describe. I find myself wanting to describe it as not being as clear mentally, a little less driven perhaps, but those sound more negative than it actually was. A little less sharp and precise feeling? It was a subtle change, but a definite change. For that week I just didn't feel the same. Not clearly worse, but definitely not better.

In other words, if I were to rate my general well being, energy, and libido I'd have given myself a 7 of 10 for the weeks leading up to the HCG addition, and still a 7 of 10 for that week. Identical scores, perhaps, but I preferred the 7 I was feeling prior to the HCG over the 7 I felt with it. I'm talking myself into circles here, but I'm trying, APOLLON, I promise!

 

[Alpin]

Hmmm. Hard to describe. I find myself wanting to describe it as not being as clear mentally, a little less driven perhaps, but those sound more negative than it actually was. A little less sharp and precise feeling? It was a subtle change, but a definite change. For that week I just didn't feel the same. Not clearly worse, but definitely not better.

In other words, if I were to rate my general well being, energy, and libido I'd have given myself a 7 of 10 for the weeks leading up to the HCG addition, and still a 7 of 10 for that week. Identical scores, perhaps, but I preferred the 7 I was feeling prior to the HCG over the 7 I felt with it. I'm talking myself into circles here, but I'm trying, APOLLON, I promise!

Meh...
Its all in your head. HCG if anything boosts mental clarity and cognitive function.

 

[Megatron28]

Meh...
Its all in your head. HCG if anything boosts mental clarity and cognitive function.

My vote goes towards the high estradiol being the culprit.

 

[Billegitimate]

Yeah, I can get how you'd say that, so no offense taken. Seems funny to me that when introducing something new to the protocol, you'd first azascribe the change to my thoughts about it rather than the chemical action, while your next sentence is ascribing boosts to clarity and cognitive function to chemical action rather than being in someone's head.

As I said, no offense taken. If we were close friends you'd know me well enough to know how I tend to be with these things. Having done blind studies on myself (yes, can be done) with things as simple as types of coffee, I'm not hanging out in the hypochondriac/anxiety/second guessing realm.

Oops, I didn't quote APOLLON, but meant to.

 

[Billegitimate]

My vote goes towards the high estradiol being the culprit.

I wonder. I've never to my knowledge had high E2 so I have no basis for comparison. It's been a week since I dropped the hcg and reduced the T dose, and I'm feeling better than prior. I'll chat with doc next week but I'm going to suggest I hang out right here for a month, retest and reevaluate.

 

[Megatron28]

I wonder. I've never to my knowledge had high E2 so I have no basis for comparison. It's been a week since I dropped the hcg and reduced the T dose, and I'm feeling better than prior. I'll chat with doc next week but I'm going to suggest I hang out right here for a month, retest and reevaluate.

Trust all of us here. Estradiol (high or low) is the cause of most problems while on TRT. You now have experience with high estradiol.

 

[Alpin]

Yes his E2 was 80.9 pg/ml.
My bad. Were u not running an AI?

 

[Billegitimate]

Yes his E2 was 80.9 pg/ml.
My bad. Were u not running an AI?

Nope, had not needed one on t cream, and up until I added the hcg my e2 was not high on t injections even with total t close to 1100. It's only been after adding the hcg that I felt like this, and only after adding the hcg have I had e2 out of range.