Lean Gainers cycle with existing Gyno

[MongooseMMA]

Ok so first time on any forums new to this stuff but not new to gear. Not a major user but have some experience. My first cycles were test suspension then test cyp then i did a stack of primo eq winstrol with clen and t3 great cutter stack. i was fighting pro at the time and this was 12 years ago so not much drug testing before boxing comm. got in control. Ive long retired and have done a couple cycles. Test cyp. with winny. Test cyp with Dbol. Never did any pct. and never had bad sides no gyno ever. Did a month of Adrol with my test and got gyno. Been living with it for awhile but did not realize there was much i could do for it other than get cut on. Now i know there are some good things to at least shrink it. Its not real noticeable only to me. Its in one nipple and about an inch or more flat. No puffy nips at all just the lump. I want to do a cycle but dont want to make gyno much worse and would like to shrink it some.
Im 43
5'4" 160lbs (Ive been up to 199lbs before)
bf 15% to 18%
Ive had ok gains but because of no pct always lost alot.
Would like to concentrate on clean gains. My diet is very clean i do alot of cadio.

After much research i was thinking this

week 1 to 10
250 test e or c
week 1 and 2
250mcg oral tren ed (kick start and does not aromatise)
week 5 to 10 40mg var ed
Letro up to 2.5mg tapper on and off run entire cycle and pct
pct aromasin for two to four more weeks after letro is stopped with clomed stay on clomed till balls fill maybe hcg in there somewhere.

Any advise from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Megatron28]

I would really like to encourage you to read the sticky threads on how to run a cycle. You are making a lot of mistakes here despite running several cycles in the past.

First of all. since you are gyno prone and don't want to make your existing gyno worse, you should run Raloxifene during your cycle. Think of it as an insurance policy.

You would be better served by running Aromasin (or Arimidex) during your cycle for your AI instead of Letro. Letro is really strong and it is way to easy to crash your estradiol with it.

Run pre, mid and post cycle blood work. See below in my signature for more details.

You should run hCG during your cycle. Fro. Day 1 until you start PCT (stop a few days prior). Don't use hCG during PCT as it is suppressive to your HPTA.

PCT should consist of both Clomid and Nolva.

Just curios: why not use injectible tren instead of an oral version?

250mg/week of test is not really a cycle. That is slightly higher than a replacement dose of you natural testosterone. This will barely get you above the normal range for TT. You should bump this up to 500-750mg per week.

I am sure there is more, but that is all I can think of for now. Again, do some homework before you start another cycle.

 

[oldmusclemike]

I would really like to encourage you to read the sticky threads on how to run a cycle. You are making a lot of mistakes here despite running several cycles in the past.

First of all. since you are gyno prone and don't want to make your existing gyno worse, you should run Raloxifene during your cycle. Think of it as an insurance policy.

You would be better served by running Aromasin (or Arimidex) during your cycle for your AI instead of Letro. Letro is really strong and it is way to easy to crash your estradiol with it.

Run pre, mid and post cycle blood work. See below in my signature for more details.

You should run hCG during your cycle. Fro. Day 1 until you start PCT (stop a few days prior). Don't use hCG during PCT as it is suppressive to your HPTA.

PCT should consist of both Clomid and Nolva.

Just curios: why not use injectible tren instead of an oral version?

250mg/week of test is not really a cycle. That is slightly higher than a replacement dose of you natural testosterone. This will barely get you above the normal range for TT. You should bump this up to 500-750mg per week.

I am sure there is more, but that is all I can think of for now. Again, do some homework before you start another cycle.

Mongoose, This ^^^^^ can't be better said. Take heed to all of that. I suggest you try to talk more to Megatron on this since he seem to be right on top of what info you need. He's right on about the Ralox and the Letro. Don't use the Letro....Good luck you need to read more and get more help

 

[MongooseMMA]

Thanks for advise. I agree the test dose is low i was just worried might increase gyno, and i thought with the var 250mg test would feel like 500mg and of course price is always an issue. Oral tren also because of price i get 100tabs for $25 tren a,e or h would cost me over $100 but if i ran that would you recommend dosage. I thought letro because i read its by far the best thing for existing gyno. but im up for all advice. Could you give example of how you would run a cycle at my age weight goals also pct. Im not opposed to test only at 500mg week but want lean gains. The other drugs should keep bloat and most side away correct?

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks for advise. I agree the test dose is low i was just worried might increase gyno, and i thought with the var 250mg test would feel like 500mg and of course price is always an issue. Oral tren also because of price i get 100tabs for $25 tren a,e or h would cost me over $100 but if i ran that would you recommend dosage. I thought letro because i read its by far the best thing for existing gyno. but im up for all advice. Could you give example of how you would run a cycle at my age weight goals also pct. Im not opposed to test only at 500mg week but want lean gains. The other drugs should keep bloat and most side away correct?

If your other cycles have been like this in the past, why not try a simple but effective one. Here is what I would do.

12 Week Cycle:
Test C or E at 750mg/week
Raloxifene at 60mg daily to ward off gyno
Arimidex at .25mg EOD. Increase if needed per blood work and symptoms.
hCG at 250iu twice a week.

Weeks 13-15
Continue hCG. Stop 2-3 days before PCT.
Continue Raloxifene.
Continue Arimidex.

Week 16: start PCT. Just Clomid and Nolva. Don't take anything else. I am on TRT so I can't remember the dosages and times. But someone else can post that.

 

[MongooseMMA]

Sounds good but 750mg of test sounds like a lot with existing gyno, a little worried, also will the ralox have any shrinking effect on the gyno or just keep from getting any worse?

 

[oldmusclemike]

Sounds good but 750mg of test sounds like a lot with existing gyno, a little worried, also will the ralox have any shrinking effect on the gyno or just keep from getting any worse?

What Meg is advising I think is right on. Please take the Simple Approach like what he set up. If it were me I would follow to a "T"
Really that's what I would do and I have some Gyno. I also love Test. Test is best I say. The Ralox can and probably have a shrinking effect. Be advised that if the Gyno is old and or a solid lump (mass) this will be extremely hard to undo and usually will not go away. Once the tissue gets hard, well for most people only surgery will do.

So if still soft tissue you have a good % chance of repair and arrest. Good luck man.

 

[Megatron28]

You can do 500mg/week if you prefer. The Ralox and AI should keep the gyno at bay though.

 

[Matt0071]

Ok so first time on any forums new to this stuff but not new to gear. Not a major user but have some experience. My first cycles were test suspension then test cyp then i did a stack of primo eq winstrol with clen and t3 great cutter stack. i was fighting pro at the time and this was 12 years ago so not much drug testing before boxing comm. got in control. Ive long retired and have done a couple cycles. Test cyp. with winny. Test cyp with Dbol. Never did any pct. and never had bad sides no gyno ever. Did a month of Adrol with my test and got gyno. Been living with it for awhile but did not realize there was much i could do for it other than get cut on. Now i know there are some good things to at least shrink it. Its not real noticeable only to me. Its in one nipple and about an inch or more flat. No puffy nips at all just the lump. I want to do a cycle but dont want to make gyno much worse and would like to shrink it some.
Im 43
5'4" 160lbs (Ive been up to 199lbs before)
bf 15% to 18%
Ive had ok gains but because of no pct always lost alot.
Would like to concentrate on clean gains. My diet is very clean i do alot of cadio.

After much research i was thinking this

week 1 to 10
250 test e or c
week 1 and 2
250mcg oral tren ed (kick start and does not aromatise)
week 5 to 10 40mg var ed
Letro up to 2.5mg tapper on and off run entire cycle and pct
pct aromasin for two to four more weeks after letro is stopped with clomed stay on clomed till balls fill maybe hcg in there somewhere.

Any advise from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Well one thing I noticed is that u said your diet is very clean, if it was clean and or spot on there is no way u would be sitting at 18% bf bro, something doesnt add up
Exspecially like u were saying u do lots of cardio
I would work on your diet first, chop some fat and get down to a good bf %, then consider putting on some lean mass

 

[Matt0071]

Ok so first time on any forums new to this stuff but not new to gear. Not a major user but have some experience. My first cycles were test suspension then test cyp then i did a stack of primo eq winstrol with clen and t3 great cutter stack. i was fighting pro at the time and this was 12 years ago so not much drug testing before boxing comm. got in control. Ive long retired and have done a couple cycles. Test cyp. with winny. Test cyp with Dbol. Never did any pct. and never had bad sides no gyno ever. Did a month of Adrol with my test and got gyno. Been living with it for awhile but did not realize there was much i could do for it other than get cut on. Now i know there are some good things to at least shrink it. Its not real noticeable only to me. Its in one nipple and about an inch or more flat. No puffy nips at all just the lump. I want to do a cycle but dont want to make gyno much worse and would like to shrink it some.
Im 43
5'4" 160lbs (Ive been up to 199lbs before)
bf 15% to 18%
Ive had ok gains but because of no pct always lost alot.
Would like to concentrate on clean gains. My diet is very clean i do alot of cadio.

After much research i was thinking this

week 1 to 10
250 test e or c
week 1 and 2
250mcg oral tren ed (kick start and does not aromatise)
week 5 to 10 40mg var ed
Letro up to 2.5mg tapper on and off run entire cycle and pct
pct aromasin for two to four more weeks after letro is stopped with clomed stay on clomed till balls fill maybe hcg in there somewhere.

Any advise from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Your cycle looks like a mess as well, keep it simple

 

[oldmusclemike]

Your cycle looks like a mess as well, keep it simple

OP he aint listening. Doesn't seem to get it. Sometimes we need to stop asking more Q's and putting our own two cents in and just do what is suggested by the majority, do and end of issue.

Both Megatron and Matt are telling you what's up. If you're ready for a good simple cycle do the one Megatron laid out.

 

[MongooseMMA]

Thanks Guys, I will run the test only cycle Megatron laid out. My diet was not nearly as good as it is now. So my body fat was higher. Ive lost almost 30lbs over the last year, i dont know exact bf just going by pics on web of know bf % and compairing. Ive also lost some muscle from so much cardio. Im not looking to be a bodybuilder i still train alot in MMA speed and strength are key to me. I was strong as hell at over 190 but thats to much for my hight, hard to move on the mat and hard to maintain cardio. Over 40 just want some good clean gains without exploding the gyno. THanks for advice

 

[Matt0071]

Post up some current pics bro, we can give u a rough guess on what your bf is
Cals in vs cals out, honestly cardio is optional in my eyes, not lazy by all means but I hate cardio indoors, only cardio I do is bike to work and back, other then that I relie on my diet and trainig intense to do the work for me
Oh having sex burns cals, incorporiate that 3 times a day

 

[Matt0071]

U wanna work on your diet, u want to crank that metabolism up so it acts like a fat burning furnance
So many options u can use diet wise, cycling your carbs works wonders as well, talk to 3j, he is a nutrition guru lol

 

[MongooseMMA]

Thanks Matt. I know i need to up my cals. I have to do alot of cardio, like i said i train alot still in mma. I cant let the young guys i train get the best of me cause of my cardio lacking. No matter what anyone thinks in fighting cardio endurance is the most important factor. I go low carb most of the time. Seem to be pretty carb sensitive as i gain back pounds ive lost as soon as i have a cheat day. I was cycling carbs then i stopped losing so i went keto. Now im dragging ass alot in training. So i will check out 3j for advice. Im vegitarian i eat no bread lots of whole eggs and veggies.