Letro - Reply to Stone

[Scarz]

I wasn't getting defensive. It's always better to provide a study for a read rather than a personal opinion on a matter.

I simply asked if there was any study or data that can back up the claims that letro will hurt you more than help you. If letro at 2.5mg daily decreases estrogen up to 78%, which is the recommended daily dose (anything more will cause noticable side effects from lowering to much estrogen).

But if letra was taken daily at LESS than 2.5mg (which already not dangerous at 2.5mg) I dont see how thats a cause for concern? Even less than 2.5mg increases our natural test levels:

0.02 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 45% after 2 days
0.1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 49% after 2 days
0.5 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 48% after 2 days
1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 41% after 2 days

^This study proves that only 0.02mg of letro (femara) increase our natural test by 45% in 2 days!!! How can that possibly cause side effects even worth mentioning?

If 2.5mg decreases only 78% of estrogen than mathematically you approximate that 1mg will decrease estrogen by 39%, so someone do the math how much estrogen will be decreases by 0.02mg and pls tell me if thats worth worrying about!

I totally disagree of the locking the thread wthout discussing it bro. but its your call and hope you don't lock this one but rather show me how I'm wrong so I can change my views too if i see it.

 

[1badmofo]

2.5 every day is too much. I thought the suggestion was .5mg eod to make it last 1 year, thats what I got out of reading it.

 

[Scarz]

yeh thats the dose i'd take and recommend if we wanted to combat estrogen related sides - for sure. but to take it for an increase of ure own natural test production by up to almost 50%!! i'd take only 0.02mg daily for about 2 - 3 months and then take my first cycle afterwards. Thats a phenominal increase in test which can cause crazy musle gains for a newbie. I honestly think this will build an excellent foundation for the newb prior to his first cycle.

i simply can't see the harm in that. especially locking my previous thread over it. i'm still waiting for a response from stonecoldnto (i know ure busy bro - moderating an entire forum is not easy)

 

[StoneColdNTO]

That other thread was way more than just taking 2.5 mg of Letrozole. It was encouraging newbies to use Letrozole as an actual cycle, and the study by Trunet mentioned taking it at 10 & 30mg/day, which could easily be mis-interpeted by some one browsing the board and that thread.

Seriously that whole thread was flawed, starting with where he mentioned steroid receptors and that being the reason for a first cycle being best.

In actuallity, a first cycle is normally the best because most guys start cycling way before they should and they are no where near close to their genetic limit nor have been training near long enough.

I think back and wonder about my first cycle and the gains I would have made if I started at 160 lbs instead of waiting until I hit 200 naturally. You know damn well there would have been absolutely no comparison.

 

[Scarz]

thats fine nothing i posted was enforced or madatory. we're all entitled to our opinions. my point was to clarify that there would be almost no sides close to insignificant, at a low dose of letro at 0.02mg which will increase natural test by up to almost 50% in 2 days. i never said it shoudl replace a first cycle, but that it may be beneficial for those who cant cycle on steroids such as athletes or those who r in the gray area and want more preparations prior to a first cycle.

for those who read it i was NOT recommending high doses of letro! and in the study it even said NOT RECOMMENDED at high doses. 0.02mg is fine unless u want to fight estrogen related sides (0.5mg).

 

[Die$eL~Man]

i have used liquid letro from R -ology i ml per day and it worked great...

 

[Scarz]

diesel, how long did u use it for and what were ure results like


i just put someone on 0.02mg as of this morning so let`s see how this goes.

he`s straight natty, 22yrs old, 5`11 198lbs. if i were to guess, i`d say about 12-13%bf.

 

[Ythrashin]

I've heard low doses of both Adex and Aromasin will raise Test production also. The key is using just enough to boost levels and not to much to reduce estrogen to the point it causes unwanted sides.

I think I'd rather just run a cycle though!

 

[Scarz]

is that what the consensus is going to be? just tell everyone to hop on steroids?

<-- i dont even know wut this one is used for

 

[Ythrashin]

Nope...I'd rather just run a cycle.

Just read that other thread....

0.02 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 45% after 2 days
0.1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 49% after 2 days
0.5 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 48% after 2 days
1 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 41% after 2 days
2.5 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 74% after 3 days
10 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 97% after 2 days
30 mg of Letrozole increased testosterone by 113% after 3 days

This is is crazy!^^^ Someone seeing this will think "Oh if I do 30mg o' letro every 3 days I can raise my natty test 113%..." Just asking for sides... lipids,no libido, sore joints and every other side associated with low estro.

It can be done but this info is a bit flawed...

I say if they arent ready for AAS let them stick with creatine, no2, protien...

 

[scubba]

I'm fairly new to the board and to AAS. Have only done a ph cycle, but I have read Scarz's previous post and this one and do not think it is information saying take 30mg and be big.

He is offering someone like me that would like to try letro at a small dose of 0.02 mg and see some results over an extended period of time. I think this info is great and is not misleading to a newbie such as myself. I think this is an option for some people to try by itself or as mentioned, prior to a possible AAs cycle.

I personally think Scarz has some good info here and thank him for at least bringing it forward for consideration!

 

[Soldier of Megiddo]

There is a study in obese men. Obese men are often hypogonadal as the added adipose tissue predisposes to high aromatase levels and activity. These men were treated with letrozol once a week for some months and testosterone was increased something like 5-75%.

It is all together something different to take 2.5 mg or higher a day. Most will experience joint pain. As estrogen drops its activity in bone and joint tissue become deficit. This is not a state one would wish to be in for a prolonged period of time. Also, estrogen has functions in libido as well as being required in the overall anabolic process. That testosterone is increased does not immediately lead to increased anabolism.

Aromatase inhibitors are tricky. Letrozole seems to be very potent as an estrogen inhibitor. It is somewhat difficult to titrate without blood studies. An aromatase that might be more appropriate is aromasin (exemastane). It is a type 2 Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and does not have as dramatic an effect on lipid levels and seems to be well tolerated. It is more easily titrated and is effective in PCT protocols. It also appears to have a positive effect on IGF-1 levels in some individuals.

 

[dznutzxxx]

what is this joint pain I hear of?

Ive been on 2.5mg letro 15 days and I dont have this joint pain. This stuff should have started to work by now?

 

[Scarz]

Nope...I'd rather just run a cycle.

Just read that other thread....



This is is crazy!^^^ Someone seeing this will think "Oh if I do 30mg o' letro every 3 days I can raise my natty test 113%..." Just asking for sides... lipids,no libido, sore joints and every other side associated with low estro.

It can be done but this info is a bit flawed...

I say if they arent ready for AAS let them stick with creatine, no2, protien...

i dont understand why so many people r taking the study out of context. so when researchers or scholars conduct studies they should omit their results and only show half the study? its a study man they're putting everything in the open to see what happens at what dose. i think its COMMON SENCE not to use such high doses and not only have i been saying that but it CLEARLY sais do not take in such high doses.

if wut ure saying is someone ignorant to the subject will read it and immediately jump on 30mg, then that someone may read any damn study and jump on the highest dose the drug was tested on. not to mention will probably stumble on one of our cycle posts and inject 1000mg of test 1000 mg of tren and etc because he happen to read something and say "oh sounds good, he got good results, me try now".

and that creatine and other stuff is great expecially when combined with a mere 0.02mg of letro. 50% increase in your own natural test levels is pretty damn good bro. will work wonders for someone who's yet cycled.

I'm fairly new to the board and to AAS. Have only done a ph cycle, but I have read Scarz's previous post and this one and do not think it is information saying take 30mg and be big.

He is offering someone like me that would like to try letro at a small dose of 0.02 mg and see some results over an extended period of time. I think this info is great and is not misleading to a newbie such as myself. I think this is an option for some people to try by itself or as mentioned, prior to a possible AAs cycle.

I personally think Scarz has some good info here and thank him for at least bringing it forward for consideration!

i'm glad someone read it properly.

 

[Ythrashin]

Nolva at 20mg ED is said to increase Testosterone up around 150%... Same thing with clomid at 50mg ED. Wouldn't it be then be feasible to run a cycle of clomid or nolva then?

Not to crazy about the idea of using a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to increase Test. If it was attempted I think Aromasin would be the better choice...

 

[Ythrashin]

i dont understand why so many people r taking the study out of context. so when researchers or scholars conduct studies they should omit their results and only show half the study? its a study man they're putting everything in the open to see what happens at what dose. i think its COMMON SENCE not to use such high doses and not only have i been saying that but it CLEARLY sais do not take in such high doses.

Yeah it does... Had been up for about 5 min and decided to check postes before I jumped in the shower.. I skimmed/read and noticed that part I quoted, was shocked and jumped the gun on my decision.

I'll try be a little bit more open minded about the subject.

 

[juced_porkchop]

is that what the consensus is going to be? just tell everyone to hop on steroids?

<-- i dont even know wut this one is used for

no,........
if your not ready to cycle, DON'T FUCK WITH YOUR HOROMONES!!!
simple.
and if they are then YES tell them to cycle over taking letro.

sorry I still don't agree with your idea but to each his own.

 

[Scarz]

Nolva at 20mg ED is said to increase Testosterone up around 150%... Same thing with clomid at 50mg ED. Wouldn't it be then be feasible to run a cycle of clomid or nolva then?

Not to crazy about the idea of using a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to increase Test. If it was attempted I think Aromasin would be the better choice...

fuck the clomid lol but the nolva sounds interesting and worth looking into, would be interested in some studies if u got

Yeah it does... Had been up for about 5 min and decided to check postes before I jumped in the shower.. I skimmed/read and noticed that part I quoted, was shocked and jumped the gun on my decision.

I'll try be a little bit more open minded about the subject.

i do it all the time bud

no,........
if your not ready to cycle, DON'T FUCK WITH YOUR HOROMONES!!!
simple.
and if they are then YES tell them to cycle over taking letro.

sorry I still don't agree with your idea but to each his own.

i don't understand bro. ure first and second sentence confuse me. raising ure "natural" test is fucking with ure hormones? steroids fuck with ure hormones, period. letro at 0.02mg is not fucking with ure hormones dude.

by the way, u can't tell a 19 yr old to cycle and take steroids, but u can suggest he raise his own natural test levels. same goes for athletes. most cant afford to be caught on steroids when tested. i think this might help to a small degree rather than risking it or for those who yern for a cycle but cant touch it for unkown reasons.

anyway i made my point, i cant repeat the samething over and over again.