My continuing journey
- Thread starter miller98b
- Start date
So, the Endo finally called me back. T was at 312 after three weeks of Testim; previous to that I was on Androgel for a month or so. She didn't put my E2 level test on this round of labwork so it wasnt tested. My LH and FSH "were within normal range" (forgot to get the actual number) and my prolactin was 6.1. The MRI was clear from Pituitary Tumors and every other sort of possible problem. I'm starting to think I'm actually Schizo or suffering from some other personality disorder because they are not finding anything other than low T. She said that she would consider T injections if I would go one more month with the Testim, but increasing to 2 tubes per day instead of the current 1 tube.
I need objective opinions on how to proceed.......
Also, what should I demand for the next round of bloodwork?
Well, there's different ways to look at it.
Before I get into it, I have to say that 312 is most definitely not optimal while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and to not get discouraged by how you are feeling currently, because once your testosterone gets raised into a high-normal range, you will very likely see a noticeable positive difference in how you feel, which seems to not be likely possible, at least for long-term use, with gels or creams.
1. You can stick with the Dr. you have, knowing that within a month you will receive a protocol of injection testosterone. Meanwhile, the Testim will either again prove to not work, or will work, but likely eventually cause you to return to the state you are in currently. But my two concerns with this route would be:
ONE: that the two tubes per day would either increase your testosterone into an acceptable range but not produce noticeable benefits, or as I mentioned before, the Testim will work, however, after a while you will slowly regress into the state that you are currently, leaving you standing in the same shoes you are in today months or however long from now.
TWO: that by the sounds of what you have written, your doctor does not seem to have superior knowledge about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and so even if you do get on injectable testosterone, you would either not be given an optimal protocol, or have to educate your Dr.on what an optimal protocol is ie. injections once a week to even twice a week, potentially hCG, and likely and aromatase inhibitor.
2. the second route would be to seek out another source who either specializes in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or is more knowledgeable, for treatment.
Before I get into it, I have to say that 312 is most definitely not optimal while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and to not get discouraged by how you are feeling currently, because once your testosterone gets raised into a high-normal range, you will very likely see a noticeable positive difference in how you feel, which seems to not be likely possible, at least for long-term use, with gels or creams.
1. You can stick with the Dr. you have, knowing that within a month you will receive a protocol of injection testosterone. Meanwhile, the Testim will either again prove to not work, or will work, but likely eventually cause you to return to the state you are in currently. But my two concerns with this route would be:
ONE: that the two tubes per day would either increase your testosterone into an acceptable range but not produce noticeable benefits, or as I mentioned before, the Testim will work, however, after a while you will slowly regress into the state that you are currently, leaving you standing in the same shoes you are in today months or however long from now.
TWO: that by the sounds of what you have written, your doctor does not seem to have superior knowledge about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and so even if you do get on injectable testosterone, you would either not be given an optimal protocol, or have to educate your Dr.on what an optimal protocol is ie. injections once a week to even twice a week, potentially hCG, and likely and aromatase inhibitor.
2. the second route would be to seek out another source who either specializes in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or is more knowledgeable, for treatment.
NateDeezy,
Thanks for the info. I have not been successful in finding a doctor that specializes in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). They seem to be few and far between. Would you happen to have the names, both medically and commercially, of the medications you are recommending? The dosages as well? For example:
-200 mg Testosterone per week
- "X" mg of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) per (?)
-"X" of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) per (?)
At least this way I can go to a doc with a tentative plan for treatment if I can find a good testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialist. In additon, here are the numbers from my latest bloodwork:
T: 312
LH: 1.9
FSH: 2.5
Pro: 6.8
PS: .6
AST: 20
ALT: 43
Alkaline: 40
Billirubine Direct: .24
Billirubine Total: 1
Al serum: 4.8
Pro Serum: 7.3
After a month of (2) Testim tubes per day, we are going to do the bloodwork again and add in the E2 levels. In the meantime, I think I need to keep looking for a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) specialist.
Thanks everyone for your concern and continued questions and advice. This seems to be a lonely road and I'm glad I have this resource. Can't imagine what life was like before internet.
Everyone is different, so the dosage for each will probably vary based on how you feel. I know many people on here have success dosing testosterone cypionate at anywhere from approx 100-200mg/ wk in the form of either 1 dose or split up into 2 spaced out within the week. In terms of hCG, I admittedly don't know a good dosing routine and know many people dose it many ways, and the same goes with AI's there are any different dosing routines, which vary on how your body responds to the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), but I know a common one is arimidex or aromasin. If you search this forum you can find people who have found success and discuss their protocol, which will certainly be helpful to you.
Two things though, everyone is different, some find they don't experience symptoms of High E2 and therefore don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), this is usually the case for those who dose frequently enough (for example if you use 150mg/wk, and split in into (2) 75mg injections) because it limits the extreme fluctuations in both testosterone and estrogen, leading to more stable #'s. However, some will still need to use it no matter what their dosing schedule. Also be careful bc too low E2, which can occur if you use too much of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), can lead to similar symptoms as high E2. It's a balancing act ans that's why it is important to get blood work done, especially in the beginning, so you can dial yourself in to a dosing schedule that works best for you.
The next is about hCG. Your TT number was quite low before treatment, so you may be limited in what your natural production may be able to accomplish, thus, you may not need hCG, bcuz this helps maintain your natural production. However, you might find hCG + exogenous testosterone makes you feel better than just ex test and may want to use it. You see, it is all based on personal reaction.
Additionally, your LH and FSH seem to be a little low(I'd guess lower than before you started treatment), which indicates the shutting down of your natural production due to the Testim. The hCG would help prevent this.
Sorry I can't help you more with a recommended dosing schedule as I am not a doctor and don't wanna assume the risk that's involved haha. But like I said, do a little searching on here and you'll find what you need. I hope this helps.
Nate
Two things though, everyone is different, some find they don't experience symptoms of High E2 and therefore don't need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), this is usually the case for those who dose frequently enough (for example if you use 150mg/wk, and split in into (2) 75mg injections) because it limits the extreme fluctuations in both testosterone and estrogen, leading to more stable #'s. However, some will still need to use it no matter what their dosing schedule. Also be careful bc too low E2, which can occur if you use too much of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), can lead to similar symptoms as high E2. It's a balancing act ans that's why it is important to get blood work done, especially in the beginning, so you can dial yourself in to a dosing schedule that works best for you.
The next is about hCG. Your TT number was quite low before treatment, so you may be limited in what your natural production may be able to accomplish, thus, you may not need hCG, bcuz this helps maintain your natural production. However, you might find hCG + exogenous testosterone makes you feel better than just ex test and may want to use it. You see, it is all based on personal reaction.
Additionally, your LH and FSH seem to be a little low(I'd guess lower than before you started treatment), which indicates the shutting down of your natural production due to the Testim. The hCG would help prevent this.
Sorry I can't help you more with a recommended dosing schedule as I am not a doctor and don't wanna assume the risk that's involved haha. But like I said, do a little searching on here and you'll find what you need. I hope this helps.
Nate
Marcusregan
New member
Keep at it buddy, dealing with doctors can be a pain but keep pushing the issue. You're not a hypochondriac or schizophrenic, Your health and mental wellbeing is priority, if you feel like shit there's a reason for it.
I'm dealing with similar issues at present, 27, random bouts of depression, teary moments for no reason, been on a dozen (literally) ssri and snri drugs over the past 11 years for fatigue and severe anxiety, all useless. Could barely get my doc to give me a hormone screen and when it finally came back low t high e, refuses to refer me to an endo so new doc and repeat the process etc.. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is very taboo subject in australia apparently.
So yeah man keep at it, healthy diet, lots of gym, lots of rest and keep pursuing the course.
I'm dealing with similar issues at present, 27, random bouts of depression, teary moments for no reason, been on a dozen (literally) ssri and snri drugs over the past 11 years for fatigue and severe anxiety, all useless. Could barely get my doc to give me a hormone screen and when it finally came back low t high e, refuses to refer me to an endo so new doc and repeat the process etc.. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is very taboo subject in australia apparently.
So yeah man keep at it, healthy diet, lots of gym, lots of rest and keep pursuing the course.
WOW! What a great demonstration of how little some doctors know about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). That's no only horrible but scary too, why one Gods green Earth would he not even refer you to an endo when your testosterone was low and estrogen high? Like are we talking they were below the normal range indicated on the blood test? Cuz if so, that's F'd
Thanks for the comments. Its hard not to believe that its just in your head when you have to convince a bunch of docs that something is wrong with you and they fight back. They ask me if I'm functioning, and when I say yes, then they ask why I feel I need to do something about it. I tell them that its pure ambition and pride that keeps me functioning, but when I finish everything, I crash, feel horrible and sleep. Its really hard when you put a weak body with a strong mind because people dont really see the issue.
I definitely understand the crying issues, which is more of a recent issue for me, but it pales in comparison to the depression, anxiety and exhaustion. Sorry to hear your issues and docs are royal pains in the arse. It sucks when you cant get support at your toughest times. Thats why I like this forum so damn much. I have tried to keep up with the lifting and going to the gym, but with my mental and physical situation, it has been just short of impossible. Good luck to us all!!
Thnak you for your continued support and I will do as much research on the other medications as I can, but the lingo, data, possibilities and different cycles are so confusing that I don't know if I'm going to tackle that in the near future. The more I read on this forum, the more informed I get and the more confused I get.....
Well I have been on (2) tubes of Testim for a few days now and things are starting to change. The pros are that I'm not nearly as exhausted, my drive is picking up and the anxiety and depression are lifting. If I had to put it on a scale from 1-10, with 1 being dead and 10 being Superman, I would say that I have gone from a 2 to a 5. I'm at a point where I could live, but it is definitely not optimal. Tomorrow I visit the endo and I will bring the ideas shared here on this forum to light in my appointment. She will probably be resistant to my research, but hopefully something sinks in.
Now for the cons. My ED has not gotten better and my blood pressure is still up around 150/90. I have given up coffee, soda, salty foods and I'm going to push hard to lose excess weight. I'm still not sold that this is a primary case of Hypogonadism, but the doctors have not found anything that has caused my low T. It's funny that my singular focus in all of this is to get my ED taken care of, but I think that is a typical guy response and not one that my doctor is most focused on at this time. I've got a precscription for Cialis, but they will only give me four pills a month at a charge of $50. I could g through that many in a week or so, but now I have to make calendar appointments to have sex and its absolutely ridiculous.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Now for the cons. My ED has not gotten better and my blood pressure is still up around 150/90. I have given up coffee, soda, salty foods and I'm going to push hard to lose excess weight. I'm still not sold that this is a primary case of Hypogonadism, but the doctors have not found anything that has caused my low T. It's funny that my singular focus in all of this is to get my ED taken care of, but I think that is a typical guy response and not one that my doctor is most focused on at this time. I've got a precscription for Cialis, but they will only give me four pills a month at a charge of $50. I could g through that many in a week or so, but now I have to make calendar appointments to have sex and its absolutely ridiculous.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
you might have luck getting your sex drive back with injections, although admiteddly I don't know much about TRT's effect on sex drive. All I know is it increases for some, and for others it doesn't. Not advocating it, but I'd guess injecting a high amount one time would have you wanting to jump on anything you see, but that's just a guess
I have a question that I forgot to ask, so mentally you wanna have sex but you just can't get a hard on or what exactly is going on?
I'm led to believe that testosterone alone isn't the sole contributor to sex drive, as there have been many people on here who say they have a good sex drive despite having low T
I'm led to believe that testosterone alone isn't the sole contributor to sex drive, as there have been many people on here who say they have a good sex drive despite having low T
A few weeks on two tubes a day of Testim. The crap is messy, sticky and a complete freaking hassle.....and on top of all of that..... things have gone from bad to worse. I'm incredibly depressed, I can't get a hard on at all....EVER!! My energy is barely tolerable and my anxiety is back to unbearable levels. I felt better for 6 days and then it was all taken away from me once again as the meds seemed to stop working. I know all the typical responses about the fact that my natural production has stopped and I should give it time and blah...blah....blah! Screw all that, I'm done. I can't take this crap anymore and I'm done fighting. If this is the way that I'm going to feel the rest of my life, I just choose not to live that way. The endo wants me to keep this up for a few more weeks and I'm off to see the urologist for yet another doctors appointment. I have been seeing doctors for almost two years now and it is all a false economy to keep the doctors and pharmaceuticals rich while doing absolutely nothing for the patients. They don't listen and they don't care. To add salt to the wound, the Cialis has even stopped working and I can't be with my girl depsite the desire to be. Its all a f-ed up game.
I'm done!!!!
I'm done!!!!
HumbleMuscle
New member
Hey man you sound really unstable right now...I think you may be scaring people off because you sound so desperate...maybe Im taking it wrong but it sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist instead of an endo...or maybe you do need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as well...just chill out brother...I know its easier said than done but try to relax...I dont know maybe im reading into it to much but you sounded very unstable in your posts...have you talked to a psychiatrist about your deppression? You do have other options than having to go to doctor visits...give the guys at Increase My T a call...they can straighten you out
on your testosterone problem but I really do suggest you see a psychiatrist as well...I think you have to have 10 posts to PM or something like that so post a few more times and then PM me and I will get you in touch with the right people...Good Luck
on your testosterone problem but I really do suggest you see a psychiatrist as well...I think you have to have 10 posts to PM or something like that so post a few more times and then PM me and I will get you in touch with the right people...Good Luck
Ok, I understand how you may view my post, and I appreciate the feedback, but I am not unstable. The difference between out of control mental health pateints and those suffering symptoms of a difficult health concern, is self control and mental strength. I have these symptoms of anxiety and depression, but I am smart enough and strong enough to realize that it is a direct product of the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and not who I am as a person. When my Testosterone numbers come back up, I feel great and there are no concerns. When my numbers are low, like when I was in the 180's, everything seems so somber. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and the doctors inability to have an ounce of empathy have made things incredibly worse. Energy, libido, ED and some depression were the main concerns prior to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), but now, the anxiety, depression and ED have spiraled out of control. Before trying testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), at least I could still "act" like a man when I needed to, but now that doesn't even work. Its like rubbing salt in the wounds.
Imagine you have health concerns for two years, see countless doctors and finally find a solution. You start working towards this solution for it to fail you after a few days. You saw the light, but it was ripped out of your hands. You spend a horrendous amount of time devoted to this problem and the research, act patiently as your ignorant doctors ask you to follow a protocol and, just when you have a possible answer, they call you a "roid-chaser" and a "muscle-head." Really, 200 mg of T-cyp/week makes me a "roid chasing, muscle head?" YOU HAVE MY DAMN TEST RESULTS!! Now I'm left picking up the pieces, I don't feel like a man, I can't "act" like a man, I can't do my job and life has no happiness. Does that mean that I'm going to off myself? No it means that I'm completely fed up and nowlooking to take care of the problem myself. Then I try to find out how I can take my health into my own hands and I can't even figure that out. It's like being trapped in a room with the walls closing in on you and no way out.
Now please, understand that I am yelling at my situation and not at you. I appreciate your time, feedback, responses and offer to help. Its just that I need to find answers now and my patience has run out. If I scared people off, then that is my fault, but maybe someone else will find consolation in the fact that someone feels the same way they do. btw, Yes, I met with a Psychiatrist for about a year. She said that she does not think that I am depressed or anxious from neurological standards, but that it is a direct result of my Low-T. She said her husband suffered similar problems and anti-depressents and anti-anxiety meds only made things worse. I convinced her to let me try a prescription and she was right, it only made me worse.
Thanks......
Miller98b:
Let me first say, this is only a small phase in your entire life. It may seem very frustrating right now, but in reality, getting worked up about it, will not help you or your situation but rather will only lead to irrational thinking and decisions. So, I know that right now it sucks, but imagine back to how you felt when treatment was going well and understand that you can again achieve this. Life can be full of ups and downs and right now, let's be honest you're at a down point, but again, being pissed and letting it make you madder and madder isn't helping anything-which I know deep down you too know.
Here's, in my opinion, the problem. Gels have proven to not work for many people for many reasons. Whether your body is not absorbing it well, or it is aromatasing the testosterone gel and turning it in to estrogen, or both, or even a mechanism that science has yet to pinpoint, I don't know. The point is, this method of therapy isn't working. So, you have some options, you can continue care with your current doctor by either riding out the next 2 weeks and switching or you can walk into his office today and explain exactly how you are feeling and ask to be switched. Or you can find another treatment source. As the poster above mentioned, you can contact IMT and likely, if you call, you can talk to someone today and get started on a treatment plan as soon as possible with a group of individuals who specialize in this area of study and will get you on the best treatment plan possible. Personally, I would ask your doctor what treatment plan he is planning on using in 2 weeks (which likely should include injections at least once a week, hCG, and an AI-or soemthing similar to this), and if his plan doesn't seem like the best option, find something else. I will say that having to fight for proper treatment is likely a red flag that the doctor isn't well knowledged in TRT. But either way, I'd talk to IMT just to see what they say, then speak to your doctor and if your doctor opposes what IMT tells you, I'd say you likely would be better off seeking treatment with IMT as continuing with your current doctor who seem like an ongoing experiment until you find a solution, which who knows how long this could be.
Either way, please try your best to not to be discouraged, as it doesn't do you any good, or anyone you come in contact with either LOL. Best of luck on your recovery, but know that you're not alone with how you feel and you WILL feel better and will live a great life filled with immense well-being when you find proper treatment, and these feeling you are having now will be only a past memory!
Let me first say, this is only a small phase in your entire life. It may seem very frustrating right now, but in reality, getting worked up about it, will not help you or your situation but rather will only lead to irrational thinking and decisions. So, I know that right now it sucks, but imagine back to how you felt when treatment was going well and understand that you can again achieve this. Life can be full of ups and downs and right now, let's be honest you're at a down point, but again, being pissed and letting it make you madder and madder isn't helping anything-which I know deep down you too know.
Here's, in my opinion, the problem. Gels have proven to not work for many people for many reasons. Whether your body is not absorbing it well, or it is aromatasing the testosterone gel and turning it in to estrogen, or both, or even a mechanism that science has yet to pinpoint, I don't know. The point is, this method of therapy isn't working. So, you have some options, you can continue care with your current doctor by either riding out the next 2 weeks and switching or you can walk into his office today and explain exactly how you are feeling and ask to be switched. Or you can find another treatment source. As the poster above mentioned, you can contact IMT and likely, if you call, you can talk to someone today and get started on a treatment plan as soon as possible with a group of individuals who specialize in this area of study and will get you on the best treatment plan possible. Personally, I would ask your doctor what treatment plan he is planning on using in 2 weeks (which likely should include injections at least once a week, hCG, and an AI-or soemthing similar to this), and if his plan doesn't seem like the best option, find something else. I will say that having to fight for proper treatment is likely a red flag that the doctor isn't well knowledged in TRT. But either way, I'd talk to IMT just to see what they say, then speak to your doctor and if your doctor opposes what IMT tells you, I'd say you likely would be better off seeking treatment with IMT as continuing with your current doctor who seem like an ongoing experiment until you find a solution, which who knows how long this could be.
Either way, please try your best to not to be discouraged, as it doesn't do you any good, or anyone you come in contact with either LOL. Best of luck on your recovery, but know that you're not alone with how you feel and you WILL feel better and will live a great life filled with immense well-being when you find proper treatment, and these feeling you are having now will be only a past memory!
I hear ya. I'm a person that tackles issues and has very little patience for inefficiency. This entire process has been a model for how not to diagnose, treat and follow up on an issue. I have already called and e-mailed in my paperwork for IMT. I also demanded an appointment with my doctor for Thursday and a redo of the bloodwork immediately as opposed to later. If anyone reads this thread, and is looking for advice, I would say that it is imperative that you become an advocate for yourself earlier rather than later. Waiting for the doctors to find something or make the right choice for your health is not always a good option. With the internet, some patients can be more informed on issues, but the doctors pride gets in the way. Doctors can help slow us down and make us take the right steps, but typically, you know when things are off and need addressing.
That all being said, I'm not insane, I'm just fed up. I always fight the good fight, but sometimes I need to vent. Peace!
Last edited:
Megatron28
Moderator
Nate hit on the crux of the matter. Think back to the time when the treatment was making you feel better. He's right, you can get back to that feeling again. You just need to get your protocol figured out and dialed in. Get of the cream/gel and start doing test cyp injections. Monitor your estrogen (E2) and take and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) if needed. And learn as much as you possibly can about trt. This forum is a great resource. Finally, recognize that it can take two to six weeks before you start noticing the effects of trt. Oh, and start ordering your own lab work on privatemdlabs. Take control of your situation and let your doctors know that you are going to be involved in determining your treatment plan. You goal should be to know more about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) than they do.
Yeah, as I said before, I hear ya and I appreciate all the feedback. I don't come on this site to ignore good advice. To tell you the truth, a few things have made all the difference. I'm a person that gets things done and finds solutions. When I felt like I had no avenue to resolve this problem, I just cracked and that is where the most recent "unstable" post came from. After two years of following the doctors leads, I was tired of wasting my life feeling like crap. It was two years that felt like they went down the drain. My wife cheated on me, I had to get divorced and sell my house. I lost my job, my car and all of my savings. This was the direct result of these T problems (and a cheating wife of course).
Well, now I have reached out to a great organization recomended on this site and my new protocol is established. I'm looking forward to taking my health into my own hands and I'm looking forward to some positive changes.
That being said, I am having some side effects of what I believe are a particular hormone imbalance. If anyone has any ideas what thsi may be, I would greatly appreciate it. I have these random heat flashes and also, I'm having these surges of hormones that make me feel nauseous, dizzy and seem to suck the energy out of me. I feel depressed and like I wanna cry. In addition, I can't get an "activity" from somewhere in particular and it seems like there is a major hormonal imablance occuring. The doctors have checked me from head-to-toe and have found no tumors, cancers, etc.
Thanks everyone.....
Your estrogen is fubar. An Aromatase inhibitor (AI), even the liquidex from RUI will help. Don't give up. I am working through my chalanges too and have an appt with a highly recommended doc and have IMT paperwork sitting in my inbox if I don't get the answers I am looking for from the doc. Hang tough.