Megatron28
Moderator
Like I said, I recommend that you get the "Female Hormone Panel" which is also for men despite its name. Here is a coupon code to save you 15%.
as5egrs6
My continuing journey
- Thread starter miller98b
- Start date
Like I said, I recommend that you get the "Female Hormone Panel" which is also for men despite its name. Here is a coupon code to save you 15%.
as5egrs6
Thanks Mega, I will get that done. I'm not too sure that anyone can speak to this, but I'm always looking for other sources of information rearding my conditions. The reason that I am still listening to others input, is that I'm not feeling as good as I had hoped I would be on my new protocol and I'm starting to get concerned that I'm heading down the wrong path and with bad side effects. So this weekend, I was talking to a Chiroproctor who is studying to be a functional neurologist and he had a lot to say about my condition. He asked me to come in for a visit, but he said he doesn't think I am primary hypogonadism, but secondary. He said that he believes that my Sympathetic Nervous System is not in control, hence I am in the "fight-or-flight" mode all the time. He believes that this has caused the imbalance in my hormones and that if I addressed the issues from that source, that my T would come back and I would be much happier. His interpretation of my symptoms involved the fact that my aderenaline is too high, it cause my other hormones to respond and my body to go nuts. Magnesium is flushed out due to the adrenaline un-functionality and calcium takes center stage, like the potassium/salt battle in our bodies, leading to high BP as well. In addition, he said that if my ED has not gone away yet, that the T was not the problem, but the Sympathetic systems constant state of alertness. The Doc mentioned that the Sympathetic system and Para-sympathetic system work in conjunction and if one is out of whack, then the other is out of whack. When those two things are out of whack, the boy stops working. He said that we would need to get a bunch of blood tests to find out exactly, but that he could help me treat that condition as opposed to the low-T.
His explanation is the first one that accounts for all sysmpotoms together; including the elusive high BP that no one has been able to explain. To limit these hormones, the hypothalamus, pituatary, and adrenals go into a craze and all systems start shutting down due to the stress. He said it's like driving a car in the red-zone of RPM's and that all systems will eventually fail.
Another eason I take his advice to heart is that he was actually on T as he was a professional body builder and he said that you know when T is working for you and, based on my hope for improvement, he doesnt believe that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is my best option. I've been coming at this from the angle that my T shutdown and that is what caused my depression, exhaustion, anxiety, ED, dizziness, headaches, irritability, anxiety and so forth. He feels that I have it backwards and that I need to take a look at the section of my brain called the mesencephalon.
Can anyone speak to any of this or is it all hogwash?
Megatron28
Moderator
I personally kind of feel like chiropractors are a bunch of quacks. I'm sure that will offend lots of people. If I were you I would ask him how many visits with him it is going to take to "cure" you. My guess is it is going to be about how many your insurance will cover. And ask him to show you a peer reviewed medical study that has been published supporting all his grandiose theories. I can tell you that my Endo could when I asked him for support for what he was telling me. Sounds like this guy is just telling you what you want to hear.
You have been on your new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol for about two weeks now. You need to give things time to work. This is just your anxiety fucking with your head. Stay the course and let IMT guide you.
And get treated for your depression. Whether a medication, fish oil or cognitive therapy or whatever. I don't know if you were depressed first or if your low-T symptoms caused you to get depressed or a little of both. Regardless, sometimes you need a little help to "break" the depression cycle and help clear your head so you can start feeling good about life again.
You have been on your new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol for about two weeks now. You need to give things time to work. This is just your anxiety fucking with your head. Stay the course and let IMT guide you.
And get treated for your depression. Whether a medication, fish oil or cognitive therapy or whatever. I don't know if you were depressed first or if your low-T symptoms caused you to get depressed or a little of both. Regardless, sometimes you need a little help to "break" the depression cycle and help clear your head so you can start feeling good about life again.
Megatron, I'm there with you. I'm looking down every dark alley and turning over every stone. The chiropractors with a more Eastern approach to medicine garner my attention as I believe the far east medical system has some undervalued knowledge; and some ridiculous "medicine" as well. Here is what I agree with though.....my sympathetic nervous system is on overdrive as I constantly feel anxious. I'm not sure if that is due to my Low-T or if my Low-T was a symptom of system failures due to stress, anxiety, weight gain inactivity due to exhaustion....a spiraling mess that looks like a snake eating its tail. The SNS works with the Parasympathetic NS and when those are out of balance, all systems start to fail. The hypothalamus goes whacky, the adrenals go bazerck, the blood goes acidic and so on and so on. The problem is finding out if you are treating the cause or the symptom. I may be depressed, and I have started taking CQ10, magnesium, Vitamin-B, Vitamin-D, fish oil and a multivitamin. Treating my Low-T may be treating a symptom, but at least I am stopping the process before the Low-T does its own damage; assuming its a symptom and not the cause.
With regards to my progress, it has defeintily been a gradual change. I started my protocol, from what my calendar states, on December 29th. Since then, the major change has been the exhaustion and lethargy. I'm not constantly sleeping and I'm even waking up after 5-6 hours refreshed and ready to go. I guess my body doesn't need as much sleep after such a drought due to insomnia. I'm going to try to get at least 6-8 per night, but that may be a gradual increase. Other changes include having the want to get back in the gym and I have signed on at a big name gym, been working out over the past 10 days and the workouts are more amazing than I ever imagined. I was a professional football player and I've never had the recovery, energy and stamina that I have in these gym these days. I don't fail when I used to, I recover so quickly after sets and at the conclusion of my workout and the soreness last 24-36 hours instead of the 48+ that it used to last. My "gloominess" is still there, but that may change in time or, as Megatron stated, maybe I do have some underlying depression on top of my myriad of problems. I went on anti-depressents once before and I'm not sure I'll ever do that again, but I can lose some weight, go out more, due to higher energy levels and I think that will gradually improve my quality of life until the depression improves; if depression is in fact a part of my scenario.
Finally, the ED. That has not improved and the big guy is still saluting at half mast with very little activity. If I take a few days off from the S-Other and get my self revved up, he will show up for a short time, but that is all. The return of the MWood was short lived, but it was nice to know that it could in fact happen. The chirpractor did state that an erection occurs only if the very complicated balance between the Sympathetic NS and the Parasympathetic NS is present. I'm guessing this could be a possible option to further investigate, but treatment for something like this is limited. Some meds work, some holisitic approaches are said to work, but exercise, water, magnesium and breathing/mental exercises are said to be most effective. I want to be off all meds by the spring, so I am not going to start asking doctors for help unless something serious is wrong.
This is my journey........
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Megatron28
Moderator
What league did you play pro football in?
The theory on morning wood is that it is associated with REM sleep. You get a woody during REM -- even little boys. So if you are not sleeping well you may have a hard time getting into the REM stage and thus no morning wood when you wake up. But sounds like scientists don't fully understand it all.
The theory on morning wood is that it is associated with REM sleep. You get a woody during REM -- even little boys. So if you are not sleeping well you may have a hard time getting into the REM stage and thus no morning wood when you wake up. But sounds like scientists don't fully understand it all.
Sorry, not NFL football, but college ball. I was trying to say that I lifted like it was my job and not just recreationally. My greatest accomplishment was making it into one of the college football video games
Now for an update. I'm starting to regress. I'm getting bloodwork done Thursday to see what is going on, but I've had very little effects from a fairly advanced protocol. The labs are going to test a full female panel, T, potassium and Cortisol. Half of these tests I have never had and I hoping something comes of it. I'm wondering if there are other things to look into like Thyroid tests, SHBG, DHEA, Iron and so forth, but the docs just wont test for anymore things and I can't afford "shot-in-the-dark tests" from private labs after this latest round.
For the bad stuff.......The acne around my arms and body is really anoying and causing me some body awareness issues around my girl. I've never had a touch of acne, but now its running at a 6 on a scale from 1-10. Not horrible, but not fun. My energy is slowly dying back down, but I never really hit the "honey spot" that I was looking for with this protocol. I wasnt being unrealistic either, I was just hoping to not feel so sleepy all the time and staring off into space at work. I felt better for a while, but slowly, the tiredness is creeping back. I'm sleeping and working out. I'm eating well and de-stressing wherever I can in life. My erections, libido and MW are non-existent and the endo stated that I will forever have his issue and that I should be on Cialis everyday for the rest of my life :') I feel way too young for that to be a lifelong struggle and I really think there is an underlying issue that I/doctors have never found. Anxiety and lethargy are still major concerns.
So tired, but still in the fight. I'll touch base after my bloodwork.
And yes, I started my protocol on the 29th of December, I know it may take up to 10 weeks to feel "full" effects. Here's to hoping for even some of the effects.
SolomonGrundy
Grrr...tren Good
you need some Aromatase inhibitor (AI) meds stat!
I just started astrolozone (sp?) today. How much is a good start dosage wise? How bad is my E levels? I know its twice the highest range but im guessing its bad enough that it should be the reason for my lack of improvement or should i continue to look for other causes like depression, seratinon,dopamine or other chemical/hormonal imbalances?
P.S. this site has single handidly saved my life!!!!!!!!
Megatron28
Moderator
If you are taking 100 mg of test every three days I would try .25mg of anastrozole every 3 days as well. Take it when you inject. Get blood work again in two or three weeks and see if that is enough to bring your E2 under control. Some guys take .25mg of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) three times a week. I would start with the lower dose though and increase if needed. Anastrozole is pretty powerful stuff. And having your E too low is no fun.
Megatron, thanks for your continued support.
So, I talked to my doctor and they said I should change up my protocol. They were thinking instead of my current protocol of 100 mg of T-cyp E3D with 500 HCG E5D and no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), that I should switch to 500 of HCG two days prior to each 150 mg T-injection E5D with .5 mg Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the day after or the day of each T injection. Thoughts?
P.S. This may not be something most guys want to share, but if you live through what some of us have lived through, the following information is like the birth of a child......Two days in a row of MW this weekend!!! God, I hope that change continues.
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Megatron28
Moderator
I thought you were looking pretty good before -- you just needed some Aromatase inhibitor (AI). But who am I to question the people with the medical degrees. That new protocol might work. It has you on about the same amount Test if you look over a 10 day period. Just watch for the side effects of high and low estradiol to make sure you are in range and get lab tests. One concern I would have is that the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is going to wear off quite a bit over 5 days. It may be better to take .25mg twice over the 5 days so you don't roller coaster as much.
Holy crap, my e2 was 61 and I felt horrible. I found that even with 1100 test numbers, I felt worse than when I was 302 when my E2 was high. I have lab results coming in from a very highly regarded Endo here locally. Several frineds see him. I went from doing 200 mg e 14 days in June to 200 every week to 100 every week to 50 Friday and 50 on Tuesday. With 50 twice a week, my Acne has cleared and I feel much better than before.
My wife and I have always had a great sex life, ( 1-3 times a day everyday when I am home, I travel 3-4 days a week as a pilot) but when my E2 was high I felt like I was forcing myself. I had no help from my doc other than writing a script for 200mg every 2 weeks. I learned from here and talking to Buds on HRT and unfortunately played around and went by feel. For now I feel pretty freaking good on lower dose/ more frequent injections. My test results might read differently then I expect but whatever they say I know I feel much better today then I have in a while and I take only Test Cyp and daily vitamins, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) no HCG. I am 43, 6'0 and 195 pounds. Not as lean as I want to be but I look pretty damned good with my shirt off vs. June of last year. Also airport food is rough on a diet.
Hang tough and don't give up.
My wife and I have always had a great sex life, ( 1-3 times a day everyday when I am home, I travel 3-4 days a week as a pilot) but when my E2 was high I felt like I was forcing myself. I had no help from my doc other than writing a script for 200mg every 2 weeks. I learned from here and talking to Buds on HRT and unfortunately played around and went by feel. For now I feel pretty freaking good on lower dose/ more frequent injections. My test results might read differently then I expect but whatever they say I know I feel much better today then I have in a while and I take only Test Cyp and daily vitamins, no Aromatase inhibitor (AI) no HCG. I am 43, 6'0 and 195 pounds. Not as lean as I want to be but I look pretty damned good with my shirt off vs. June of last year. Also airport food is rough on a diet.
Hang tough and don't give up.
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
Thats awesome your feeling good man.
Not everyone needs an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) but eventually everyone needs Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as long as they are not estro prone from it. After a while the suppression shuts down the boys so much that when you go its like a cough and dust comes out, needless to say it is not nearly as satisfying. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) can bring back sensitivity that is lost. Most of the guys I know that have been around 20 years say Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is the best hormone since testosterone, I do agree.
If it ain't broke don't fix it, but things are constantly changing with my regimen over the years. It would be nice if it was like everyone says and once you find it things will always be the same, it takes constant adjustment to keep things going smoothly, and to stay happy.
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THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
This is the right move. The Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will make a huge difference. Also if your waiting longer between injections your E will fall to an even lower point.
If the .5mg doesn't bring your E under 50 than 1mg will.
I agree. I have made the call to you guys and your forms are in my inbox. Just waiting to get my results back from my Endo here locally. So far I am pretty happy with what he has told me. Not a surprise, it is nearly word for word what you and I talked about on the phone a while back.
DET-OAK, Mega and Dalpilot,
Thanks for your feedback and comments. Its always great to have the help. I have to say that I'm not feeling any better. Yesterday was my first T shot on the new protocol of 150 E5D. It was also the second time that I have taken .5 mg of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) alongside my injection. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was taken two days prior to that. I still don't feel any better, but I imagine it may take some time for the E to come down?
Overall, in context of my entire two-year ordeal, I am not as tired and not as anxious, but even though I'm awake, I still feel sluggish and the libido is exactly as Dalpilot mentioned; forced. I love my SO and find her attractive, but if it was completely up to me, I would rather lay in bed and watch TV then knock one out. That is not like me!!
Also, I'm not depressed, but I feel depressed.
So here is where I am:
1. I might need to look at my Seratonin levels and dopamine levels. Ritalin, Luvox, 5HTP and GABA were mentioned, but after research, I'm not sure that I'm comfortable just yet with those possibilities.
2. I may just need to wait a little longer for my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to take effect and to dial in my protocol.
3. If my libido doesn't come back soon, my girl might think I joined the other team as the catcher....because at this rate, I can't pitch to save my life.
4. Adrenal fatigue possibilities.
Thanks for your feedback and comments. Its always great to have the help. I have to say that I'm not feeling any better. Yesterday was my first T shot on the new protocol of 150 E5D. It was also the second time that I have taken .5 mg of Aromatase inhibitor (AI) alongside my injection. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was taken two days prior to that. I still don't feel any better, but I imagine it may take some time for the E to come down?
Overall, in context of my entire two-year ordeal, I am not as tired and not as anxious, but even though I'm awake, I still feel sluggish and the libido is exactly as Dalpilot mentioned; forced. I love my SO and find her attractive, but if it was completely up to me, I would rather lay in bed and watch TV then knock one out. That is not like me!!
Also, I'm not depressed, but I feel depressed.
So here is where I am:
1. I might need to look at my Seratonin levels and dopamine levels. Ritalin, Luvox, 5HTP and GABA were mentioned, but after research, I'm not sure that I'm comfortable just yet with those possibilities.
2. I may just need to wait a little longer for my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to take effect and to dial in my protocol.
3. If my libido doesn't come back soon, my girl might think I joined the other team as the catcher....because at this rate, I can't pitch to save my life.
4. Adrenal fatigue possibilities.
No idea what this means.
Something new everyday. So, my T-cyp "crashed" and turned into a big yellow glob. I did some research and people said that you can keep it in "almost" boiling water for about 20 minutes and when it is thoroughly mixed again, it is good to use. I'm a little worried about that possibility. When you look into the vial, it looks like it is full of little threads, like fiberglass, and I'm just concerned that as soon as I inject it will crash in my muscle and cause problems or not absorb. Anyone dealt with this before. I also didn't allow it to cool long enough, but it was a cold day and the warm liquid in my leg was awesome.
Update on protocol. I started increasing my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and last Friday was no bueno! I was so anxious and I was positive that everything was going to crap. In my head, my girl was cheating on me, I was going to be fired, my house was going to burn down, I had cancer and that the world was probably changing. Luckily, I was smart enough to see that it was most likely the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) increase, but I'm still worried about keeping my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) higher in case it causes the same symptoms. I'm currently taking .5 mg E3D. My doc stated that sometimes you can feel better by backing down your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage or by even increasing your dosage. The PRIMARY lesson I am learning right now is that I need to be patient with this whole thing as it doesn't happen overnight. After telling myself for the past two weeks that this isn't working, I realized that I have only been on this rollercoaster for five weeks and I need to give it time to work. It's tough not knowing if it is working, but there is a secondary problem like seratonin, dopamine, ADD, depression, anxiety, adrenal fatigue, etc.
Does anyone have an experience similar to this and how did you proceed? Does anyone know if I should explore anti-depressents, luvox, ritalin, aderol, 5HTP, Gaba or other avenues or should I give the T and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the full ten weeks to work first? I also read that T-cyp can have different effects compared to other T solutions and that switchoing could make a difference. I've read all the threads here and in other places and, once again, the opinions are so varied and nowhere near consistant.
Thanks guys.
Update on protocol. I started increasing my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and last Friday was no bueno! I was so anxious and I was positive that everything was going to crap. In my head, my girl was cheating on me, I was going to be fired, my house was going to burn down, I had cancer and that the world was probably changing. Luckily, I was smart enough to see that it was most likely the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) increase, but I'm still worried about keeping my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) higher in case it causes the same symptoms. I'm currently taking .5 mg E3D. My doc stated that sometimes you can feel better by backing down your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage or by even increasing your dosage. The PRIMARY lesson I am learning right now is that I need to be patient with this whole thing as it doesn't happen overnight. After telling myself for the past two weeks that this isn't working, I realized that I have only been on this rollercoaster for five weeks and I need to give it time to work. It's tough not knowing if it is working, but there is a secondary problem like seratonin, dopamine, ADD, depression, anxiety, adrenal fatigue, etc.
Does anyone have an experience similar to this and how did you proceed? Does anyone know if I should explore anti-depressents, luvox, ritalin, aderol, 5HTP, Gaba or other avenues or should I give the T and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) the full ten weeks to work first? I also read that T-cyp can have different effects compared to other T solutions and that switchoing could make a difference. I've read all the threads here and in other places and, once again, the opinions are so varied and nowhere near consistant.
Thanks guys.