My first cycle (Don't hate)

[TheBeast17]

Hi all, im a long time reader and a new member of the site. First I'll post some stats so I don't get flamed right away. I am 27 years old, 5'11 and weigh 198 and my BF is around 14-16%. I have been working out since I was 18 years old and have had a strict diet for about 2 years, took me a while, as I am a Paramedic and work 24/48, so things can be a little hard to manage diet wise. I have done plenty of research on AAS and have also read ALOT of controversial posts. I have a few options for my first cycle, I currently have a 4 week supply of Dbol, 50mg tabs, a 10 week supply of Test E 500mg EW, and also have DECA 400mg EW for 10 weeks. Deca is out of the question at this time as I will not overload my body and this is my first cycle so I will save it for the future. Now this is where I need some help. I am debating if I should Run a Test E Cycle 500mg EW for 10 weeks, and kick start it with the Dbol for 4 weeks at 50mg ED. But, a good friend of mine and personal trainer who competed back in his days, and trained with arnold in his 20's and is a 39 year veteran of the sport(yea yea i'm a liar, the guy has pics and its cool as shit!) Advised me to run Dbol only for 4 weeks at 50mg a day, to see how my body will react to AAS and it is all my body will need as I am still young and full of Test.

What are your opinions? Would like to hear from you guys if you have Dbol only cycle experiences and Dbol Test experiences. BTW i forgot to say, I do have my PCT ready, have plenty of Nolva and Clomid on hand.

 

[pikiki]

NO TO ORAL ONLY CYCLES. If you got the test do a test only cycle first but if want to throw the D-bol don`t see why not casue a lot of guy has done it with good results. Doses look ok on Test and D-bol but best shot Test only fisrt.

 

[clsmth700]

I agree with Piki , test only a great first cycle

you can do test only cycle and see how you respond , not worth shutting down for a few weeks of d-bol

You could also do a little less test per week @ 400mg and run for 12 weeks

do you have PCT ?

 

[josequervo]

ok so this is my first cycle will start it in 2 weeks gonna do 10weeks total .first 2 weeks test p at 500mg each week an 200mg of test e then weeks3 thru 7 400mg of test ethen 8 thru 10 250mg each week to taper off an which is better to take the nolvadex or arimidex?lemme know what u guys think for first time.

 

[badman77]

clsmth700 hes already said that he has nolvadex and clomid to hand but IMO 4 weeks kick start with d bol and 500mg test enanthate pw for 10-12 weeks is a good starting point assuming the person has researched the dangers of not cycling properly and side effects of aas

 

[badman77]

is this your 1st cycle?

 

[badman77]

ok so this is my first cycle will start it in 2 weeks gonna do 10weeks total .first 2 weeks test p at 500mg each week an 200mg of test e then weeks3 thru 7 400mg of test ethen 8 thru 10 250mg each week to taper off an which is better to take the nolvadex or arimidex?lemme know what u guys think for first time.

is this your 1st cycle mate?

 

[XxxMadMaxxX]

First cycle ....Then I would just stick to Test bro! And if you absolutely insist on throwing in some dbol to kick start, then I would suggest starting at 25mg then Increase dosage to 50mg as needed. Remeber dbol will increase your BP and you need to have Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in hand such as adex or aromasin to battle sides.

Good luck Man!

 

[justin h]

My test only first cycle (4th week) is fucking amazing thus far. Everyone including myself can clearly see the difference, I'm glad I opted for not kick-starting with d-bol. Theirs really no need and it would've for sure raised alot of eyebrows.
Oh yeah...and don't taper off at the end.. If anything I'd raise to 6 or 7 for the last pin.

 

[TheBeast17]

Sounds good, thanks for all of the replys, I will most likely run 500mg test EW for 10 weeks, and I might kickstart it with the Dbol at 50mg ED for 4 wks. Now, for a cycle like this, would Nolva only be good 2 weeks after last Test pin, 40/40/20/20?

 

[badman77]

Sounds good, thanks for all of the replys, I will most likely run 500mg test EW for 10 weeks, and I might kickstart it with the Dbol at 50mg ED for 4 wks. Now, for a cycle like this, would Nolva only be good 2 weeks after last Test pin, 40/40/20/20?

nolvadex is more for if you get gyno... i use clomid as it helps get your natural test levels back to were they should be otherwise youll shut down pretty bad ialso use milk thistle all the way threw a cycle as it helps to clense and protect the liver me myself i use clomid and nolvadex 2 weeks after i finish test and i have never had a problem (touch wood) with side effects gyno acne or anything

 

[josequervo]

Yea this first one.

 

[josequervo]

But how the fuck u gettin clomid i gotno prob gettin gear but my guy aint got no post cycle therapy (pct) shit or anti gyno stuff an aint wanting to start with nothing

 

[VengeanceX7]

But how the fuck u gettin clomid i gotno prob gettin gear but my guy aint got no post cycle therapy (pct) shit or anti gyno stuff an aint wanting to start with nothing

Sponsor with the lion logo. ^^^

 

[TheBeast17]

I'm not sure if you know something I don't but if you do correct me.

"Clomid and Nolvadex


I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side."



This was for badman77, I failed with the reply..

 

[clsmth700]

clsmth700 hes already said that he has nolvadex and clomid to hand but

i think he actually edited the post after i asked him

but also he didnt lay it out

 

[badman77]

I'm not sure if you know something I don't but if you do correct me.

"Clomid and Nolvadex


I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side."



This was for badman77, I failed with the reply..

hi sorry for slow reply ive been away on holiday.im no doctor to be honest but from what i have researched there is a difference what there medical uses are and doses as shown in your example to maintain a rivaled effect (for bodybuilders increasing theyre test levels)to nolvadex ,clomid had to be dosed at 150mg as oposed to nolvas 20mg which shows their chemical structors are different.nolvadex medical uses are for treament for things like gynecomastia,liver cancer ,breast cancer ... were as clomid is used more for fertility treament in women also cancers but usualy ovarian cancers but it has been found to raise levls of testosterone and sperm count in men but at a higher dosage so in laymens terms not that im not already using laymens terms nolva breast problems clomid fertility problems or so i understand.so as i understand both having different properties i use both but nolva i use at a low dose of 20mg through out my cycle were as the clomid i use at a steady 50mg throughout 4 weeks also a low dose but as i said before i dont start the clomid until 2 weeks after my last test shot.im not saying im correct but its what i have done in my orevious cycles and what ill do in my next as my test levels are stable and i dont have any signs of gyno i just had itchy nipples on my 1st cycle but apart from that my cycles have been brill and my source has been good.thanks for replying though as i enjoy these conversations as we are all always learning allthe time

 

[badman77]

hi sorry for slow reply ive been away on holiday.im no doctor to be honest but from what i have researched there is a difference what there medical uses are and doses as shown in your example to maintain a rivaled effect (for bodybuilders increasing theyre test levels)to nolvadex ,clomid had to be dosed at 150mg as oposed to nolvas 20mg which shows their chemical structors are different.nolvadex medical uses are for treament for things like gynecomastia,liver cancer ,breast cancer ... were as clomid is used more for fertility treament in women also cancers but usualy ovarian cancers but it has been found to raise levls of testosterone and sperm count in men but at a higher dosage so in laymens terms not that im not already using laymens terms nolva breast problems clomid fertility problems or so i understand.so as i understand both having different properties i use both but nolva i use at a low dose of 20mg through out my cycle were as the clomid i use at a steady 50mg throughout 4 weeks also a low dose but as i said before i dont start the clomid until 2 weeks after my last test shot.im not saying im correct but its what i have done in my orevious cycles and what ill do in my next as my test levels are stable and i dont have any signs of gyno i just had itchy nipples on my 1st cycle but apart from that my cycles have been brill and my source has been good.thanks for replying though as i enjoy these conversations as we are all always learning allthe time

Clomifene works by blocking the oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus. This stops oestrogen from acting on these receptors, and therefore stops the message being sent to the pituitary gland. This results in the release of more FSH and LH from the pituitary gland. The increase in these hormones increases the chances of egg development and ovulation.
and
Tamoxifen works by blocking the oestrogen receptors, thereby blocking the effect of oestrogen
looking futher into it you right and im wrong and i apreciate you pointing this out to me as youve just saved me some money were as the medical uses are different their effects are extremely the simular.like i said we are always learning new things but like i also said it worked for me and it would not harm using both in conjunction as they are so simular its just more expensive.so i guess youve answered your own question yes you can use nolvadex as your only pct

 

[josequervo]

Ok thanks for the responses and my choice will be the nolvadex but now my concerns are this now ....have any of u ever gotten nolvadex from online pharmacies an being it is not over the counter an requires perscrition whatt do u think the consequences risks of trying to perchase these througj the mail.

 

[SquadLeader]

You need testosterone as a base. A testosterone only cycle for a first cycle is preferred. It helps you understand steroids and get used to them. If your doing what you should which is eating right and training theres no reason why you won't gain 20lbs on your first cycle with testosterone at 500mg a week. Go with that and afterwards run your pct. See how you feel and how you liked it.