My Story..........

[Bullseye Forever]

As many of you know and read alot of my previous post and comments on this forum about TRT,and my "insanely"to high of a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose.....I PM'd several of my friends on here with my story,and they asked me to post a thread about it,i hope yall will not flame me to much,i just wanted all of you to know how stupid and dumb an Endocrinologist can be to a man(me) that is depending on his knowlegde to help me through the dreaded "Male Andropause" part of a man's life........

first off,my story begins 4 years ago,i was put on trt,started at a normal dose of 200mg/14days.....then as the last few years has went by,my dose now is up to 600mg/10days,yes you've read it right,600mg/10days!!! my Endo told me that with clinical doses of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doesnt require an A.I. and that those same doses wont cause any abnormal side effects,also my endo told me that in his practice,he doesnt blood test estradiol(E2)levels.......ive been on this dose for over a year now,and evry 6 months i get my blood test done and,my total test levels has never been over 488ng/dl......im seriuos,and i have the proof to back it up,test after test arounf the same numbers.

I still as bad today as i have 4 years ago,through all the dose changes etc...and also my endo doesnt believe in injections once per week,its either every 2 weeks or every 10 days.....

so about 3 weeks ago i confronted him about the signs and symptoms of high estrogen,once again he says that clinical doses does not require an A.I. also he mentioned that Roid heads use A.I. while they abuse testosterone,and that a.i.'s arent required with trt...at all,plus he said that my high dose of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is causing my high estrogen levels,and i said well you are the one that presricbed the dose,and he said well,you need to stay on it,so your levels will stay up and i was like.......hes talking outta both sides of his mouth,,

so i took it upon myself to get my GP to check my estrogen levels for the first time in my life,and bam!!!!!!!!!!!! when i recieved a personal phone call from her she said,your estrogen levels are out the roof,ungodly high,shes never seen anything like it in a man before,my levels were 126.5pg/ml out the range of 10-50pg/ml!!!!no wonder i still feel like shit!!!ive been on antidepressants for 16 years,thinking this was the problem,but i learned that the estrogen has been my "silent killer" if you will.....

so after talking with several friends on here,i started taking aromasin 25mg/day i started on April 20th and as of today,i went this morning and got my estradiol levels checked again,i hope to get the results back soon.......im feeling better, a little,have lost 8 lbs of water weight in a week,the swelling in my face and stomach has went down,and feel better this week more than i have in years......


also ive had all the other blood test done as well,DHT,Prolactin,SHBG,ETC......and all have been within normal ranges......

so this morning my GP wants to send me to a 2nd opinion,which i am going to go to.....im glad my insurance covers all this,cause im gonna get my hormones in balance come hell or high water.......

Thanks for reading my post,i know it may be a boriing read,but its real life and tells another story of how stupid and incompentent a real specialist can be.......

lastly,,my endo called this afternoon and said to me,no i will not write you a sricp for an A.I. i said okie dokie,no problem man,you wont ever see my ass again in your fucking office and i slammed the phone down........

 

[cjw2021]

Normal range for SHBG is meaningless. Normal range goes from usually 10-60. Mine was 55 and "in range" and I felt horrible. Now mine is around 15. I'd like to know what your SHBG was. I mean I don't see how all that testosterone could convert to DHT only without an anti estrogen. So I'm not surprised at all that your E2 levels were 100 something on 600 mg or whatever. I'm surprised you didn't develop gynecomastia with e2 that high. I wonder if your doc has a plastic surgeon he works since he grows tits in his male clients because he refuses to prescribe an AI.

 

[UserAt204]

Bullseye glad to see you posted brother. I'm hoping chip can offer some advice. Speaking with bullseye, after starting aromisin, it is taking a lot of time for him to really feel normal which is obvious with estro that high. My question is should he stay at 25mg a day or possibly go higher until symptoms subside. I'm very happy to see you are starting to feel better but man you have been put through the ringer and we need to get you feeling good again.

Bullseye is a solid guy and I back him 100% so if anyone has any advice or a similar story to share then help a brother out.

 

[Bullseye Forever]

Normal range for SHBG is meaningless. Normal range goes from usually 10-60. Mine was 55 and "in range" and I felt horrible. Now mine is around 15. I'd like to know what your SHBG was. I mean I don't see how all that testosterone could convert to DHT only without an anti estrogen. So I'm not surprised at all that your E2 levels were 100 something on 600 mg or whatever. I'm surprised you didn't develop gynecomastia with e2 that high. I wonder if your doc has a plastic surgeon he works since he grows tits in his male clients because he refuses to prescribe an AI.

i got my SHBG tested today,so i will know the answer very soon,that part of my story needed editing bro,i dont kow the results of my SHBG yet,i will post when i get them.Im surprised i didnt develop gyno as well,yes i agree,he must have a plastic surgeon on hand

 

[Bullseye Forever]

Bullseye glad to see you posted brother. I'm hoping chip can offer some advice. Speaking with bullseye, after starting aromisin, it is taking a lot of time for him to really feel normal which is obvious with estro that high. My question is should he stay at 25mg a day or possibly go higher until symptoms subside. I'm very happy to see you are starting to feel better but man you have been put through the ringer and we need to get you feeling good again.

Bullseye is a solid guy and I back him 100% so if anyone has any advice or a similar story to share then help a brother out.

thanks my brother!!!!if it hadnt of been for you,i dont know where i wouldve started....my blessings to ya my brother!!!

 

[BBE]

Hope you get back to 110 percent brother! As for your E2, yes, please keep us posted and let us know what it comes back as. I'm very curious to know how fast a good dose of aromasin can impact an E2 level that high. April 20th makes it about what, 2 weeks of aromasin?

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

I'm having the same Problems getting the Doc to prescribe and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or HCG. I talked to my Doc about he reason to use the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and he was more open to it. I still don't have a script for the HCG. I've been forcing my Doc to test and Retest and That's got his attention because he knows I'm paying attention and I what it right. IT doesn't hurt that He knows I know More about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) than he does.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

well the once E10day shot is what is messing up your E2. when you inject T your levels will get as high as they are gonna get from that shot within 48 hours. then decline to half over the next 5 days (i personally think it declines quicker than that).

so whats happening is your body is seeing waaaay to high amounts of test, so it ramps up the number of aromatase enzymes. then your T falls, after 7 days it is really falling super fast, but the same amount of enzymes are still there. your body does not recognize the fluctation fast enough to correct the mistake. in its eyes, since a normal man releases T at constant levels all throughout the day, it is not prepared for this fluctation.

now your T is bottoming out, the enzymes are converting what little you have to E, and know your suffering from high E and low T levels................following me?

so although you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to correct E, more importantly you need to pin more frequently, and your body wont ramp up as many aroma's.

your post is long brother, if you have specific questions break them up in single post's for me and I will give you what i know.

 

[Bullseye Forever]

Hope you get back to 110 percent brother! As for your E2, yes, please keep us posted and let us know what it comes back as. I'm very curious to know how fast a good dose of aromasin can impact an E2 level that high. April 20th makes it about what, 2 weeks of aromasin?

yea,its been 2 weeks,and it seems like im
getting to feeling better everyday,i should hear back from my test hopefully on friday or monday and i will post up....thanks for posting

I'm having the same Problems getting the Doc to prescribe and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or HCG. I talked to my Doc about he reason to use the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and he was more open to it. I still don't have a script for the HCG. I've been forcing my Doc to test and Retest and That's got his attention because he knows I'm paying attention and I what it right. IT doesn't hurt that He knows I know More about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) than he does.

I totally agree brother,the same way here,ive learned alot more about it from being here on the whole forum,it really pisses him off to know that a "civilian" knows alot more than he realizes...my endo honestly thinnks A.I's and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) are used only with the abuse of testosterone,or as he calls it,steriod use....may you will have better luck in getting yours to take more action than i did!!

well the once E10day shot is what is messing up your E2. when you inject T your levels will get as high as they are gonna get from that shot within 48 hours. then decline to half over the next 5 days (i personally think it declines quicker than that).

so whats happening is your body is seeing waaaay to high amounts of test, so it ramps up the number of aromatase enzymes. then your T falls, after 7 days it is really falling super fast, but the same amount of enzymes are still there. your body does not recognize the fluctation fast enough to correct the mistake. in its eyes, since a normal man releases T at constant levels all throughout the day, it is not prepared for this fluctation.

now your T is bottoming out, the enzymes are converting what little you have to E, and know your suffering from high E and low T levels................following me?

so although you need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to correct E, more importantly you need to pin more frequently, and your body wont ramp up as many aroma's.

your post is long brother, if you have specific questions break them up in single post's for me and I will give you what i know.

Thanks Det,i understand totally what you are saying,and i had to start splitting the shots up at once a week,plus i lowered the dosage on my own,cause i knew it was messing me up..........

once the estrogen gets down to a normal limit,in your opinion,should i stay on the aromasin at a lower dose ed or eod? cause i know now that im very prone to high conversion rate to estrogen from test,but would that change by splitting the dose up?

 

[UserAt204]

What DET is saying is making perfect sense. If you could get your injects to twice a week, it will keep you with a more steady level of test, and that will keep the estro levels from getting so high.

 

[Machine5150]

good to hear you are getting this handled bro..

When you gonna start that cycle we spoke of a few months ago?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

once the estrogen gets down to a normal limit,in your opinion,should i stay on the aromasin at a lower dose ed or eod? cause i know now that im very prone to high conversion rate to estrogen from test,but would that change by splitting the dose up?

as far as dosage you will just have to play with it, with your history i dont see anything wrong with 25mg ED, people always tout how strong aromasin is but it really isnt that strong. IMO its easier to kill estro with the other two since the have a longer half-life and over time levels can build. with aromasin even if you start getiing headaches, joint pain or your libido goes south, you will know to lower the dosage.

I would never dose aromasin EOD its active life is 24 hours, thats like dosing your T E14 days, and we have seen what happens when we dont dose according to half-life in your case.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

here is a good analogy on how aromasin works from mr hummdiddly or humdinger as i like to call him.......................

"Perhaps an analogy can help. Pretend you (exemestane) are a hitman in a drug house. However you only have the keys to certain doors in the house. Periodically new people (aromatase) spawn in the rooms. The first run you go through and kill everything and there is lots of killing. The second run through there are less people in the rooms you have access to so the people killed is less. However the people in the locked rooms (dense lipid cells) go on making drugs (estrogen). The house's overall drug production is increased but since you don't have the keys you can not completely halt the drug production.

Now lets apply that analogy to dosing. When you increase the dosing it is like increasing the number of hitmen and as a result more rooms in the house can be entered. Eventuallly with enough hitmen you could kill the entire population of the house and cease drug production. "

 

[Bullseye Forever]

What DET is saying is making perfect sense. If you could get your injects to twice a week, it will keep you with a more steady level of test, and that will keep the estro levels from getting so high.

yea thats what i am going to start doing,and im going to lessen the dose a little i think and see how i feel,if i feel worse,i will just go back up

good to hear you are getting this handled bro..

When you gonna start that cycle we spoke of a few months ago?

hey brother!!! good to hear from you,im gonna start my cycle in a couple of months,i just got released from my doctor a month ago to start working out with my left shoulder and arm again,i had shoulder surgery back in jan,so im going to get my shoulder strength back up and healed,so i can have a good cycle

as far as dosage you will just have to play with it, with your history i dont see anything wrong with 25mg ED, people always tout how strong aromasin is but it really isnt that strong. IMO its easier to kill estro with the other two since the have a longer half-life and over time levels can build. with aromasin even if you start getiing headaches, joint pain or your libido goes south, you will know to lower the dosage.

I would never dose aromasin EOD its active life is 24 hours, thats like dosing your T E14 days, and we have seen what happens when we dont dose according to half-life in your case.

man,thanks!!!shit lol,now im freaking about the libido thing,i didnt know that about aromasin,and ive been having a really bad time with libido and sexual desires for the last several months,maybe i should change to arimidex or letro,which is better,either one?

 

[Bullseye Forever]

here is a good analogy on how aromasin works from mr hummdiddly or humdinger as i like to call him.......................

"Perhaps an analogy can help. Pretend you (exemestane) are a hitman in a drug house. However you only have the keys to certain doors in the house. Periodically new people (aromatase) spawn in the rooms. The first run you go through and kill everything and there is lots of killing. The second run through there are less people in the rooms you have access to so the people killed is less. However the people in the locked rooms (dense lipid cells) go on making drugs (estrogen). The house's overall drug production is increased but since you don't have the keys you can not completely halt the drug production.

Now lets apply that analogy to dosing. When you increase the dosing it is like increasing the number of hitmen and as a result more rooms in the house can be entered. Eventuallly with enough hitmen you could kill the entire population of the house and cease drug production. "

dam,i get it big time lol...perfect Det....makes perfect sense...

 

[BBE]

here is a good analogy on how aromasin works from mr hummdiddly or humdinger as i like to call him.......................

"Perhaps an analogy can help. Pretend you (exemestane) are a hitman in a drug house. However you only have the keys to certain doors in the house. Periodically new people (aromatase) spawn in the rooms. The first run you go through and kill everything and there is lots of killing. The second run through there are less people in the rooms you have access to so the people killed is less. However the people in the locked rooms (dense lipid cells) go on making drugs (estrogen). The house's overall drug production is increased but since you don't have the keys you can not completely halt the drug production.

Now lets apply that analogy to dosing. When you increase the dosing it is like increasing the number of hitmen and as a result more rooms in the house can be entered. Eventuallly with enough hitmen you could kill the entire population of the house and cease drug production. "

That was somehow both the strangest AND best analogy of aromasin I've ever read.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

once your get your inject frequency straightened out and get E2 to where it needs to be libido should come back strong, if not its nothing a lil Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) wont fix.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

That was somehow both the strangest AND best analogy of aromasin I've ever read.

i know i wish that bastard was still around, you cant understand half the shit he says, but if you wanna find out the truth about something, he is the man to ask.

 

[BBE]

i know i wish that bastard was still around, you cant understand half the shit he says, but if you wanna find out the truth about something, he is the man to ask.

Not tryin to hijack your thread here bullseye. But just a thought about aromasin, how well would it work, if you used something aggressive at first like letro to get your estrogen down to where you want it to be, and then switched over to aromasin to "hold" your position there for the long term?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

i dont think that is necessary, i would rather double dose the aromasin and then taper back. or just use letro for good.