MY TRT Bloodwork numbers help?

[burnsmart]

Wouldnt bringing by E2 down increase my free T?

Are there guys who go on very low doce HCG say 100 IU instead of the 250 i commonly see?

Would i be able to reduce my E2 by switching to sub Q? The weight loss is underway, i assume it would be faster with lower E. If i could lower my E2 by going to sub q and upping my dose slightly would my free T possibly increase. Am i really over analyzing this? It aggrivates me to some extent that the DR. has no interest even looking at DHEA and pregnenolone. Those tests were only dont at my request. I live in MA and this is actually a reputable DR. for this stuff in the area.

 

[Megatron28]

Wouldnt bringing by E2 down increase my free T?

Are there guys who go on very low doce HCG say 100 IU instead of the 250 i commonly see?

Would i be able to reduce my E2 by switching to sub Q? The weight loss is underway, i assume it would be faster with lower E. If i could lower my E2 by going to sub q and upping my dose slightly would my free T possibly increase. Am i really over analyzing this? It aggrivates me to some extent that the DR. has no interest even looking at DHEA and pregnenolone. Those tests were only dont at my request. I live in MA and this is actually a reputable DR. for this stuff in the area.

No. Estrogen binds to SHBG as well. When estrogen is bound to SHBG more testosterone is freed up. Estrogen and Testosterone both compete to be bound.

Low dose hCG? Probably. You can experiment to see what works best for you. Just be careful running too much as it can desensitize Leydeg Cells.

Lower E2 via SubQ? Probably as the absorption rate is slower thus resulting in more even hormone levels.

Higher test dose will result in higher Free T all things being equal. Lower E2 will result in Lower Free T as explained above. Higher Test dose will result in more aromatization all things being equal though so take that into consideration. Lots of moving parts to this puzzle.

Just remember: pushing on one thing pulls on another.

 

[Jimstigator]

Are there guys who go on very low doce HCG say 100 IU instead of the 250 i commonly see?

Yes. There are some big name Dr's who now recommend lower dose, more frequent injections. Mine for example recommends 100iu per day. I react pretty shitty to HCG, so I do 50iu a day, and it works... very well.

Would i be able to reduce my E2 by switching to sub Q?

Yes - kind of. You are already at the gold standard of twice a week. I find I can get my E2 even lower by moving to every other day... with a caveat. Injecting the same total weekly dose, more often, will bring your TT levels higher. As in, when I inject 50mg twice a week, my TT level is about the same as if I inject 70mg total per week via EOD shots. Benefit - less test for same T level and lower E, negative - more injections. If you do go more frequent, but leave total weekly dose the same, you might just end up with higher TT plus higher E.

-Jim

 

[burnsmart]

thanks,

Jim when going from 50 mg every 3.5 days to every other day what is the dosing and on which days do you inject? just every other day or do you try to hit the same days? M W F Sun...T Thu Sat...Mon ,,,,,etc?

Are you doing this sub q? Is it true there is a break in period of sorts if switching to sub q until the levels get regulated?

 

[Jimstigator]

thanks,

Jim when going from 50 mg every 3.5 days to every other day what is the dosing and on which days do you inject? just every other day or do you try to hit the same days? M W F Sun...T Thu Sat...Mon ,,,,,etc?

Are you doing this sub q? Is it true there is a break in period of sorts if switching to sub q until the levels get regulated?

I went from shallow IM, 1/2 needle into delts, to 1/2 needle into fat above my butt or into stomach a few inches left or right of belly button. Regardless of spot, I get a pinch of fat between my fingers. I did not notice a dip of any sort, but some might argue I was already doing sub q into my delts.

I literally just do every other day. So no, its not consistent like M,W,F. It ends up being 7 shots over the course of 2 weeks.

Here are a few readings over the past months... notice the first two are twice a week, totaling 100mg test a week. Second two are every other day, totaling 70mg test a week.

50/E3.5D - TT 693, Sensitive E 26.9
50/E3.5D - TT 638, Sensitive E 25.9
20/EOD - TT 792, Sensitive E 30.8
20/EOD - TT 762, Sensitive E 24.8

A while ago I did 28/EOD, which was close to 100mg test a week, and that was putting me to almost TT 1000.

I am likely going to up the EOD dose a bit to 22 or 24, and add in some DIM to keep estrogen hanging in my sweet spot.

-Jim

 

[burnsmart]

Well that may explain a few things. Its really unreal that you guys on this site know much much more than even some "reputable" doctors. Crazy.

This now makes total sense. When i went from once per week to twice per week my TT went up (same dose).

So, if i understand this correctly, I may be able to inject more frequently, using a lower dose, still get the same TT but possibly lower my E2 due to the lower dose. If i go EOD and switch to SubQ i may be able to maintain my TT at a smaller dose and possibly further reduce me E due to even less ups/downs in TT.

Not that it applies to me buy if someone has higher SHGB but good E couldnt they just switch to more frequent injections, raising their TT, which would lower their SHGB?

One would think and educated DR. in this field would have this knowledge and use it as more of a tool before jumping on AI's etc.

 

[Megatron28]

I think something is being missed here. More frequent injections don't necessarily increase serum TT levels. They just tighten up the range.

If you inject once a week you will have a higher peak and a lower trough. I am making up numbers but let's say the peak is 900 and the trough is 500. If you inject twice a week you might see a peak and trough of 775 and 625.

Of course, there is the impact on less aromatization due to lower peak testosterone. That does come into play which means more testosterone stays in the form of testosterone.

Subq has the same affect by slowing down absorption rates a bit. Slower absorption, all other things being equal, means lower peaks and higher troughs. In other words, less of a rollercoaster ride. On the flip side, subq will take longer to reach saturation levels when you start TRT or adjust your dosage.

 

[burnsmart]

Thanks Megatron, I had not thought of it like that but it makes sense. I was making a leap that did not exist lol.

 

[Jimstigator]

I think something is being missed here. More frequent injections don't necessarily increase serum TT levels. They just tighten up the range.

But - it kind of does... doesn't it? Atleast for me it does... when going as frequent as EOD. I have seen elsewhere with other guys this occurred as well.

When I inject 28mg EOD, for a total of 100ish mg a week, my TT hits nearly 1000 all day every day. When I take 50 E3.5D, which actually ends up being a few mg more in a week, my TT, at peak, barely scrapes 800.

I suppose its a tough sell around here as most guys have never tried EOD. But if you have, for a long enough duration of time, I think you would see the same effect.

-Jim

 

[Megatron28]

But - it kind of does... doesn't it? Atleast for me it does... when going as frequent as EOD. I have seen elsewhere with other guys this occurred as well.

When I inject 28mg EOD, for a total of 100ish mg a week, my TT hits nearly 1000 all day every day. When I take 50 E3.5D, which actually ends up being a few mg more in a week, my TT, at peak, barely scrapes 800.

I suppose its a tough sell around here as most guys have never tried EOD. But if you have, for a long enough duration of time, I think you would see the same effect.

-Jim

You are just losing less to aromatization most likely. And your margin of error is greater when trying to dose such a small amount of test so keep that in mind.

I have pinned EOD. Doing it right now as a matter of fact.

 

[hiram1st]

You are just losing less to aromatization most likely. And your margin of error is greater when trying to dose such a small amount of test so keep that in mind.

I have pinned EOD. Doing it right now as a matter of fact.

So are saying if you inject more frequently your E2 will be lower that's why your tt is higher?

 

[Megatron28]

So are saying if you inject more frequently your E2 will be lower that's why your tt is higher?

That is one factor. There are a lot of moving parts.

 

[burnsmart]

If one was to lose less to aromatization than E2 might be lower as a result and TT being higher may lower SHGB? I would imagine if the raise in TT is due to this reason both of those things would happen??

 

[Jimstigator]

You are just losing less to aromatization most likely. And your margin of error is greater when trying to dose such a small amount of test so keep that in mind.

I have pinned EOD. Doing it right now as a matter of fact.

10/4. How you liking EOD?

 

[Megatron28]

If one was to lose less to aromatization than E2 might be lower as a result and TT being higher may lower SHGB? I would imagine if the raise in TT is due to this reason both of those things would happen??

I don't think it is going to change your SHBG. I believe thyroid has a bigger impact on your SHBG levels.

 

[Megatron28]

10/4. How you liking EOD?

All the pinning gets old. I wish we could get Nebido in the US at a similar price and convenience as Test Cyp. Then we could pin much less frequently.

 

[burnsmart]

I was always under the impression that raising TT lowered SHGB in general. What I am getting at is if your TT going up is due to less aromatization that increasing injection frequency will increase TT due to less aromatization, may lower E2 as a result. The increase TT may also lower SHGB getting me to then end game of increasing Free T.

 

[Megatron28]

I was always under the impression that raising TT lowered SHGB in general. What I am getting at is if your TT going up is due to less aromatization that increasing injection frequency will increase TT due to less aromatization, may lower E2 as a result. The increase TT may also lower SHGB getting me to then end game of increasing Free T.

I think SHBG is more of a constant. My understanding is that thyroid, diet,metabolism and other factors have more influence on SHBG than exogenous Testosterone does.

Lowering estrogen actually tends to lower Free T as there is less estrogen competing to be bound to the SHBG. Thus more of the Testosterone get bound.

 

[burnsmart]

Well I am now lost on how to up free T with a TT of 741 and free T of 1.33%

 

[Megatron28]

Here is one study. I think the Basic conclusion is that it is complicated.

Steroidal and non-steroidal factors in plasma sex hormone binding globulin regulation.
Toscano V1, Balducci R, Bianchi P, Guglielmi R, Mangiantini A, Sciarra F.
Author information
Abstract
Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) is a specific steroid-binding plasma glycoprotein regulated by several factors. Sex steroids are currently considered to be the main physiological regulators of this protein. SHBG levels, in fact, increase during estrogen treatment and decrease after androgen administration. It is well known, however, that in many physiological and pathological conditions SHBG concentrations cannot be explained only on the basis of steroidal control mechanisms. The regulation of SHBG levels is in fact more complex and other factors can also affect its plasma values. Between the steroidal factors our attention was focused on the role of androgens, of glandular and peripheral origin, in their capacity to lower SHBG plasma levels. We studied hyperandrogenic conditions in prepubertal (65 subjects with precocious adrenarche and 16 girls with prepubertal hypertrichosis, aged between 4 and 8 years) and in adult age (51 hirsute patients aged between 14-35 years and 51 acneic patients aged between 15-40 years). The effects of dexamethasone and ACTH administration on SHBG plasma levels were also evaluated. The results obtained showed that in adult hyperandrogenic patients SHBG levels, significantly lower than in controls, were not always inversely correlated with androgen levels, which, on the contrary, were higher than in controls. In patients with precocious adrenarche we found an inverse correlation only between SHBG, which was significantly lower than normal, and body mass index or bone age but not with androgens, suggesting that in this condition other factors may be more relevant than steroids in SHBG regulation. Between the non-steroidal factors our attention focused on insulin. We studied 40 non-obese hyperandrogenic patients with or without ultrasonographic evidence of polycystic ovaries, aged 18-39 years, and 35 obese patients, aged 19-37 years, with or without hyperandrogenism or evidence of PCO. Low levels of SHBG were found not only in hyperandrogenic obese patients but also in obese patients with normal androgens. It is possible to conclude that (1) several factors (calorie intake, energy balance and growth factors), other than steroids, may be involved in the regulation of SHBG levels in plasma; and (2) each regulating factor may act to a different extent depending on the various periods of the life cycle.

Steroidal and non-steroidal factors in plasma sex hormone binding globulin regulation. - PubMed - NCBI