New cycle LGD and 1-Andro, thoughts?

[fitguy22]

Looking good brother! Def following for great results!

i tried to reply to your message but it says your inbox is ful bro

 

[Milton]

Looking good. Keep those logs coming thanks!

 

[Supernatural2015]

So I got some wrist wraps, long time bodybuilder friend recommended for wrist and elbow pain. They do help a little. I also bought some fat grips for the curl bar. The pain in my forearms is about all I can handle. Feels like the flexors in my forearm are gonna tear off the bone. Figure I will lighten the weight a little and use those fat grips to try to get my forearms to catch up to my biceps. Don't know if they will work but we will see. My upper arm size has been stuck for 3 or 4 months so I was happy to see 1/4" gain last night after 2 days rest. That's promising since it's only been a week.

On my decline bench presses I want to make a note, while my declines haven't hit new PR yet, I have added 4 sets of dumbbell presses in front of my normal routine. I was going up to 245 for 7 reps then 275 for only 4 reps then pyramiding down. Now I'm at 245 for 7 reps after I've destroyed my arms in dumbbell presses (which have also gone up 20lbs in a week) for the purpose of the log, if I don't hit 7 reps, I won't log it because it's not a full set.

On my weight, I immediately dropped 2lbs the day after I started the log weighing in at 193.4 that next day. I didn't get my weight this morning but I barely ate anything today because of work, 3 strips of chicken from long johns and a small roast beef sandwich and I weighed in at 200.6 a few min ago so I'm gonna estimate 197 as a true body weight.

Dumbbell presses 80x2, 90x2
Decline bench 185x2, 225x 1, 245x1
Incline bench 135, 155, 165, 155 (no spot so I didn't go too heavy last set)
Dumbbell lateral raise 25lbs
Dips 160, 180, 200, 220 (PR @ 220)
Tricep rope push downs 110, 130x2, 150 (PR @150, tapped out the machine)
Military presses skipped, gym closed in 10 min and station was taken.

 

[Supernatural2015]

Cybrsage, took your advice and got some glucosamine/chondroitin @ 1500mg/1200mg respectively we will see if it helps the joint pain. Thanks again for the tip.

For everyone else following, I appreciate the support guys. Pushing hard as I can.

Truegrit, getting ready to place my 5th order with you guys, like the product bro.

Btw I just took my blood pressure since the 1-andro is supposed to raise it. My BP is 125/81 and 83 BPM.

 

[JimiThing]

How are you feeling? The reason I ask is the suppression from the LGD and 1-andro really doesnt qualify as a true test base from what I can tell. Are you having any symptoms of suppression? Id suspect not as the effects of both the LGD and 1 andro would in fact probably mask any but I am sure some degree of suppression is occurring.
Thanks for doing this. LGD is a compound I have been looking into pretty heavily to use to jump start a cycle in place of a traditional oral starter like dbol so I am interested in how this plays out for you.

 

[Supernatural2015]

How are you feeling? The reason I ask is the suppression from the LGD and 1-andro really doesnt qualify as a true test base from what I can tell. Are you having any symptoms of suppression? Id suspect not as the effects of both the LGD and 1 andro would in fact probably mask any but I am sure some degree of suppression is occurring.
Thanks for doing this. LGD is a compound I have been looking into pretty heavily to use to jump start a cycle in place of a traditional oral starter like dbol so I am interested in how this plays out for you.

You are right, it's not a true test base. The fact it doesn't convert to estrogen has its downsides. In all, not too bad. Tired a lot. Joints are achy. LGD is mildly suppressive, 1-andro should be more suppressive than LGD. I'd expect a true test base to allow the person to feel better during the run due to partial conversion alone.

Additional sides are sleeplessness and loss in sex drive. I sleep 5 -6 hours a night but it's a sudo sleep. I'm not hitting deep sleep. I have some herbal sleep aid on hand to help deal with that. As for sex drive, well it's pretty much non existent. Not that I can't, I wake up with wood every monrning, I just don't feel like it. If I run into trouble there I have viagra on hand.

My body weight estimation was right on the money, after the bathroom visit this morning and before my coffee, I was exactly 197lbs.

I decided to doubled the 1- andro dose this morning. I'm reading that normal runs are between 300-600mg for guys under 200lbs and 600-900mg for guys over 200lbs. I'm right at the cutoff line and seem to be tolerating the drug just fine. So I am taking 2 - 110mg doses x3 times a day (660mg) + LGD @ 20mg. This may or may not yield additional results. The drug requires enzymes to convert and more enzymes to convert again before it reaches 1-testosterone. My guess is that there will be a point of saturation where the required enzymes aren't available to convert anymore. What that point is, well, it's unknown. I will run this until the 3rd bottle run out, I had 180 doses to start with so the cycle will end after 34 days. If I start seeing more or worse issues I will back off.

I'm not as concerned with shutting down because I'm pretty sure I already am. With proper pct I should be able to bring it back up to par. I am more concerned with how my liver deals with it, blood pressure, etc. I'm taking 2 cycle support pills in the morning and 2 in the evening right now.

Update: it's been about 2 hours since I took the double dose of 1-andro. I work from a recliner so I'm not active during the day. I can feel my pulse and BP go up so I took measurements. My BP is 136/96 and pulse is 93, so yes it definitely effects your blood pressure and heart rate. I will keep an eye on it today.

 

[JimiThing]

^^ Yeah I agree a proper pct should get you restarted. I would say this though, LGD is much more than mildly suppressive. I understand this isnt a concern for you personally right now ( a personal choice) but Its a very suppressive compound especially as doses increase.
Your doing a great job with the details here. This is just the kind of stuff im looking to hear before using LGD in the manner in which I am thinking about. Thanks for taking the time to do this and I will def be following this !!

 

[Supernatural2015]

^^ Yeah I agree a proper pct should get you restarted. I would say this though, LGD is much more than mildly suppressive. I understand this isnt a concern for you personally right now ( a personal choice) but Its a very suppressive compound especially as doses increase.
Your doing a great job with the details here. This is just the kind of stuff im looking to hear before using LGD in the manner in which I am thinking about. Thanks for taking the time to do this and I will def be following this !!

You are right, Let me rephrase, LGD at recommended dose of 10 mg will suppress you enough to require a real pct, but that dose won't shut you down completely. I'm at 20 and I don't recommend that dose unless you've run it a few times.

On th blood pressure and 1-andro issue the diastolic number jumped 15 points at 220mg single dose. If you already have high blood pressure that might be enough to kill you. When that number hits 110 you should be in the ER, that's considered a medical emergency. At this point I don't know if it's going to stay that way. I'm hoping it's just system shock like you get the first time you introduce something in your system. My face is still hot but I don't feel like someone's fingers are in my ears and more. We will see in an hour and a half when the next dose is due.

 

[cybrsage]

LGD is AMAZING, but it is highly suppressive even at only 1mg a day:

The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men.

RESULTS:
LGD-4033 was well tolerated. There were no drug-related serious adverse events...LGD-4033 administration was associated with dose-dependent suppression of total testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, high density lipoprotein cholesterol, and triglyceride levels. Follicle-stimulating hormone and free testosterone showed significant suppression at 1.0-mg dose only. Lean body mass increased dose dependently, but fat mass did not change significantly. Hormone levels and lipids returned to baseline after treatment discontinuation.

The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men. - PubMed - NCBI

At 10mg a day, you are way above the 1mg a day that showed significant suppression. While everyone in the study returned to normal without any PCT, I personally would not risk it and do a PCT just to be safe.

 

[JimiThing]

LGD is AMAZING, but it is highly suppressive even at only 1mg a day:


The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men. - PubMed - NCBI

At 10mg a day, you are way above the 1mg a day that showed significant suppression. While everyone in the study returned to normal without any PCT, I personally would not risk it and do a PCT just to be safe.

Thanks for posting this. I was going to post a refer to it but I didnt want it to seem like I was beating a dead horse.

 

[Supernatural2015]

Thanks for posting this. I was going to post a refer to it but I didnt want it to seem like I was beating a dead horse.

No worries brother, we are here to discuss it not argue. I can tell you how I feel at 10mg, 20mg and what it feels like completely shut down. They all feel different. I read that reference above. I can tell you they feel different. Someone on here posted bloodwork while mid cycle, I'd take a look. I can only tell by how I (and my boys) reacted to it. i also have the bloodwork from when I came off LGD only at 20mg/day.

As for the andro dose, 3 hours since the second 220mg dose and I feel ok, blood pressure didn't go back up after it came down this morning 123/85 @2pm when I took it, at 123/84 now.

 

[gayeyes]

Someone on here posted bloodwork while mid cycle

That may have been me I now have bloods after my full 8 week run of LGD too, here's a summary. I started with a dose of 5mg and upped it progressively to 15mg in the last week.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)
Total test	516	98	70
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4

So.... quite suppressive but not totally shut down. I was running Dermacrine as a test base and honestly don't know if that helped or not. My libido and ability to "perform" only got affected in the last week or so. I'm in PCT now with Clomid+Nolva, and I'll do bloods again in a month.

The other thing to keep an eye on while running LGD are cholesterol levels. As you can see LGD suppresses HDL. I'm trying to figure out a way to mitigate this for next time... suggestions welcome.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134
HDL	44	28	17
LDL	99	105	100

 

[Supernatural2015]

That may have been me I now have bloods after my full 8 week run of LGD too, here's a summary. I started with a dose of 5mg and upped it progressively to 15mg in the last week.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)
Total test	516	98	70
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4

So.... quite suppressive but not totally shut down. I was running Dermacrine as a test base and honestly don't know if that helped or not. My libido and ability to "perform" only got affected in the last week or so. I'm in PCT now with Clomid+Nolva, and I'll do bloods again in a month.

The other thing to keep an eye on while running LGD are cholesterol levels. As you can see LGD suppresses HDL. I'm trying to figure out a way to mitigate this for next time... suggestions welcome.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134
HDL	44	28	17
LDL	99	105	100

Thanks brother, I thought it was you. How much test base were you running because that would have an impact on how much you were suppressed?

I didn't get mine done until about a week after I stopped @20mg LGD only. It shows my test much higher than I went into the cycle.

 

[gayeyes]

Dermacrine at 3 pumps daily. Do you think that was significant in mitigating suppression?

Were you on Clomid when you did your bloods after cycle? Clomid will make your test shoot up. The question is whether your body can sustain normal levels after Clomid is stopped. What I've read is to wait a month after PCT and do bloods again to see where you're at.

 

[Supernatural2015]

Dermacrine at 3 pumps daily. Do you think that was significant in mitigating suppression?

Were you on Clomid when you did your bloods after cycle? Clomid will make your test shoot up. The question is whether your body can sustain normal levels after Clomid is stopped. What I've read is to wait a month after PCT and do bloods again to see where you're at.

Honestly man I'd have to go look that up. No I didn't do the Clomid until after the blood was drawn. It was important to me that the bloodwork was not messed up.

 

[Supernatural2015]

Bicep day is always a painful one, elbows and forearms. A few things have changed in the last 24 hours.

1. I upped the 1-andro dosage to 660mg
2. I purchased fat grips to use for excersies the are painful in the forearms
3. I started taking Glucosamine for joint pain.

The result today was a nearly pain free bicep day. Fat grips gave me forearm pumps far better than I've ever had doing curls. I even lightened the weight 10lbs. Today was different though. Today I had an arm pump like I've never seen and I didn't feel any of it. Strength was incredible. I don't think I even broke a sweat. I started getting worried when I could hear the tendons popping in my elbows when I bent my arms without weight. I could have went heavier, a lot heavier because it was pain free but I was afraid I'd blow out one of those tendons under the weight and not feel it. I am already concerned I'm going to regret today's workout tomorrow. A hint of tendon pain is already starting to set in. It's been 3 hours since I left the gym and my arms still feel like they are trying to wake up from a local anesthetic. Pumps like this should have had me in my knees and I didn't feel shit.

Lat pull downs 150x1, 170x1, 190x1, 200x1 (PR @ 200)
Dumbbell rows 90x2, 100x2 (PR @ 100)
Seated Row Machine 150x1, 170x1, 200x1, 220x1 (PR @220)
Alternating dumbbell curls 40x4
Easy curls 75x4 sets (used fat grips)
Preacher curls 55x2, 75x2 sets (used fat grips)
Reverse preacher 45x1, 55x3 sets (used fat grips)
Barbell shrugs 225x1, 275x3 sets

 

[JimiThing]

No worries brother, we are here to discuss it not argue. I can tell you how I feel at 10mg, 20mg and what it feels like completely shut down. They all feel different. I read that reference above. I can tell you they feel different. Someone on here posted bloodwork while mid cycle, I'd take a look. I can only tell by how I (and my boys) reacted to it. i also have the bloodwork from when I came off LGD only at 20mg/day.

As for the andro dose, 3 hours since the second 220mg dose and I feel ok, blood pressure didn't go back up after it came down this morning 123/85 @2pm when I took it, at 123/84 now.

No, no its all good. I am just looking out for the info to the masses is all, not to argue specific effects (or anything else) on you man. Also never to argue or debate how u feel, thats why I asked as that is just as significant. Just like when I discuss trt it isnt all about the numbers its about how u feel.

 

[JimiThing]

That may have been me I now have bloods after my full 8 week run of LGD too, here's a summary. I started with a dose of 5mg and upped it progressively to 15mg in the last week.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)
Total test	516	98	70
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4

So.... quite suppressive but not totally shut down. I was running Dermacrine as a test base and honestly don't know if that helped or not. My libido and ability to "perform" only got affected in the last week or so. I'm in PCT now with Clomid+Nolva, and I'll do bloods again in a month.

The other thing to keep an eye on while running LGD are cholesterol levels. As you can see LGD suppresses HDL. I'm trying to figure out a way to mitigate this for next time... suggestions welcome.

The bold above is another effect users and those considering need be aware of. Red Yeast Rice, Oats daily, and a diet high in omega fa's or a fish oil supp may help.

 

[Supernatural2015]

The bold above is another effect users and those considering need be aware of. Red Yeast Rice, Oats daily, and a diet high in omega fa's or a fish oil supp may help.

Thanks for the tip.

On another note, update from yesterday's bicep workout. I was expecting a lot of pain today but to my surprise I have very little. I expected a pain level of 10 (meaning I can't hold a cup of coffee) and am only experiencing a 2. A little sharp tendon pain in the tricep area when I move a certain way but that's about it. Muscle soreness is about a 2 as well. I take arm measurements every day because that is my weakest part and I have seen a slow gradual increase over the last week of 3/8" which isn't a lot but it's averaged 1/8" per workout cycle (cycle being a 3day split). I hope to see this continue.

 

[Supernatural2015]

Update, took dose at 10pm, approximately 2 hours after a large meal, blood pressure started climbing. It's now 1:30am and BP is 140/98. It's giving me a headache and making my eyeballs hurt. Need to consider lowering the dose tomorrow. If BP is getting that high on a non workout day, I don't want to be stuck under a couple hundred on squat or decline benchpress when it jumps the next time. I will decide in the morning what to lower it to.


Btw BP was 121/81 about 3pm so this is considerably high for me.