New Cycle

[McDaddySanchez]

Hey all I am new to forums here. Posting my cycle, please critique and I will be updating results week by week.

Test E 250mg x2 weekly 1-10
Mast E 200mg x2 weekly 1-10
Npp 100mg EOD weeks 2-8
HCG 250ius x2 weekly 5-12

Nolva 40/20/20/20/20 week 13-17
Clomid 100/50/50/50/50 week 13-17
HCGenerate week 13-17

Have Adex and Prami on hand

This is my third cycle. My first was TestE 500mg weekly x10 weeks. I did not come off it well. Friend told me to run nolva only 40/40/20/20 needless to say I had to PCT again with clomid and nolva which made things better. I suffered from high E2 for a while also

Second cycle was test and mast as listed above. Used HCG weeks 4-12 250ius x2 weekly and nolva/clomid 2 weeks after last pin. It been about a year since last cycle so I am ready again.

I have been training for 8 years and am currently 27 years old and at 15% bf. I lost about 45lbs after my last cycle, battled a bout of depression and didn't eat so I lost alot of my mass and gained some bf. I am hoping to put some of my mass back on but also stay dry and lose some of that BF. I also suffer from tendinitis in both arms on both sides, will NPP help with this is just with joints?

One day of my diet...

Meal 1
Egg White omlet 1oz cheese
Whole grain bagel with almond butter
1 cup greek yogurt

Meal 2
10oz cooked chicken (baked, grilled or sauted)
2 cups spinach, cukes, tomatoes etc..

Meal 3
10oz tilapia
2 cups steamed broccoli
8oz baked sweet potatoe

Meal 4
8oz steak
1 cups kidney beans
2oz whole wheat pasta with olive oil basil and parm cheese

Meal 5
1 scoop protein
1 cup 2% milk
1/2 banana
1 cup vanilla greek yogurt
1/2 tbs PB
6-9 ice cubes
Blend together

Meal 6
6oz any protein before bed to keep me from waking up middle of the night craving foods

I usually throw in some more salads as I get hungry and its not time for a meal or I'll make some cukes with tomatoes and mozz cheese with oil and vinegar and also sometimes throw in fruits when I have a craving for sweets.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rumpy]

NPP is a short ester and will clear your system much faster than the Test E, so there's no reason to stop it 2 weeks before the test. NPP will also get into your system a lot faster, so you should start it 2 weeks after you start the test. I would run the test for 12 weeks min, maybe up to 14. Start the NPP after 2-3 weeks to let the test levels build, and run it until the end of the test. I would also pin everything EOD just to keep things simple. Currently I'm pinning 175mg of test C and 120mg of NPP EOD, mixed in the same pin. I think 15-18 days is safer than 2 weeks for starting PCT on an E cycle, but 2 weeks should be fine. I've never used Mast so I have nothing to add there, but everything else looks good to me.

I forgot add that yes, the NPP will make your joints feel great!

 

[McDaddySanchez]

Alright Thanks, I'll start post cycle therapy (pct) around 18 days. If I go 12 weeks I have to basically buy another 10 weeks worth of cycle so I might as well run a 20 weeks cycle or do you think that would be to much?

 

[Kazmir]

Maximum cycle length is user specific, its all about listening to your body, personally if I was going to order to extend my cycle I would buy for the 20 weeks and if your body is telling to to come off around week 12-14 then you have extra to use later on down the road and I am sure it won't be wasted. Just what I would do personally...

 

[McDaddySanchez]

One more question...I know the downside to using hcg is your body can become dependent on it making recovery difficult if used to long...should I use hcg from week 5 all the way thru or from like 5-15?

 

[DreDay187]

One more question...I know the downside to using hcg is your body can become dependent on it making recovery difficult if used to long...should I use hcg from week 5 all the way thru or from like 5-15?

Where did you hear that? The most common worry when it comes to using HCG is desensitizing your Ledyig cells but that requires high doses and/or running it for extended periods of time.

 

[McDaddySanchez]

A few sites such as steroids.com...I know it affects leydig cells which is why I got the HCGenerate to help them out for recovery.

 

[DreDay187]

A few sites such as steroids.com...I know it affects leydig cells which is why I got the HCGenerate to help them out for recovery.

HCGenerate is not HCG and they work very differently with HCG being the wiser choice. I'd be hesitant to go with a profile from steroids,com since much of the information isn't accurate but what do you mean becoming dependent on it? HCG densensitizing ledyig cells is the main issue with its use and the other is increased testicular aromatase expression.

 

[4rings2snails]

HCGenerate is not Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and they work very differently with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) being the wiser choice. I'd be hesitant to go with a profile from steroids,com since much of the information isn't accurate but what do you mean becoming dependent on it? Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) densensitizing ledyig cells is the main issue with its use and the other is increased testicular aromatase expression.

Shows you how uniformed I am... Damn. I bought HCGenerate thinking that it was flippin HCG. LOL... unreal. Hey Doc, any personal preferences for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for my 14 weeker I have coming up in a few weeks? TIA brother

 

[DreDay187]

Shows you how uniformed I am... Damn. I bought HCGenerate thinking that it was flippin HCG. LOL... unreal. Hey Doc, any personal preferences for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for my 14 weeker I have coming up in a few weeks? TIA brother

Lol HCGenerate list of ingredients:

each serving contains
Fadogia Agrestis 1000mg
Fenugreek PE Extracted 50% 1000mg
3,4 Divanillytahydrofuran 500mg
Bulgarain Tribulus Terrestris 500mg
Vitamin E 200mg
LJ:100 100mg
zinc 7mg

http://needtobuildmuscle.com/store/cart.php?
m=product_detail&p=45&special=&related=

Real Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), like other gonadotropins, can be extracted from pregnant urine or extracted from cultures of genetically modified microbes with recombinant DNA.

HCG do during the cycle 250iu 2x/wk and to be discontinued no later than 4days before PCT.

 

[Rumpy]

Alright Thanks, I'll start post cycle therapy (pct) around 18 days. If I go 12 weeks I have to basically buy another 10 weeks worth of cycle so I might as well run a 20 weeks cycle or do you think that would be to much?

20 is probably a bit much. Being shut down that long will make it harder to recover. I might go 16 weeks. If you end up with too much test, you could always up your dosage a little, maybe 550-600/week, or what ever you have /16 works out to, but I would keep it under 700. You're right, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a bit suppressive, but you're already so messed up on cycle that it's fine. Just be sure to stop it 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct). The concern with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is using it off cycle, I think, (Doc, feel free to correct me on this). Weeks 5-15 is not a problem. Make sure you get real Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), it will come as a white powder in a sterile vial. It needs to be mixed with bac water before use and stored in the fridge.

 

[DreDay187]

20 is probably a bit much. Being shut down that long will make it harder to recover. I might go 16 weeks. If you end up with too much test, you could always up your dosage a little, maybe 550-600/week, or what ever you have /16 works out to, but I would keep it under 700. You're right, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a bit suppressive, but you're already so messed up on cycle that it's fine. Just be sure to stop it 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct). The concern with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is using it off cycle, I think, (Doc, feel free to correct me on this). Weeks 5-15 is not a problem. Make sure you get real Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), it will come as a white powder in a sterile vial. It needs to be mixed with bac water before use and stored in the fridge.

Yes a concern with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use off cycle is that it is an aromatizing agent and therefore can raise estrogen levels as well as induce primary hypogonadism when misused. Dr. Scally has a protocol for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use in post cycle therapy (pct) while Dr. Crissler has developed a protocol for on-cycle use. Which one is better or more effective is almost impossible to tell since human studies of non-therapeutic AAS use are very very rare. Both Dr.'s are highly knowledgeable and widely respected so I would be hesitant to discredit either one but to me it seems like preventing the atrophy in the first place would be better than trying to undo it after 12+wks of suppression. It's an individualistic choice and one that should be researched properly ahead of time.

 

[DreDay187]

An article written by Dr. Scally

A: Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are posted. The use of hCG for post cycle therapy (pct) is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

hCG for post cycle therapy (pct) involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal. The analogy I use is the starting of a car by pushing it from behind. Alone the care will not start but with pushing the clutch can be popped and the car started.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ***8216;push***8217; the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone: 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In post cycle therapy (pct) hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day.

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/hcg-timing-and-dosing/

 

[4rings2snails]

An article written by Dr. Scally


How Do I Use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) with Steroids?

First off let me thank you for sharing and articulating your knowledge Doc... IMHO you're a great asset to the community and you've helped me many times over the last couple of weeks. So thanks again for everything.

I too agree from a purely logical standpoint that, "preventing the atrophy in the first place would be better than trying to undo it after 12+wks of suppression." So I'm fully on board with that philosophy of yours. I like to err on the side of caution, but would that interfere in any way with the test I'm administering considering that its being combined with the test essentially every few days? I guess the reason i ask is because I'm trying to figure out if the answer to my question is in fact no then why is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) not a staple in all cycles? I for one was never told to use it on my first go-around a few months ago only to get blasted by forum members for not using it in the two week before post cycle therapy (pct). So again, why is on-cycle Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) not customary with AAS users?

And correct me if I'm wrrong, but it seems that you're basically in the Dr. Crissler camp since he feels that on-cycle use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) makes most sense. Do you have any specific write-ups from him like the Dr. Scally essay you posted here that speaks to Crissler's on-cycle findings?

 

[DreDay187]

First off let me thank you for sharing and articulating your knowledge Doc... IMHO you're a great asset to the community and you've helped me many times over the last couple of weeks. So thanks again for everything.

I too agree from a purely logical standpoint that, "preventing the atrophy in the first place would be better than trying to undo it after 12+wks of suppression." So I'm fully on board with that philosophy of yours. I like to err on the side of caution, but would that interfere in any way with the test I'm administering considering that its being combined with the test essentially every few days? I guess the reason i ask is because I'm trying to figure out if the answer to my question is in fact no then why is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) not a staple in all cycles? I for one was never told to use it on my first go-around a few months ago only to get blasted by forum members for not using it in the two week before post cycle therapy (pct). So again, why is on-cycle Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) not customary with AAS users?

And correct me if I'm wrrong, but it seems that you're basically in the Dr. Crissler camp since he feels that on-cycle use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) makes most sense. Do you have any specific write-ups from him like the Dr. Scally essay you posted here that speaks to Crissler's on-cycle findings?

I do my best to learn and share what I've learned like most others on here but thank you for the kind words.

Like I mentioned, both protocols have great success rates and it jus further proves that there is very rarely one perfect answer in this game. It's like saying you should do 500mg/wk of test for 1st cycle instead of 600mg/wk. both will get results but how can you quantify the difference when there are so many variables involved? While Scally is widely known and respected, I feel Crisler's idea of keeping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use on cycle might be slightly better bc you're taking preemptive action rather than treating it at the end after all the damage is done. I cannot tell you which one is really better but I can give my thoughts for whatever that means to anyone.

" but would that interfere in any way with the test I'm administering considering that its being combined with the test essentially every few days?" <---not exactly sure what you're asking here, is it about mixing in the same pin or just mixing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and test in a cycle?

HCG should be used in all cycles in my opinion for the reasons stated. Not just cosmetically but to reduce the effect of suppression from exogenous use. Scally would have you blast it just prior to post cycle therapy (pct) and crisler would have you run it on cycle is what I get from reading Anabolics textbook but Crisler is also dealing primarily with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients so of course they'd be "on cycle" If you run it on cycle no need to blast it at the end, but if you don't run it during cycle your want that blast and time it correctly. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use isn't customary in many AAS users simply bc they take shortcuts, don't cycle responsibly, don't know about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and how it can help restore testicular function, and much broscience is out there. Not to make a logical fallacy of appealing to an authority but its pretty easy to tell who you can trust advice wise and who you should ignore. The ones telling you to run crazy log cycles, Nolva for on cycle Aromatase inhibitor (AI), no post cycle therapy (pct) etc are the guys you want to run away from. It's important for you to do adequate research and soft the accurate info from the bullshit lol.

I think Crisler on cycle recommendations come from him dealing with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients but I've got some things of his I could post up later when my wifi comes back (that stuff is on the iPad and can't connect to Internet at the moment...using my phone to surf at the moment )

 

[4rings2snails]

I'll look for whatever you have on Crisler's findings. I'll check this thread throughout the day for it. I'm on board with everything you said Doc.

 

[DreDay187]

I'll look for whatever you have on Crisler's findings. I'll check this thread throughout the day for it. I'm on board with everything you said Doc.

Here's an older article by him about scheduling Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) shots. I believe he has changed some of his views since then but I'll keep digging for info

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/HCGupdate.doc

 

[4rings2snails]

Here's an older article by him about scheduling Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) shots. I believe he has changed some of his views since then but I'll keep digging for info

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/HCGupdate.doc

OK...That was a good lesson on the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) from his perspective. And I find it interesting that he adjusted dosage timing and made a change. Seems to my uneducated brain to make sense with switching to 250IU/2x/week commencing 48 hours and again 24 hours prior to pin.

Now does that regimen change for test ethanate as opposed to his use of cypionate? Seems like timing of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is immensely critical with regard to his research and I would presume that when the ester varies then so too might the administration of the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) with respect to timing. Your thoughts?

Also, did you come across any more recent docs of Crisler's that might have more alterations to his position?

 

[McDaddySanchez]

Need some advice...I decided to hold off on the npp for now and just run test mast and hcg....problem...low sex drive...could it be from e2 spike caused my hcg? Or is it possible the mast has lowered my E to much? Gunna get blood work in the AM....debating if I should take .5adex to see if it improves..

 

[McDaddySanchez]

bumo