PCT Anxiety and Help ASAP

[loupags1]

Hey guys I'm hoping you can help me. Im sorry to overlaod you with so much on this but I really want to get this right. I'm a 55 year old male 196lbs 5'10" and low body fat. I did a 14-week cycle of testosterone cypionate at 200 mg every 4 days. I did my last pin 3 weeks ago and thought I started the right PCT based off of what I was told to do.

Since I'm having some anxiety, moody, slight depression and low libio, I got blood work done a few days ago. I just got me bloods back and here are the results:

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS: 315 Range : 250-1100 ng/dL
FSH : 1.0 Range : 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH : <0.2 Range : 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
ESTRADIOL : 22 Range : < OR = 39 pg/mL
HEMOGLOBIN : 17.5 Range : 13.2-17.1 g/dL 01
HEMATOCRIT 51.8 Range : 38.5-50.0 % 01

Is there any blood results missing that you would need? I included the Hemoglobin and Hematocrit since they were all listed as high in range. Not sure if they are important or not.

To recap, my last pin was August 21st and was only 150 mg of Test Cyp. I did a cycle of 200mg every 4 days for 14 weeks. I took Aromasin 12.5 EOD starting at mid cycle when my boods came back that my Estradiol was 88 and Total Test was 2430. After last pin I started the Testosterone Booster calles HCGenerate on August 22nd and taking Aromasin 12.5 EOD. I only did the Aromasin twice more after last pin stopping it on August 25th. Then on Spetember 3rd ,9 days later I started feeling the anxiety, moody and slight depression. So on Septmeber 4th I stated the Aromasin again of 12.5 EOD. I took it on the 6th the day before these bloods were takin. This seemed to make me feel better. So then my Blood was taken on September 7th. Since I was still feeling pretty good I didn't take the Aromasin again for 3 days since I was a afraid I could crash my Estrogen not knowing what my levels were currently. But on the 4th day of not taking it, I had the anxiety again, moody as hell and felt very emotional again. So I took the Aromasin again, 12.5. I felt a little better yesterday. Today I'm do to take it again. So now I have my bloods back and I'm even more confused. It appaers that my Estradiol is right in range or maybe border line low. My Test seems to low for my age of 55? My FSH and LH are still crashed. So could the low Test be causing the anxiety and emotional feeling or is it do to my hormones are on a rollercoaster up and down? I'm confused because when I had the anxiety and crappy feelings start, I would take the Aromasin and I felt better the next day making me think my estrogen was high. Or is it that the Aromsion Is doing the job on the Estrogen and I need to stick with it more consistently and not take it so sparatic thougout my PCT? I havle 20mg Nolva Capsules that I planned on taking 2 weeks after my last pin but because of these problems I'm afraid to take anything else that may make me worse. I heard to many bad sides from Clomid so thats why I was gonna just take the Nolva. Now I'm over 3 weeks from my last pin. What are your thoughts.?? Also should I do Clomid and Nolvadex or would the Nolvadex but good enough to jump start my LH and testosterone again??

FYI here are my Mid Bloods taken on July 6th FYI before taking an AI.

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS : 2430 Range : 250-1100 ng/dL
FSH : <0.7 Range : 1.6-8.0 mIU
LH : <0.2 Range : 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL 01
ESTRADIOL : 88 Range : < OR = 39 pg/mL

Thanks for any help you can offer me cuz I need it.....

 

[T-RexAlpha]

YOUR FIRST CYCLE:
NOTE:-The only androgen used will be testosterone.This is to see how your body reacts to exogenous androgens and how prone your body is to the various side effects.

Let's start
Testosterone ethanate 500mg per week(250mg on Monday and 250 mg on Thursday ) for 12 weeks
Exemestane 12.5mg everyday 15 weeks
Hcg 500iu per week(250iu along with testosterone injection) 12 weeks
Hcg 1000iu everyday for the last 10 days of your cycle leading up to your pct

Now after your last shot you need to wait for 2.5 weeks to let the testosterone clear out of your system before you start the most important part of your cycle THE POST CYCLE THERAPY or PCT for short .The quality of you pct is what determines how much of your new muscle will stay with you provided you eat rite and train hard


THE PCT
Clomafene Citrate 50mg everyday for 4 weeks
Tamoxifen citrate 40mg every day 2 weeks followed by 20mg everyday for 2 weeks

Now 3 weeks after your pct get your blood work done again to see how well your recovery is going by comparing you hormonal levels to the work you had done pre cycle

Bloodwork- When:
1. A week before starting your cycle
2. 5 weeks into your cycle
3. 1 week after your pct

Note:-*Get your blood work done before you start.This is to monitor the recovery of your natural testosterone levels

Blood work includes:-
Free testosterone*
Overall testosterone*
Estrogen
E2
LH

Taken from: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ycling-beginners-guide-safe-androgen-use.html

 

[T-RexAlpha]

LH (luteinizing hormone)

LH - 3-8mIU/ml. This is luteinizing hormone, and it is produced by the gonadotropic cells in the pituitary glands. It's main function is signaling the body to produce testosterone, and it is the most important number to know if your HPTA is functioning well. A low level of LH when you are off cycle means your HPTA is not functioning well, and it is not producing enough testosterone. Nevertheless, there is no need to panic, as this is the recovery phase, and you should just wait until your LH has fully recovered before starting your next cycle. Obviously, on cycle your LH will drop to near 0, as your pituitary glands go dormant, which is completely is normal.

FSH (follicle stimulating hormone)

FSH - 2.5-12mIU/ml. FSH stands for follicle stimulating hormone, and it is also produced by the gonadotrophs of the pituitary glands. As a matter of fact, FSH works in synergy with LH and regulates pubertal maturation, growth, development, and reproductive processes in the body. Like with LH on cycle, it will drop to near 0, and off cycle a low number is not a good sign. Therefore, once you start abusing steroids you will notice your FSH never returns to its original levels. Even though low levels of FSH can be attributed to getting older, steroid abuse will prevent a healthy number in long term, and it might possibly impact and reduce your chances to have children later in life.

Total testosterone

Total testosterone - 350-950ng/dl.Testosterone is a male hormone(androgen) in the blood that affects sexual features and development. Unlike LH and FSH, testosterone is produced by our testes (leydig cells). However, you must keep in mind that this number fluctuates, being the highest in the morning and the lowest in the evening. Naturally, as men age, this number will start dropping. In fact, men who have low testosterone typically have problems with increased fat gains, inability to build muscle, low libido, and other issues. On the flip side, if you abuse steroids and your testosterone is too high for long periods of time, it can strain your heart and cause spikes in estrogen levels, causing estrogenic side effects.

Free testosterone

Free testosterone - 32-150pg/ml. This is going to be a ratio of your total testosterone and is considered your actual 'free' testosterone, not bound. Typically, it is not worth the extra money to check, because it will be a % of your total testosterone. In other words, if your total testosterone is in range, then free testosterone will be as well in almost all cases. Moreover, the same goes for the cases when it is high or low.

Estradiol

Estradiol 15-50pg/ml. Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen in the body. It is important to outline that males need estrogen to function, so I disagree with people who say estradiol can be below 15, which is too low. I would like to see levels over 15pg/ml. However, with levels higher than 50pg/ml you can expect water retention, and even puffy nips or sore breasts associated with gynecomastia symptoms. In such case, an aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin is necessary to keep this number in check, but you shouldn't abuse it either and drop your estrogen too low ***8211; it is essential to maintain a balance.

 

[loupags1]

Thanks T-RexAlpha this is great information. I'm going on 23 days since my last pin. I am having so much anxiety that I ended up telling my internal medicine doctor about it and that I used gear the 14 weeks. Of he doesn't like the idea that I jucied but he is a really cool doctor and always willing to help me. So of course he is against me taking more hormone adjusting medicines like Clomid and Nolva to help get me back up to par. What are your thoughts will I eventually get back up to normal if I don't do the nolva and Clomid and if so how long do you think it will take. I just want to get rid of this anxiety feeling because it makes you feel really crappy

 

[T-RexAlpha]

Bro listen to me, I dont care what your doctor said, get on PCT now!! And no they will not eventually go back to normal. Testosterone tells the body to stop producing its natural test. Clomid, tells the testicles tells them to start producing, in a sense aka nut shell.


HCG :-
The main focus with HCG is to restore the normal ability of the testes to respond to endogenous luteinizing hormone. After a long period of inactivity, this ability may have been seriously reduced. In such a state testosterone levels may not reach a normal point, even though the release of endogenous LH has been resumed. Many who have suffered severe testicular shrinkage may be able to relate, as it is often some time before normal testicle size and feelings of virility are restored if ancillary drugs had not been used. The excessive stimulation brought forth by administration of HCG can likewise cause the testicles to rapidly return to their normal size and level of activity. We are not simply looking for it to fix the problem however, as the resulting high testosterone level can itself trigger negative feedback inhibition at the hypothalamus. Estrogen production is also heightened with the use of HCG, due to its ability to increase aromatase activity in the Leydig***8217;s cells. This is due to the main action of HCG, namely the increase of cycIicAMP (a secondary messenger that regulates cellular activity). When stimulated by HCG, the ability of the testes to aromatize androgens could potentially be heightened several times greater than normal. This also may inhibit testosterone production, so we therefore use HCG only as a quick shock to the testes.

CLOMAPHENE CITRATE :-

Clomid® is the commonly referenced brand name for the drug clomiphene citrate. It is not an anabolic steroid, but a prescription drug that blocks/minimises the effects of estrogen in the body. To be more specific Clomid is chemically a synthetic estrogen with both agonist/antagonist properties, and is very similar in structure and action to Nolvadex. In target tissues it can block the ability of estrogen to bind with its corresponding receptor. Its clinical use is therefore to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian axis, which enhances the release of LH and FSH.*

TAMOXIFEN CITRATE :-
tamoxifen citrate is a non-steroidal agent that demonstrates potent anti-estrogenic properties. The drug is technically an estrogen agonist/antagonist, which competitively binds to estrogen receptors in various target tissues. With the tamoxifen molecule bound to this receptor, estrogen is blocked from exerting any action, and an anti-estrogenic effect is achieved. Since many forms of breast cancer are responsive to estrogen, the ability of tamoxifen citrate to block its action in such cells has proven to be a very effective treatment. It is also utilized successfully as a preventative measure

EXEMESTANE :-
Belongs to a class of drugs called aromatase inhibitors
Developed to help fight breast cancer, Aromasin is one of the most powerful estrogen suppressing compounds available for body builders taking anabolic steroids. Additionally, it also raises testosterone in the body, which is a bonus for bodybuilders during post-cycle-therapy.It does this by premantly binding to the aromatase enzyme which causes the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. It's one the few aromatase inhibitors that can be used in conjunction with clomafene citrate and tamoxifen citrate without loss in effectiveness


THE PCT
Clomafene Citrate 50mg everyday for 4 weeks
Tamoxifen citrate 40mg every day 2 weeks followed by 20mg everyday for 2 weeks

Now 3 weeks after your pct get your blood work done again to see how well your recovery is going by comparing you hormonal levels to the work you had done pre cycle

 

[scorob777]

I can see a couple of obvious things based on your bloodwork.

1. You still have 315 test in your blood, so depending on where you were before you started you may be right about where your body is naturally at 55 yrs old. Your hypothalamus may not even be sensing a deficit yet, so isn't producing any GRH's which trigger LH and FSH. Main take away from this is you wouldn't really want to start PCT drugs before now, but right about now is a good time to start.

2. You are still suppressed as can be seen in your FSH and LH, this is no surprise.

3. Your hemoglobin and hematocrit are too high, you should go donate whole blood right away.

4. Estrogen is about right, to perhaps a bit low - but matches the low test. I'd knock of the aromasin, or if you want to take one or two more doses cut in half or 1/4. Is this the sensitive test? I see you had LC/MS on test. If so that's not a bad number.

If you had, or could get your hands on HCG, I'd start immediately taking 1,000 IU per day for 10 days. After 10 days take 50 clomid per day for 6 weeks, and 40 nolva per day for 4 weeks, the 20 per day for the last 2. If you don't have the HCG then start taking that clomid and nolva right now. Bump your first two weeks of clomid to 100 mg/day (this will help it work when you are still slightly high on test in your blood), then drop to 50/day for remaining time.

Suck it up on the anxiety, you are yo-yo ing your hormones all over the place, so relax and do the PCT and give it time. At 55 be prepared for shitty libido for three months it will take to fully recover your natural test, and be prepared to be underwhelmed. Once you've tasted high test again at your (our) age, it may be hard to go back, you might lean toward TRT vs. recovery.

 

[T-RexAlpha]

Main take away from this is you wouldn't really want to start PCT drugs before now, but right about now is a good time to start.

2. You are still suppressed as can be seen in your FSH and LH, this is no surprise.

3. Your hemoglobin and hematocrit are too high, you should go donate whole blood right away.

Great Advice, pay close attention to #3 especially, seriously get this done!