Pct
- Thread starter dragon06
- Start date
blackbeard
New member
what does your cycle look like?
blackbeard
New member
dragon06 said:
so run the standard clomid/nolva combo
was just curious..usually when you get questions about such things chances are you have questions about other things as well..but if you dont want any critique of your cycle thats fine..
50mg clomid 20 mg of nolva
3-6 weeks
blackbeard said:so run the standard clomid/nolva combo
was just curious..usually when you get questions about such things chances are you have questions about other things as well..but if you dont want any critique of your cycle thats fine..
50mg clomid 20 mg of nolva
3-6 weeks
Just couldnt remember what a clomid and nolva combo looked like. But 50mg of clomid and 20mg nolva for 3-6 weeks is definitly not it.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
dragon06 said:
Yes it does.......especially length of your cycle, but also what steroids used could make a difference.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Pheedno's post cycle therapy (pct)
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My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended post cycle therapy (pct) protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles
post cycle therapy (pct) for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex
Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual post cycle therapy (pct) duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:
1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is not used).
2. If your running a longer post cycle therapy (pct), clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of post cycle therapy (pct), the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex
Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of post cycle therapy (pct), since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended post cycle therapy (pct) protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles
post cycle therapy (pct) for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex
Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual post cycle therapy (pct) duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:
1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is not used).
2. If your running a longer post cycle therapy (pct), clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of post cycle therapy (pct), the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex
Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of post cycle therapy (pct), since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
jcp2
Community Veteran
I never liked the idea of adex in post cycle therapy (pct), i usually run 100mg a day of clomid starting a week before i am supposed to start it by "standard protocol". I run it until i am getting morning wood on a regular basis, and have a sex drive again, then i drop it down to 50mg for 10 days to 3 weeks depending on what i ran and for what duration. I remember reading an article a long time ago where it showed test levels climbing while on post cycle therapy (pct) and dropping again when it was discontinued, some say you can not really get test levels back to a constant normal without 6-8 weeks of post cycle therapy (pct), i am not sure i beleive that but i would probably overdue it than underdo post cycle therapy (pct).
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
dragon06 said:
An old myth..........
Arimidex at 1mg ED only cause a drop in E by about 50%, and that is in men not even on gear.
.....and Pheedno's post cycle therapy (pct) only calls for 0.25mg ED.
blackbeard
New member
Great article SC ..thnx
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