Personal situation and questions (Help)

[Bolteriest]

I would like to introduce my situation for you guys, im 20 and ive been going to the gym for a year and an half (half a year was with friends and not a strict program, then i went alone seriously for a complete year with a strict program). During that year i went from 130lbs of bodyweight to 160lbs with a 13-15% bodyfat (started skinny, thus the mid-low bodyfat). My training regimen consists of doing a PPL, first 4 months i did this on a 4 day split, then proceed to up the days of training to 5-6 since i was bored on my rest days. All my lifts improved in weight and reps/sets, started the benchpress hardly doing 8 reps of 65, now i easly do 135 for 12reps and 155 for 8reps, same for my squats and deadlift.

Here is my Training program:

Push day: Chest: Barbell flat benchpress 4x8-12, Barbell inclined benchpress 4x8-12, Dumbbell inclined benchpress 4x8-12, Inclined chest flye 4x8-12 Shoulders: Military press 4x8, db shoulder press 4x8-12, laterals raises 4x12 Tricep: Pushdowns 4or5 sets of 12, Ez-bar tricep extension 4x12

Pull day: Back: pullups 4x8, lats pulldown followed by cable chinups 4x8-10, cable row 4x8, Barbell row 4x8 Biceps: cable curls 4or5 stes of 12, Ez-bar curl 4x10, db hammer curls 4x10

Legs day: Squats 4x8-10 Legpress 4x8-12 Calves raises 4x12 Leg curl for my Hamstrings (Used to do Deadlifts on that day but since a week i've been feeling a slight pain in my lower back so i've decided to cut it out until i feel better)

You might think why does a newbro come to this forum, and my anwser for you is I think this community is full of dedicated people and of people that exactly want to do what i want to do too, which is push themselves harder and be swole. My question for you guys is that i think ive maxed out my beginner gains and im finding myself not going up in weights in the gym anymore or really slowly, even thouh i have a 1000cal surplus (im even gaining more fat than anything now i think).
Each time i visit this forum and i see guys my age wanting to do gear, i ask myself if i should too? For months i've been reading on this forum and other websites about cycles, first cycles, pct, short and long term effects, and each time a young guys asks for advice he's anwsered like: "Focus on your diet and training program, worry about gear later at 25". And it's exactly what i want to know what should i improve in my training (what exercice, how many days,sets/reps wise)? How can i improve my diet? What can i do to get closer to my maximal potentiel naturally?

Im really thinking about going on a first cycle next summer (which by then i'll have 2 years of serious training under my belt) since i'll have a lot of free time (current job only on weekends and paying rather well) and i'll have 12 weeks free to start and finish my cycle. I've read alot about gear and first cycles, so if i was to do it i would do a 12 weeks cycle with dianabol to kickstart for 3-4 weeks with Test E 250mg E3D(week 1-12) than a week for the gear to wear off and finish off with a pct of Nolvadex. (Always with aromasin on hand in cause of gyno and such). Would that be a good first start?

PS: Also im not worried about injectable steroids, because im a student paramedic and im fine with needles.

 

[Milton]

Be sure to read all you can about the long term side effects that doing AAS at your age of 20 can have.

 

[Bolteriest]

Boys:

stunted growth: I've stopped my height growth about 1-2 years
accelerated puberty: pretty much finished it
abnormal sexual development: ???
development of breasts: gyno which can be controlled with an AI
liver disease / liver cancer: from what i understand 1,2 or even three cycles are not going to wreck my liver with a good pct
shrinking of the testicles: caused by the stopped natural production of test, normal side effect i guess

What else should i be worry about if i'm going to do it seriously?

 

[Milton]

Boys:

stunted growth: I've stopped my height growth about 1-2 years
accelerated puberty: pretty much finished it
abnormal sexual development: ???
development of breasts: gyno which can be controlled with an AI
liver disease / liver cancer: from what i understand 1,2 or even three cycles are not going to wreck my liver with a good pct
shrinking of the testicles: caused by the stopped natural production of test, normal side effect i guess

What else should i be worry about if i'm going to do it seriously?

Your brain will never be able to fully develop so you'll be like the rest of the sheep....to the slaughter.

 

[Bolteriest]

is that a real side effect, because i couldnt find it on the internet, also i thought steroids messed your endocrine system not your nervous system?

 

[gruntwerk]

Boys:

stunted growth: I've stopped my height growth about 1-2 years
accelerated puberty: pretty much finished it
abnormal sexual development: ???
development of breasts: gyno which can be controlled with an AI
liver disease / liver cancer: from what i understand 1,2 or even three cycles are not going to wreck my liver with a good pct
shrinking of the testicles: caused by the stopped natural production of test, normal side effect i guess

What else should i be worry about if i'm going to do it seriously?

I'll try to find the info Milton is speaking of and share the link.

There is some evidence that supraphysiological levels of testosterone can impair the cognitive development of ones brain if they use it at a young age. Not sure what exactly can happen from that, but I'll try to find the link.

There is also the issue of growth plates - well one may be done growing in terms of height they may not be done growing in stature. This means you could still grow wider shoulders, things of this nature, the hormones force the plates to close. Best way to think of this is a female... well a girl at the age of 18 may very well be done growing in terms of height, take a peak at her when she's 23-24 and still the same height, OR after childbearing. There will be a large difference in her hips, this is the same principle of what's taking place.

With that said there is a lot of guys on here that started real young and they're okay, at least they say they are... but a lot of them are on TRT at a relatively young age, or blasting and cruising which is still the same principle. This is where the risk vs. reward plays in, at a young age your nitrogen retention, IGF-1, and testosterone are so high naturally that it's almost crazy to bother shutting yourself down, you're already synthesizing protein faster and healing faster then someone who is over 25.

There is a risk when you cycle at any age in terms of your endocrine system, some guys will never bounce back to normal T levels from one cycle well some guys can run multiple cycles and recover each time... it's really a throw of the dice.

So you will have to ask yourself this.... are you okay with TRT for life, ALREADY? Remember you're young so it will be for a long time.

 

[soldier74]

Building muscle takes time brother. Let me say that again: BUILDING MUSCLE TAKES TIME. 2 years is just scratching the surface for real...if that. At your age, yes you do have several more years of natty gains, muscle gains, you CAN make. Put in the work, reap the benefits. This is a patient man's game bro. Even on gear, it still takes time to build muscle. Sure you can swell up with water weight and look like a roid head, but that won't last and it's not the gains your looking for is it? If I were you I would just keep pressing on, the route you are currently on. Clean up your diet a bit. The gains will come..slowly but surely. Gear will always be there. Anyways, you will blink a couple times and next thing u know, you will be 24-25..lol. Time flies! Welcome to Ology and good luck newbro

 

[Gainjin260]

I lifted like a beast from 19-25, natural. I'm 36 now and have a cycled. I'm no where near as strong or as big as I was natty at 25. Don't shut down your natural production until after it has peaked- around age 25.

 

[LJCatBrah]

Unless you have a legitimate medical condition, your test levels are higher at 20-21 than they are going to be the rest of your life.

In other words, if you can't gain naturally now, you're essentially saying you're going to need drugs the rest of your life to make any progress.

Give it a couple more years (at least)

 

[Bolteriest]

Thanks a lot for everyone taking the care to explain to me the risk associated with steroids, i think i'll wait til 25 before using, but still om going to get bloodwork to see if my test levels are okay. (i'm pretty sure they are since i've put 30lbs in about 9-12 months)

Also how does one talk his doctor to have bloodwork,I don't know how to exactly ask for bloodwork to my doctor should i talk about steroids? I heard a guy say that saying something like: "tried a new testosterone booster and i feel moody and my nipples are hard" Would it be appropriate?

 

[oldmusclemike]

Unless you have a legitimate medical condition, your test levels are higher at 20-21 than they are going to be the rest of your life.

In other words, if you can't gain naturally now, you're essentially saying you're going to need drugs the rest of your life to make any progress.

Give it a couple more years (at least)

First welcome to the board
Unbelievable so at your age and only two years in you with your exceptional knowledge of all this know that you have reached your natty potential. Give me a break kid. If you are not gaining LMM as an ectomorph then you don't know how to train and eat and rest. That's it period.

But it seems you know more then us about the ramifications of AAS at age 20. Hell some of these guys you've come you to for advice have been in this longer then you are alive. People are tired of me telling my age so look at my profile.

Ya know stupid is and stupid does but Simple Simon says I'll educate before I medicate. I'll listen to the ones who have done it all over and over by experience AND book knowledge. That is what we call wisdom kid....

Listen what counts is growing lean muscle mass and all this other 20 - 30 lbs is just water. Only to loose when you learn what looks good and big. Get this... in regard to building LMM a man can only grow 15 - 20 lbs of LMM in a whole year. Look that up.. it's true.

Keep eating n get a diet from someone who knows ( 3j on here) and learn how to train. Because that's what you need when you cycle. Steroid do not do it , grow it, build it...YOU DO with what I've stated.

Now good luck educating and training.

 

[Milton]

Also how does one talk his doctor to have bloodwork,I don't know how to exactly ask for bloodwork to my doctor should i talk about steroids? I heard a guy say that saying something like: "tried a new testosterone booster and i feel moody and my nipples are hard" Would it be appropriate?

thats a tactical approach.

 

[halfwit]

Thanks a lot for everyone taking the care to explain to me the risk associated with steroids, i think i'll wait til 25 before using, but still om going to get bloodwork to see if my test levels are okay. (i'm pretty sure they are since i've put 30lbs in about 9-12 months)

Also how does one talk his doctor to have bloodwork,I don't know how to exactly ask for bloodwork to my doctor should i talk about steroids? I heard a guy say that saying something like: "tried a new testosterone booster and i feel moody and my nipples are hard" Would it be appropriate?

You don't talk to your doctor. You go to Privatemdlabs.com, choose the "female menopause test" that's like sixty bucks, and get your results a few days after you get your blood taken.

You don't involve a doctor unless there's a problem with this stuff. Like for instance,if your results come back low - then you should have a talk with the doc; discussing symptoms and letting them draw the conclusion with some careful guidance to getting hormones tested.

 

[organdoner]

if you went from 130lbs to 160lbs in a year and a half then you must be doing something 1/2 way right. there are many who are not ready to cross over that would like to make those gains. my opinion is to not let anyone tell you that you have reached your genetic limit etc. forget the gear and stay natural and keep pushing the limit to go even further making improvements. at your age use that money to invest in you. career, hobby whatever plan is best for the future. the time will come for you when you are ready. take time to get educated and work on you. life skills. that gear ain't goin no where. it'll be there when you are ready. take more time to naturally get better. do not respond to everyone who all of a sudden wants to sell you something. for all who care about this bro look out for him. keep us posted on your progress. .

 

[bigben66]

My advice would be to hire a muscle specific PT - choose one with a background in bodybuilding (natural) and someone who can structure a progressive bulking diet plan for you too.

At a guess, and I don't know you from Adam - you could make years more natty gains just by tweaking your program and raising workout intensity and cleaning up exercise technique.

There are many members in here who swear by the powerlifting approach to lifting - and each to their own - but from where I'm sat, there are many gains to be had by mastering mind/muscle connection and learning to contract all of the target muscles efficiently.

Remember: on chest day you walk through the doors to obliterate the pecs - you have no other goal but to break down the pec muscle fibres and then eat, rest and grow - so.... don't be one of the 90% of guys that forget this target as soon as they roll onto a bench underneath the bar and suddenly start caressing their ego!

 

[oldmusclemike]

My advice would be to hire a muscle specific PT - choose one with a background in bodybuilding (natural) and someone who can structure a progressive bulking diet plan for you too.

At a guess, and I don't know you from Adam - you could make years more natty gains just by tweaking your program and raising workout intensity and cleaning up exercise technique.
There are many members in here who swear by the powerlifting approach to lifting - and each to their own - but from where I'm sat, there are many gains to be had by mastering mind/muscle connection and learning to contract all of the target muscles efficiently.

Remember: on chest day you walk through the doors to obliterate the pecs - you have no other goal but to break down the pec muscle fibres and then eat, rest and grow - so.... don't be one of the 90% of guys that forget this target as soon as they roll onto a bench underneath the bar and suddenly start caressing their ego!

This ^^^ Bigben hit on a subject that I learned long ago in Arnolds Book. The mind and muscle connection. I've mentioned this in other posts. It's hard to do but doing your exercises and concentrating on feeling the muscle, being conscious of what target muscle you are working and peak contraction of it makes all the difference in the world.

There are so many other muscles as well as momentum that we use to move the weight we sometimes loose the mental connection what we are trying to accomplish. That isn't always to lift as heavy as we can and get the weight from top to bottom. I can do a lot of training sometimes and not feel much in the targeted muscle, huh? what's wrong?

Well what was I thinking of while I contracted positive and stayed tight felling the negative. There is a time when we cheat to get used to heavier weigh and use more of our body to lift it, ok but not all the time. There is that time of heavy cheats.

I just wanted to add to what bigben said about the mind n muscle. Thanks bigben!

 

[Milton]

Thanks a lot for everyone taking the care to explain to me the risk associated with steroids, i think i'll wait til 25 before using, but still om going to get bloodwork to see if my test levels are okay. (i'm pretty sure they are since i've put 30lbs in about 9-12 months)

Also how does one talk his doctor to have bloodwork,I don't know how to exactly ask for bloodwork to my doctor should i talk about steroids? I heard a guy say that saying something like: "tried a new testosterone booster and i feel moody and my nipples are hard" Would it be appropriate?

you really sound like your full of it. Read the board rules before posting anymore.

 

[bigben66]

To cut a long story short...

Bench Press:

A powerlifter will lie under the bar and lift the weight at any cost - for strength gains - which is great.
He will lift that weight with multiple bodyparts, with the pecs, front delts, triceps and to a lesser extent, back, legs and glutes (due to high back arch)

A bodybuilder 'should' lie on that bench with totally different intent. Remember, his sole focus is to destroy the pecs, and tear down muscle fibres. His abdominal wall should be tight, his back as flat as possible, scapula retracted. He mentally should be switching off his triceps, visually imagining bending the bar as he drives his hands inwards contracting the pectorals. Shoulders should be low, taking front delts as far out of the equation as possible. Tempo should be much more controlled, time under tension on the eccentric part of the rep is extended.

His main goal is to engage the working muscle as soon as the rep commences, and reach full and strong contraction as the muscle is fully shortened. And repeat.

I hope the above scenario paints a picture to you OP - as to how you could constructively make advancements rather than taking the easy option of jumping on gear far too early in your young life.

 

[oldmusclemike]

To cut a long story short...

Bench Press:

A powerlifter will lie under the bar and lift the weight at any cost - for strength gains - which is great.
He will lift that weight with multiple bodyparts, with the pecs, front delts, triceps and to a lesser extent, back, legs and glutes (due to high back arch)

A bodybuilder 'should' lie on that bench with totally different intent. Remember, his sole focus is to destroy the pecs, and tear down muscle fibres. His abdominal wall should be tight, his back as flat as possible, scapula retracted. He mentally should be switching off his triceps, visually imagining bending the bar as he drives his hands inwards contracting the pectorals. Shoulders should be low, taking front delts as far out of the equation as possible. Tempo should be much more controlled, time under tension on the eccentric part of the rep is extended.

His main goal is to engage the working muscle as soon as the rep commences, and reach full and strong contraction as the muscle is fully shortened. And repeat.

I hope the above scenario paints a picture to you OP - as to how you could constructively make advancements rather than taking the easy option of jumping on gear far too early in your young life.

Awesome counsel ! Excellent description of the way a BB'er should be thinking as he lifts and targets a specific muscle. I wish I could of explained it as good as that. Good for all us BB's to re-think as we head into the gym.