Post cycle therapy (pct) stopped working?

[berealjohn]

Is that even possible?

Yes it's possible! I can read the bottom line and beyond on the Snellen chart a 20’ away. The Snellen chart stops at 20/10 however I can see object even smaller than the bottom line of chart. I have had ophthalmolologists estimate my vision at 20/7, no shit. It is an over compensation for my hearing loss. I can not hear worth a fuk! Which has it's advantages, I hear what I wanna hear!

 

[berealjohn]

Roccodart, can you still cock curl that 135 on your avatar during pct, If so you a mean MOFO! Or was that a personal best? LMFOA

 

[mikefear]

might wanna throw some AIFM in there, too

 

[gilreuven]

Sounds like estrogen rebound shut you back down. Add an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (i recommend aromasin highly). Continue nolva and see where your at in a few weeks.

does estrogen has a longer half life comparing to testosterone .
and if not how can you explain estrogen rebound ?

 

[gilreuven]

I may do something like this. I've decided this week rather than go to 30mg tamox I only dropped to 40mg. Next week i'll drop to 30mg and may add some clomid at that point.

Keep in mind guys those numbers are in tamoxifen and not nolvadex. 20mg nolva=30mg tamox

whats the diffrence ?

 

[berealjohn]

does estrogen has a longer half life comparing to testosterone .
and if not how can you explain estrogen rebound ?

Both male & females have test & estrogen in the body. We males have much more testosterone than females and females Visa versa estrogen. In the male if endogenous testosterone is suppression by negative feed in HPTA from AAS. estrogen builds in addition to exdigenous test will aromatize or convert to estrogen. So in short High levels of estrogen will build up in a males body, making him a big girly man until endo's level off!

 

[roccodart440]

whats the diffrence ?

DOn't ask me why because I forgot but 20mg nolvadex is = to 30mg liquid tamox.

 

[BigRonWannabee]

does estrogen has a longer half life comparing to testosterone .
and if not how can you explain estrogen rebound ?

Theres 2 reasons why guys rebound so fucking bad. First, bad estro maintenance when on. They let estro levels soar, and then when they cut off thier supply of androgens whats left? A big steaming vat of estrogen. Reason two, they use adex and lower estrogen, and when its use is stopped levels of E skyrocket.

 

[roccodart440]

Theres 2 reasons why guys rebound so fucking bad. First, bad estro maintenance when on. They let estro levels soar, and then when they cut off thier supply of androgens whats left? A big steaming vat of estrogen. Reason two, they use adex and lower estrogen, and when its use is stopped levels of E skyrocket.

Well I let it skyrocket at times and others used adex. What do you recomend?

 

[gator_mclusky]

And why would that be? I have plenty friends who use it during cycle and during post cycle therapy (pct) also. Most say they come back quicker and dont loose that much.
Will be using it in a couple of weeks with nolva.

To each their own. We never felt the need for slin unless one was competing(even then those werent the guys i trained with and they didnt look any better than us.) these days. Ive seen two people use slin and became dependant for life. They have to shoot slin every day just to be normal now. In other words they have become insulin dependant.

To each their own. If it works for ya then run with it. Just be damned careful.I personally have never needed it and am very pleased with the results I've obtained over the yrs.

Back to the topic.......

Gator

 

[BigRonWannabee]

Well I let it skyrocket at times and others used adex. What do you recomend?

high estrogen leads to high shbg. Some will always make the arguement that estro is GOOD, sure but remember a little bit goes a long way. I recommend not using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during your cycles unless you either bloat badly or have issues with estrogen itself such as gyno sesitivity. Remember, the AI's do cause your lipids to get a little out of wack. What I would do, is ALWAYS use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during post cycle therapy (pct), and use aromasin as the prefered Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Not only has it been shown to help raise T levels, but its an effective Aromatase inhibitor (AI) that irriversaly binds to aromatase when it finds it in the body. That means no rebound upon discontinuation.

If all this is kinda wishy washy, ill put it this way. I recently came off a decent cycle, 2+g's with a nice tren enanthate finisher and almost always over a gram of test. I was on for,, ehh who knows I forgot. Case in point, ive been using a tamox/clomid blend for post cycle therapy (pct) and using 12.5mg aromasin the whole way through. Its now the 3rd week of post cycle therapy (pct), and I feel great. Libido is down a tad but not in the dirt (where letro would put it). Mood is fine, smooth sailing so far.

 

[roccodart440]

Hold up now. YOu just said you wouldn't use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while on and you did? I used it because of high blood presure caused by test nd gyno sensitivity. I stoppped at times for strength competing purposes. badsicly to bloat like a blalloon for strength.

What is so different about aromasin vs. A-dex?

Why does swale say not to use a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in PCT? What's the theory on that?

 

[berealjohn]

I'd like to hear more about aromasin. It looks promising to me because > LDL is not listed as a lab consideration, however AST, ALT values are listed. LDL is my main reason for opting tamox over an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) whilst on.

 

[Mudge]

Takes time for the drugs to clear your system in terms of hormonal levels, so even when you are starting post cycle therapy (pct) you still have test flowing through your system.

 

[berealjohn]

Yea, test-e terminal elimination is around 9-10 weeks or better said 5 X it's half life. I did 5 weeks post cycle therapy (pct) started 10 days post. One week off post cycle therapy (pct) on I wish I had stay on post cycle therapy (pct) another week. I am considering hitting an anti-e for another few weeks for am am holding alot of water about the waist by the days end. I hate that shit!

 

[roccodart440]

Water retention is such a double edged sword.

 

[BigRonWannabee]

Sorry i meant i was using aromasin thw whole way through PCT, not my cycle. Aromasin as a suicidal inhibitor of the enzyme aromatase. Once it binds to aromatase, that singular enzyme is gone forever. Adex on the other hand selectively binds and unbinds to aromatase in the body. So when you stop taking it, you are no long binding aromatase, and all of the previously bound aromatase if still in circulation will eventually unbind. Leaving you with well, a lot of aromatase and many times, a big rebound in estrogen.

 

[berealjohn]

Have you ever ran aromasin alone after post cycle therapy (pct) to eliminate systemic estrogen? If so what effects do you think one could expect? I thinking I need to remove some estradiol. Tamox will stop it's retake, but I am thinking about it's inhibition completely for a few day.

 

[roccodart440]

So aromasin is a better Aromatase inhibitor (AI) than a-dex is what it really boils down to as far as Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users go?

 

[ZippyPinhead]

THe 1st week after my cycle I went on nolvadex 40mgs. I felt great.

2nd week 40mgs. Felt great. Weight was still up, sex drive decenht and strong as a ox. Making gains beyond where I was on cycle.

3rd week. WHen nearing the 3 week mark and entering the 3 week mark I noticed my nuts seemed smaller. Maybe just tighter to my body for come reason. Sex drive has fallen way off. Bad. I'm using 20mgs now but started feeling this on 40mgs so I don't think dose is the issue. I also feel very tired the past few days. I think i'm a bit overtrainined in the chest. My CNS is shot right now.

What's going on?

Bro, this sounds terrible. First, sorry to hear about this Estro rebound.
Have you thought that maybe your Tamoxi is fucked? I mean, maye if reputable source, may have shit batch? This does happen. Get another batch ASAP.

Also, many on here may not agree because it's OTC, but try 3,6,17-Androstenetrione, and don't do the pussy dosages... start with 1000 mg/d and ramp up to 3000 mg/d. I use the House of Muscle.com product (much better), not Ergopharm.

When I use this in PCT, I get acne, strength gains, and wake-up woodies every morning. The proof of Test rebound is in the woodie.