Pre-cycle labs, low T issues, Thyroid.. etc

[gruntwerk]

Hey guys if you remember from the old thread I was asking about using an AI well OFF cycle to boost normal test, as I feel like I have low T. My doc would only order a testostorone panel and no e2 or FH/FSH until they seen what the labs bring, also had some funny thyroid tests... came back high on TSH and T4 by a touch. I want to know what you guys think of these labs, it also shows how low my hemoglobin and hematocrit have gotten before eating healthy again. I wonder if the low values there relate to low T? Issue is my total T is real low, and my free t is the low end of normal. I have to go meet with my doc in a few days and want to know what tests I should ask for, trying to get this doc to order anything is tough as my normal docs on vacation until June.

Just so everyone knows I also plan to start my first cycle June 1st, I am currently cutting a little more BF and trying to sort out these labs before I do anything. Also want to know your guys input on TRT for my T levels? I suffer from all the typical symptoms and it sucks......

Side note:

My PSL stuff came today and these guys have been on point, I know we can't discuss T/A but lets say its FAST from over seas. Only thing they did do was send me a different brand HCG then I ordered, as I ordered the europharm and they sent me shree. Leads me to my last question, I got an extra bottle of test e from them just because and I was comparing it too the other bottles from the other UGL and the euro is much more clear and the Geneza is yellow tinted, is this just an oil thing? I had ordered the other test prior to learning about PSL as they have good reviews then ordered the rest of what I needed from PSL and will continue to use PSL now.

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[Milton]

Looking forward to your logs.

 

[gruntwerk]

and total TT as well as TSH.

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[gruntwerk]

Can I get a bump..? Megaton or halfwit you two out there?

You fellas always seem very knowledgable on labs, hormones, TRT... Endocrine system etc.

To add a question to my list above - will gaining lean mass and losing BF become easier with normal test levels vs. super low at 149? Seems like just being in the 500 range would make things much better.

 

[Megatron28]

Can I get a bump..? Megaton or halfwit you two out there?

You fellas always seem very knowledgable on labs, hormones, TRT... Endocrine system etc.

To add a question to my list above - will gaining lean mass and losing BF become easier with normal test levels vs. super low at 149? Seems like just being in the 500 range would make things much better.

How about listing your lab work results? That is a lot of pics to click on an try to remember the results.

 

[gruntwerk]

How about listing your lab work results? That is a lot of pics to click on an try to remember the results.

Sorry, I see what you mean could be confusing. Going by date:
4-07-16
- TSH: 5.39 UIU/ML (H)
- Hematocrit: 42.5%
- Free Test: 0.60 ng/dL
- Total Test: 149.1 ng/dL (L) WTF?
- Hemoglobin: 13.1%
4-08-16
- TSH; 4.23 UIU/ML (barely high)
- Free Thyroxine: 1.71 ng/dL (barely high)

I have to call and push today for more tests, now that my TT came back low I should be able to get the e2 and FH, FSH tested. I have a history or hematocrit and hemoglobin being all over and sometimes super low. I've felt like I've had low T for a few years now.

 

[halfwit]

Sorry, I see what you mean could be confusing. Going by date:
4-07-16
- TSH: 5.39 UIU/ML (H)
- Hematocrit: 42.5%
- Free Test: 0.60 ng/dL
- Total Test: 149.1 ng/dL (L) WTF?
- Hemoglobin: 13.1%
4-08-16
- TSH; 4.23 UIU/ML (barely high)
- Free Thyroxine: 1.71 ng/dL (barely high)

I have to call and push today for more tests, now that my TT came back low I should be able to get the e2 and FH, FSH tested. I have a history or hematocrit and hemoglobin being all over and sometimes super low. I've felt like I've had low T for a few years now.

Wow, I bet you feel like absolute SHIT! You're only a couple points higher than I was, and I suffered all sorts of issues as a result of being there for so long.

You DO have hypogonadism, NO question about it.

The question now becomes what do YOU (not your doctor) want to do about it? Remember, he works for you, and ultimately it's YOUR call on how to proceed.

You're currently in a situation where you can investigate WHY you're suffering from hypogonadism, and determine if you're primary or secondary. This matters, because it will determine what course of action you take next. It will also stop you from having to go through any unnecessary additional tests/protocols if you're say, primary.

To find out which you are, LH and FSH are needed. These hormones are a pretty good indicator if the cause is your pituitary, or if it's something else. Bad doctors will push straight up for TRT without testing for these. That means if you want to know for your own information which category you fall into, you'll have to baseline yourself (cease ALL treatment), and get another test. The caveat of this being that if you've been on TRT for any appreciable time, you may become secondary on top of being primary.

This is why it's important to act NOW and make that decision. I know all too well how tempting it is to just focus on the problem and want to fix it ASAP. Trust me when I say it's easier to go for the additional tests now, before you KNOW what you're missing out on. I'd honestly fight tooth and nail if I was told I had to abandon TRT at this point; as I have completely changed my life 1000% for the better.

HCT and your TSH should hopefully normalize once you start replacing your testosterone, so I'd honestly put those on the back burner for now, unless tests show otherwise, like potentially adrenal fatigue sapping your system.

Until you know your LH and FSH on top of estradiol (maybe prolactin), I wouldn't waste any more time focusing on other tests. The results from this will point you in the right direction, such as an MRI of your pituitary, looking for varicoceles, etc.

Hang in there, the solution is definitely on the horizon, and you're just a few steps away from being yourself once again.

My .02c

 

[Megatron28]

Definitely don't start a cycle now. Get your Hypogonadism dealt with first. Time for cycles later.

 

[gruntwerk]

Wow, I bet you feel like absolute SHIT! You're only a couple points higher than I was, and I suffered all sorts of issues as a result of being there for so long.

You DO have hypogonadism, NO question about it.

The question now becomes what do YOU (not your doctor) want to do about it? Remember, he works for you, and ultimately it's YOUR call on how to proceed.

You're currently in a situation where you can investigate WHY you're suffering from hypogonadism, and determine if you're primary or secondary. This matters, because it will determine what course of action you take next. It will also stop you from having to go through any unnecessary additional tests/protocols if you're say, primary.

To find out which you are, LH and FSH are needed. These hormones are a pretty good indicator if the cause is your pituitary, or if it's something else. Bad doctors will push straight up for TRT without testing for these. That means if you want to know for your own information which category you fall into, you'll have to baseline yourself (cease ALL treatment), and get another test. The caveat of this being that if you've been on TRT for any appreciable time, you may become secondary on top of being primary.

This is why it's important to act NOW and make that decision. I know all too well how tempting it is to just focus on the problem and want to fix it ASAP. Trust me when I say it's easier to go for the additional tests now, before you KNOW what you're missing out on. I'd honestly fight tooth and nail if I was told I had to abandon TRT at this point; as I have completely changed my life 1000% for the better.

HCT and your TSH should hopefully normalize once you start replacing your testosterone, so I'd honestly put those on the back burner for now, unless tests show otherwise, like potentially adrenal fatigue sapping your system.

Until you know your LH and FSH on top of estradiol (maybe prolactin), I wouldn't waste any more time focusing on other tests. The results from this will point you in the right direction, such as an MRI of your pituitary, looking for varicoceles, etc.

Hang in there, the solution is definitely on the horizon, and you're just a few steps away from being yourself once again.

My .02c

Thanks a ton for the detailed reply man, means a lot! Helps to give me direction.

As for the labs you suggest I'm going to call the office in just a moment to let them know, with my doc being out I believe the part time doc is loaded up and didn't even know the results on TT were in. When I asked for the lab originally she wouldn't pull e2, LH or FSH because she needed a diagnoses for add them.... so now she has it! I have an appointment to see the usual doc in June when she is back but I don't want to wait that long so I will beg for some labs via the phone. It sucks really because my normal doc is the type of person I can text and say hey I need to see you today at the office and she makes it happen, very understanding and pasionate, also will order any tests asked of her and RX any med asked for (within ethical reasoning of course).

Point being I wish she wasn't out until June as I would of already had most of my answers had she been there, I have the time line of wanting to start my cycle by June first Megatron so hopefully it's all settled by then and I can continue, and hopefully I can get on TRT to start feeling myself again. The one thing I was contemplating was jumping on self RX TRT just because I'm sick of feeling like shit. I will wait though until all the labs have done before I start anything though, I know it's best to wait it out so I can get the proper medical treatment.

Do you guys feel a lot better with your TT being in normal ranges? I bet I will start shedding BF quicker like I used too if I go that route.

 

[gruntwerk]

UDATE:

Doc called back and she told me because I'm only 29 she isn't comfortable pursuing this on her own and would like to refer me to an endocrinologist. This kinda stinks in a sense because the referral process will take awhile then I have to wait for that doc to do the labs, but on a good note I have a better chance of finding out exactly what's up this route. It's just frustrating.. I so badly want to just start pinning 150mg of test every week, I don't want to be stuck in this rut any longer. But I know if I start to self RX now then all my labs will be screwed and I'm sure they will pull another TT lab to make sure it isn't fluke, so if this one comes back at 500 they will say huh what's the issue unless I tell them what I did.... then they will likely say well then now we can't RX you anything.

Stinks..... but thanks for the support here fellas and I'm going to hang in there for answers, just hope it's quick.

 

[Megatron28]

Read the FAQs link in my signature. It will guide you on getting your own blood work done so you don't have to wait.

 

[halfwit]

Do NOT inject ANYTHING. You will really hose yourself during this time frame if you do. I hate when doctors get scared, but better scared than to take on something they don't understand.

You're not going to be cycling for awhile man. You need to address this, which is going to take some time, and at the minimum of six months before you're all dialed in and have enough time between blood tests to play.

Fix yourself first, then you can play.

 

[gruntwerk]

Read the FAQs link in my signature. It will guide you on getting your own blood work done so you don't have to wait.

You may not have seen it in my other threads, thought you would of because I mentioned it a million times but there's so many threads here it's hard to keep up for your gurus. Anyway... I live in NY... NY is a crappy commie state and not only have they ruined our gun laws but you cannot get ANY blood work in NY without a doctors order for it. There for Private MD labs and the like do not support NY customers and the closest one to me would be PA which is 6 hours one way to their location. Looking at a 14 hour mission there and not even sure if I can get away with it.... do they check your license or anything? Do you have to prove your residence when you use Private MD labs? Had they supported NY I would already had a full work up done.

 

[Megatron28]

You may not have seen it in my other threads, thought you would of because I mentioned it a million times but there's so many threads here it's hard to keep up for your gurus. Anyway... I live in NY... NY is a crappy commie state and not only have they ruined our gun laws but you cannot get ANY blood work in NY without a doctors order for it. There for Private MD labs and the like do not support NY customers and the closest one to me would be PA which is 6 hours one way to their location. Looking at a 14 hour mission there and not even sure if I can get away with it.... do they check your license or anything? Do you have to prove your residence when you use Private MD labs? Had they supported NY I would already had a full work up done.

Road trip!

 

[gruntwerk]

Road trip!

You've done labs with that company right? Question is do they require proof of residence or anything? Check your license to see what state it is or anything when you show up? I would hate to make the drive and then have them deny the drawing. I don't wanna call them and ask that question obviously, I'm sure they will say if you're from NY don't come. So yeah anyway what do they ask to see when you show up other than the printed slip?

 

[gruntwerk]

Do NOT inject ANYTHING. You will really hose yourself during this time frame if you do. I hate when doctors get scared, but better scared than to take on something they don't understand.

You're not going to be cycling for awhile man. You need to address this, which is going to take some time, and at the minimum of six months before you're all dialed in and have enough time between blood tests to play.

Fix yourself first, then you can play.

Yeah thanks man I will be patient, the way I see it now is that I probably have a lot more progress to make with just optimal TT levels. I will probably just hang out on TRT for a bit before I do the blast anyway just to see how I feel with good T levels and see what progress I make. Issue right now is I'm not impatient about the cycle, I'm feeling impatient about not starting TRT on my own. I know how much better I will feel so it's hard to resist, but I also know if I go that route then I won't be able to get a script for test anytime soon and most importantly I won't know what's actually causing the low TT. I just hope it goes quick, I really want to get normal TT levels... Hoping I shed BF quicker like I did a few years back.

 

[halfwit]

Yeah thanks man I will be patient, the way I see it now is that I probably have a lot more progress to make with just optimal TT levels. I will probably just hang out on TRT for a bit before I do the blast anyway just to see how I feel with good T levels and see what progress I make. Issue right now is I'm not impatient about the cycle, I'm feeling impatient about not starting TRT on my own. I know how much better I will feel so it's hard to resist, but I also know if I go that route then I won't be able to get a script for test anytime soon and most importantly I won't know what's actually causing the low TT. I just hope it goes quick, I really want to get normal TT levels... Hoping I shed BF quicker like I did a few years back.

Well, let me put it this way, I was 500lbs at about 55% body fat six years ago and had lost a huge amount of my lean mass from having low T for a very long time (10 years). It took starting from scratch, but I'm currently sitting at 335lbs at about 12% body fat. I'm 6'7", so the numbers might seem crazy, but a HUGE portion of that came from just TRT, and a burning desire to be who I was many years ago.

It's TOTALLY worth the wait to do it right.

I can answer for Tron as I've used the blood testing services from both privatemdlabs.com and Labsmd.com; they ask for your name and address (which you can put whatever) and the phlebotomist cannot (by law) ask you for ID. As I use my real information, I don't worry if they happen to ask (they haven't), but if they did - you can always say that you haven't updated your ID yet, or just tell them you don't need one.

It truly is a private test in every way, and is the best way to go about things when you do start cycling, to ensure everything is running optimally.

 

[halfwit]

Good gravy! What a wall of text to double post!

 

[gruntwerk]

Well, let me put it this way, I was 500lbs at about 55% body fat six years ago and had lost a huge amount of my lean mass from having low T for a very long time (10 years). It took starting from scratch, but I'm currently sitting at 335lbs at about 12% body fat. I'm 6'7", so the numbers might seem crazy, but a HUGE portion of that came from just TRT, and a burning desire to be who I was many years ago.

It's TOTALLY worth the wait to do it right.

I can answer for Tron as I've used the blood testing services from both privatemdlabs.com and Labsmd.com; they ask for your name and address (which you can put whatever) and the phlebotomist cannot (by law) ask you for ID. As I use my real information, I don't worry if they happen to ask (they haven't), but if they did - you can always say that you haven't updated your ID yet, or just tell them you don't need one.

It truly is a private test in every way, and is the best way to go about things when you do start cycling, to ensure everything is running optimally.

Wow you are a big dude!!!

Glad to hear about the testing, looks like I will just have to do the long haul to PA when I do cycle, maybe I'll consider going sooner if the referral takes too long. I'm going to call the office in the morning and keep the pressure on them to make sure the paperwork gets in as soon as possible for the whole referral process. I had pubertal gyno so I should have suspected something happened within my whole HPTA, I have a feeling I have always been low T and it just became worse as I got older and became less active. If I think back on it and how I felt even as a teen I likely had issues, I also have a begin cyst on one of my testicals. On top of that I was on long term opiate/opioid treatment after being injured in Iraq, I probably spent 2-3 years on Oxycodone that latered spiraled into heroin when the VA cut me off for trying to refill early.

Really cool to hear you came back from 500 pounds to now a healthy 12% BF, amazing accomplishment even with TRT.

 

[halfwit]

Wow you are a big dude!!!

Glad to hear about the testing, looks like I will just have to do the long haul to PA when I do cycle, maybe I'll consider going sooner if the referral takes too long. I'm going to call the office in the morning and keep the pressure on them to make sure the paperwork gets in as soon as possible for the whole referral process. I had pubertal gyno so I should have suspected something happened within my whole HPTA, I have a feeling I have always been low T and it just became worse as I got older and became less active. If I think back on it and how I felt even as a teen I likely had issues, I also have a begin cyst on one of my testicals. On top of that I was on long term opiate/opioid treatment after being injured in Iraq, I probably spent 2-3 years on Oxycodone that latered spiraled into heroin when the VA cut me off for trying to refill early.

Really cool to hear you came back from 500 pounds to now a healthy 12% BF, amazing accomplishment even with TRT.

Holy shit.

So a cyst on your testes, AND long-term opiate use? I'm primary hypogonadal because I had multiple knee surgeries back to back, and was on HUGE doses of opiods for several years. They didn't know this back then, and still many don't know this, but opiates DESTROY the leydig cells in your testes.

I could take a bazillion grams of clomid and nolvadex, and with an LH of a million, my nuts would just yawn. I suspect you may be in a similar situation. I spent years telling docs that I felt horrible, and it wasn't until the Internet opened my eyes to how my symptoms were low T based that I demanded a test.

The rest is history.